Cable Forum - Corbyn's kerfuffle

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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Plus 20 million Russians.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35835197)

Seems certain areas of the Labour party are grasping at anything to try and get at Corbyn. The fact he suspended KL the same day isn't enough. The tv pictures of John Mann attacking KL seemed very orchestrated with the TV cameras conveniently there. They've never accepted the overwhelming result of the leadership election - however that's democracy, even if it means your own chances of power are less. One member, one vote, and that includes MPs.

Apparently the exchange took place outside the Westminster Media/TV studio area (where the BBC, ITV and Sky have their studios), a place teeming with cameras and people who can use them. IIRC the BBC lady that filmed part of it (an ITV staffer caught the rest) was literally popping out for coffee when it happened.

EDIT: Here's Chris Ship (ITV deputy political editor) explaining what went on

https://www.facebook.com/chrisshipit...7582798851660/

Quote:

Given a fair few conspiracy theorists on *another* social media platform have been claiming we set up the Ken Livingstone/John Mann car crash today, I thought I'd set out here what *actually* happened (as opposed to what some people seem to think did happen).

ITV News had asked Ken Livingstone for an interview after his chat by phone on BBC Radio in which he first made his Hitler/Zionist claims. He said he would talk to us and he was on his way to the Westminster studios where ITV, BBC, Sky are based.

Our camera duly awaited his arrival, and when he did, John Mann came up to him and started shouting. You can hear how it unfolded live - as Ken was on LBC Radio at the time.

Our camera recorded what unfolded in front of us. End of. I call it reporting. It's what we do.

We didn't invite John Mann to turn up. We had not spoken to him beforehand. We didn't collude with him.

If one Labour MP wants to shout at another Labour politician in the street outside the studios where we have lots of cameras (one of which was waiting for Ken Livingstone anyhow) then that is his choice.

And it wouldn't be a very good sort of news cameraman who didn't follow the shouting as it continued inside the building.

At that point, other cameras and iPhones started to roll.

And after Ken had subsequently appeared on BBC Daily Politics, 5 Live, BBC News Channel there was - by that time - a phalanx of cameras waiting for him to leave the building.

And they all followed him out.

That's what actually happened today. If people want to indulge themselves in other theories - they are more than welcome.

But they are wrong ...

SECOND EDIT: Apparently John Mann was in the building to speak to Sky News.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35835216)

I have to admit, I've never heard the planned killing of 6 million people (along with 6 million gay people, priests, gypsies, people with mental or physical disabilities, communists, trade unionists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, anarchists, Poles and other Slavic peoples, and resistance fighters) described as 'a change of circumstances' before...:shocked:

There wasn't originally a "planned killing". That came later as a result of the "change of circumstances". It wasn't a planned killing just for the sake of it. After all they were kept alive, although not in good conditions. There were even a large number of survivors(over a million) and iirc the biggest group of survivors were the German Jews, who I would have thought would have been first on the list to be killed.

The 6 million refers just to Jews, the others amounted to 5 million and are largely forgotten unless they have a special interest grouping, eg gay, gypsies. A lot of the Poles and Slavs were killed there and then and not kept in camps. How many of those survived, I'm not sure.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

I must say, this made me chuckle:

http://news.sky.com/story/1688191/an...abour-campaign

(it's the last video clip right at the bottom of the article)

:D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

There are strong rumours going about that, some Labour MPs, are going to oust Corbyn.

I think that Corbyn is too soft, with Cameron and should go.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Been sort of away for a bit so haven't seen too much of this thread when it comes to the anti-Semitism thing but it really is upsetting. I am not exactly surprised there are anti-semites or at least people who, in their ignorance, invoke anti-semitic tropes but what is disgraceful is the defence of it from so many people. I have seen far too many people defending Ken Livingstone in the last week to the point it's making me actually angry to an extent that doesn't really happen much.

The original Labour MP who retweeted the tweet I can forgive (although that isn't my place). She made what seemed a genuine apology (even more so when you read the passages Labour HQ edited out referencing anti-semitism) and somebody retweeting something without considering it isn't exactly unheard of. Whatever. But Ken Livingstone's comments where terrible and he keeps defending them and so do many in the Labour party.

I can't really articulate how angry this whole thing makes me. Expect to say that many of there people would, rightfully, never accept this kind of thing directed at Muslims or others but there is a massive blindspot to anti-semitism as if it doesn't exist. They do the same thing of pretending that it's actually only about 'zionism' but then use terms like 'Zionist media' as if the idea that Jewish people control the media (or other things) isn't one of the oldest and nastiest conspiracies in the book.

Livingstone should be kicked out. People who defend what he said should be kicked out. The party should make clear statements opposing this kind of thing without equivocation. No 'it's bad but' nonsense, clear condemnations.

/rant

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

What Livingstone and his ilk have done is make an objective debate of the rights & wrongs of Israel's policies far more difficult.

How can raising the subject of Hitler when discussing Jews not be offensive? Why else did he mention him except to offend ..

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

The thing is, this would not be as much of a story as it is if Ken Livingstone had managed to keep his great big trap shut for once.

If he's not thrown out of the party (again) then Labour is finished.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Red Ken is the embodiment of a loose cannon and if he'd been of the right his political career would have been brief.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35835793)

There seem to be two extremes to the Labour party. One that makes criticism of a group impossible by being overtly bigoted against them, causing guilt by association for want of a better phrase, and another that makes criticism of a group impossible by describing any criticism of that group as bigotry and acting as apologists for them - see Diane Abbot, et al, amongst others, for that side.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

That pretty much sums up the British Left.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35836229)

That pretty much sums up the British Left.

So is anyone going to sum up the Tory right? They aren't anything to be proud of either.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Indeed they are both as bad as each other in my book and only by parties being rooted in the centre ground of politics will parties ever be elected to government in my opinion..

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35836306)

So is anyone going to sum up the Tory right? They aren't anything to be proud of either.

I agree. However, mortifying as it is conservatives, small c, seem to own liberalism far more than than the fake progressives on the left do. The Conseratives in power seem to regard 1984 as a blue print on many levels, but genuine conservatives seem to have far more liberal attitudes towards many things than many on the left, even those perceived as 'mainstream'.

I'm pretty sure social democracy wasn't this way at one point. The red card in my pocket burns a hole more and more all the time.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle

For me, it seems to be that politicians now want to be seen to be "doing things", and any attempt to reduce their powers for "doing things" is seen as something that must not be done.