Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think that would be extremely hard to achieve in our political system. Referendums are still a novelty in our constitution. Even their implementation crashes headlong into the whole concept of parliamentary sovereignty. An open, honest discussion grounded in reality about expectations might work in the Swiss model where there are more referendums than you can shake a stick at, on narrow issues, all the time. But we have only attempted to use them on major constitutional questions that are highly contentious by nature.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That's not an excuse to stumble from chaotic event to chaotic event that could be absolutely foreseen, and blaming either people who voted to remain or the private sector for being unable to predict the outcome of wide ranging discussions years in advance.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Looks like the Brexiters are turning on Johnson. Perhaps blaming your friends was not the best of moves for Johnson?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...h-b959283.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You are in purist mode, jfman. We do not live in a perfect world where everything is black and white.

Most of us are able to judge the arguments people make for themselves. We either accept them or reject them. Then we decide.

That’s just how it works.

---------- Post added at 10:17 ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 ----------

I agree that this doesn’t move us forward, but when I raise the point in answer the the moans of the reluctant remainers that this was a democratic decision, others, including your good self, keep making excuses about the way in which the debate was conducted. I am simply saying we need to accept that decision and the fact that Brexit has happened.

Instead of dwelling on the angst that remainers still feel about losing the argument, and the persistent cries of ‘We told you so’ from them when anything goes wrong, it would be rather more constructive if we turned our attention to how we addressed these transitional issues.

You don’t solve problems by constantly moaning about them and looking backwards. That won’t get us anywhere.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I’m not even sure the point you are making, OB. Other than to seek to absolve the government of any responsibility for governing.

I have - I’m indeed at pains to stress I don’t see the value in rehashing the same debates over and over.

Perhaps there would be no cries of “we told you so” if indeed we had mitigated against foreseeable problems? If legitimate concerns of the transition - coming to fruition - weren’t dismissed as “remoaners” by those in favour that had no solutions.

I agree it won’t get anyone, anywhere. However it suits one side of the argument - the leave side - to bog everyone down in nationalistic hubris rather than own the problems arising from their haphazard implementation of one of the biggest policy shifts in any of our lifetimes.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Carth walks into the playground.

Looks over at the (not so) merry-go-round and decides it's a waste of time.

Glances towards the big slide, where business leaders are queuing up for their turn on the slope towards lower profit margins.

Heads towards the swings, but turns away when he notices that those sitting on the swings are lazily waiting for someone else to push them.

Carth slowly wanders back home, passing all the fully fueled cars that haven't moved for a week, and smiles as he passes the chap from the council who's carefully spraying yellow circles around the same pot holes they fixed last year.

Aint life grand :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What the Brexit-voting bosses of Next, Wetherspoons and Iceland are seeking is a plan.

Since 2016, we have been discussing this point off and on as I saught to look forward and move beyond stale arguments. All I've ever heard has been wait and see.

I was less patient than these Brexiters but now they've caught up with reality and are asking that very question. That's a big step change.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Next: Production problems in Asia, and shipping problems from there to here.
Wetherspoons; Got rid of his staff, who are now returning that level of loyalty.
Iceland: No idea, but probably a mixture of the two above.

:p:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Wrong, but I'm sure Johnson would give you a pat on the back for trying to save his. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm sure he would, it's as good as Boris insinuating that the breakaway european super league was something to do politics and how the Tories prevented it... :p:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Was he wearing an England shirt over his suit at the time? :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Care to explain where what I wrote was 'wrong', and give your version?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Next don’t think the shipping problems are negatively affecting their business

https://www.business-live.co.uk/reta...simon-21713000

Wetherspoons - agreed

Iceland - no supporting evidence

At best, you’re half-right… ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Adding 2% to their shipping costs doesn't help, but I guess some people don't think that's a negative :shrug:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58731504