Re: Coronavirus
 

Can we please also when in a supermarket, not stand over staff stacking shelves when asking for stuff.

My niece works part time in Asda, some people do stand away from them, but others do stand too close.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So now they are concerned about those that attended the Cheltenham Festival. Sorry but they've only got their own stupidity to blame.

Re: Coronavirus
 

"During the emergency period, no person may participate in a gathering in a public place of more than two people except..."

Is there a law that contradicts this?

Re: Coronavirus
 

you still need maintain social distancing within that gathering.....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why on Earth are you still whinging about nothing? :rolleyes:

For goodness sake the Kinnocks did nothing wrong - they stayed within the law, not that any law defines how long someone stays when delivering items to a vulnerable age group. You need to stop going on about a non-issue, non-law breaking incident.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Under what law? Not The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020, as far as I can see.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Person 1 from family A goes out and meets Person 2 from family B at the shops and does not maintain social distancing.

Person 1 is carrying the virus however is asymptomatic.

Due to not social distancing, the virus has increased risk of transmission via shedding.

Person 2 goes back to their family unit and potentially transmits to another person in their family (lets call them person 2a)

Person 2a is asymptomatic goes out and repeats the process inc not social distancing.

By maintaining social distancing regardless you minimise the risk of chains of transmission.


It's not exactly rocket science. Or perhaps you would like a law to assist you with common sense?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

The latest figures are up for discussion.

https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status...97879311814656

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status...18376178667524

Re: Coronavirus
 

Can I go first? Nobody said Coronavirus killed them.

Also, that’s just hospital deaths - not care home or at home deaths.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wow, I've been wondering if I had the virus late Jan/early Feb because I had a very atypical chest infection and according to Neil Ferguson, Notts/Derby could have been early hotspots. Non-productive cough, high temperature and now I read here about muscle pain in chest - I had that too, thought I'd strained my intercostal muscles coughing. I'd love to know if I actually had it, if I did, it was luckily very mild.

Re: Coronavirus
 

unless you are from the same household.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The BBC is being generally quite careful in its wording now, usually stating that “x people have died *in hospital* *with* coronavirus”.

It is very likely that people have also died at home. It is very likely that some people have died *of* coronavirus, and not just with it as a factor.

None of this really matters as long as the way the statistics are compiled remains consistent. The only way we can get an accurate view of the progress of the pandemic in the UK is a consistent count of hospital deaths where coronavirus is present.

It is also worth stating - again - that coronavirus by itself kills very, very few people. The vast majority of people who contract it and then die were already so ill that they would have been likely to die in the not too distant future anyway. This is cold comfort for them and their loved ones, but for everyone else it should help keep things in perspective.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm afraid I've already got COVID apathy.

Cases and deaths will continue to increase for at least the next month, so everyday being told they have, is no surprise and it shouldn't be.

---------- Post added at 14:39 ---------- Previous post was at 14:37 ----------

This is why we need the "have you had it" tests, sooner we have them the sooner things will go back to normal as those that can prove they've had it can go back to a normal life.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The problem with the above mentioned Act is that because it was an Emergency Bill, it did not go through proper months of scrutiny that tries to address all the potential loop holes and grey areas.

We're told we can do once piece of exercise a day, the law doesn't say you cannot whilst doing that exercise, we should not sit down on a park bench to rest, drive to places to do said exercises.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But do we know for sure that if we've had it we have immunity? At least for a while? I wouldn't want to take risks under a false sense of security.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's the worry. If people get fed up and don't follow the advice any longer this could go on for a long time. Already we've seen traffic going back up.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If I'm right, I think this was part of the thinking behind not going in to lockdown too early . . people become bored/complacent, and then start to move around at the very time they shouldn't be :shrug:

Re: Coronavirus
 

The law states -

6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

6. - (2) gives a list that includes why you can be out including exercise. The list is non-exhaustive. It comes down to interpretation of what is reasonable or not. If the officer believes it is not reasonable that you have got in your car and travelled a distance to go and exercise when you could walk out your door and exercise, then the officer can use 6. - (1) and you would have to fight it in court.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well according to Michael Gove going to the allotment is ok, so that's my exercise covered. That veg could come in useful.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You could barter it for loo roll.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think it's quite safe to say the calm before the storm is just about to end.

Please take extra care folks this is about to kick off big time in the next 24/48 hrs .The doubling effect seams to be taking hold every 24hrs rather than every 3/4 days now.

Peace .

Re: Coronavirus
 

100,000 tests a day by the end of the month. Fingers crossed.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lets hope so.

And a £13.4bn historic NHS debt has been written off.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So that’s still not a specific law that does not say you cannot go to a place and then exercise.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They cant list everything that someone might invent to get around the rules. It doesn't say I can't go to a supermarket that's 100 miles away, but anyone doing that when they have got a supermarket 2 miles away would have a hard time fighting it in court.

The law that is in place now, while it could be worded better, is enough to still fine people for doing something like driving to a place to exercise. Whether people agree with that is a different matter.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's not that I would contravene any restrictions, I'm just sick of hearing about it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The fact you’ve said it could be worded better, is a technicality that could throw a case out of court. My point still stands. Time for you to move on.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ok Mick, I'll move on, shame you can't have a debate about something.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The hardest part of the Coronavirus is this.

My family and close friend know if they need me call and I'll come running.

But now I can't, give my sister a hug as we are both worrying about our mother, and self isolatating.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Current death rate curve closely matches the expected (male) curve and since us men seem more affected by COVID-19 that's expected.
Seems to show that while we do want to control spread especially because of load on NHS and protecting those we can it's not causing more deaths in the population generally.
I also guess that with the current "lockdown" there could be fewer deaths from things like traffic incidents, climbing etc.
---
At some point I'll want to get to Costco. Yes it's a drive to get there but since it's a bulk buy a single trip out to do that is statistically better than lots of smaller trips. Nice message from them that executive member can visit during trade period.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I guess I'm lucky that I live 5 minutes from the local beach.Sadly not everyone does have a wide open space on their doorstep.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They are also opening an hour earlier for members who are in the Emergency Services, until the 5th April.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's not that I don't want to debate something but I don't want an issue to keep festering on that it just becomes an argument that annoys others and like Paul says, the same members should not be arguing with each other, when it is just us rambling, it's not a debate.

I have my interpretations of the Corona virus Act, it has it's flaws, you've also pretty much admitted this too by commenting on it's wording. Another member has commented on the application of Common Sense.

I think it has perfect common sense for people to, get in their car, "alone" or with someone from their household. Drive to a remote location to do their exercising as they are still self isolating.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Driving to a remote spot for self isolation exercise is great until everyone decides to drive to the same remote spot. We had horrendous problems up here in the LL&T national park with the whole of Glasgow driving out here for exercise on the first weekend of lockdown. The national park had to lock the car parks to put a stop to it and the police are doing regular patrols to make sure people aren’t just dumping their cars on the narrow roads and forestry tracks. The issue isn’t with any one car coming up here, it’s that once one does it everyone feels entitled and then you have a crowd of people who aren’t self isolated at all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think there was a great quote used by the Chancellor attributed to Voltaire "Perfect is the enemy of good" when talking about the legislation.
Everyone accepts that the legislation is not as polished as something that's received more scrutiny and time, but it's far better than no legislation.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The problem with "common sense" is that, unfortunately, for a sizeable minority, it isn't that common.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Then it is not a remote spot is it, if it is a popular place and plenty of people go there, the very idea of going for a remote exercise, going to random remote areas, is knowing there will be no other people there and that is my point Chris. Perfectly possible to sustain self isolation.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s 25 miles outside the city in a location that has the reputation of being isolated, because it’s at the end of a no-through road. I absolutely agree, if you know a secret isolated spot where you won’t meet anyone, knock yourself out, enjoy it - if it’s that out of the way, the police won’t find you anyway. The problem is with places that everyone believes to be isolated, and it’s not until they all show up at once and break the all-time visitor record (as happened here, and at other national park locations around the UK) that trouble brews.

The limitation with using primary legislation to try to manage this is that there’s no safe legal definition of what is isolated and what isn’t. If it were necessary to have such laws permanently (thankfully it won’t be), then they would end up with a massive Schedule to the Act listing locations, because there would be no other legally watertight way to do it. As we don’t have any of that, it’s not surprising that there are continuing disagreements over what is allowed, what should be allowed, and how the police enforce it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's not the self isolating that is the issue, the more people that want to get in their car means more fuel they'll need, more chance of needing breakdown or emergency services which could put more strain on the NHS.

I get it's not a nice situation to be in but it's for the greater good, we need to try and stop the spread and protect the NHS so it doesn't get overloaded. I dare say the majority of people don't need to get in their car, they just want to.

It seems the message just isn't getting through to people though. I work in a supermarket and I'm seeing the same regulars who come in everyday or every other day still coming in as usual. I understand not everyone can afford a full shop once a week but it would help if they were only buying essentials.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The PM has just said on Twitter that he has to remain in isolation due to his health.

This is one of the reasons why I think it would be better to have a coalition Government or a group of senior people from the Tory party to run the country. This is too much for one person to deal with, especially when they could be out of action, in full or in part, due to the virus.

It was done in the world war and this is effectively a war too.

Re: The daily updates. Does anyone think it a coincidence that the podium that they use has yellow, red and blue to show the messages that they want to get across? I'm wondering if this is to subtly show that the main parties are as one with this?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ringing his advisors every day asking "is it safe to come out yet?" :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Boris being absent doesn't really change anything which says a lot, but Labour will have a new leader tomorrow. I don't think we need a coalition, we still need someone to bring the Govt. to account, about why we are in such a poor position to fight this thing.

The daily conferences are a joke with journalists only allowed to ask a question, they then ignore and then answer the question they'd have liked to have been asked. The journalist get little chance for comeback, as they would if they were if the same room, i think they are just put on mute !

Re: Coronavirus
 

We have a group of senior people running the country. The Cabinet, supported by the Civil Service.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Queen is to address the nation this weekend on Sunday at 8pm.

Re: Coronavirus
 

She can't bump Antiques Roadshow off the schedules, it'll be the final straw for the pensioners...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Usually the Queens speeches l think are generally around 10 minutes long so l am sure the pensioners will be able to bear it if the TAR starts 10 minutes late Mr K.;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Last year we were 2nd on the list of countries best prepared for a Global Pandemic. Germany was 14th. Italy was 126th out of 195 on "Emergency Response Operation Indicator". Nobody was or could really be prepared. Eg tests can't be in place for something that didn't exist at the time.



The policies used have been in place for years, based upon scientific evidence gathered from around the world on past epidemic and pandemics.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Department of Health and Social Care have just released their latest updated figures.

https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status...60747727294466

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...3-605-11967903

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

What a laugh. I knew it was Chief Regime Apologist Adler as soon as I read your snippets - she’s only two sentences in and setting up straw man arguments so she can have a go at ‘eurosceptics’.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As a former Liebour voter I don't want Steptoe any where near power.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Another Labour MP for who the rules and the law don't apply.
Link

And to cap it all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not an issue as of tomorrow.
( Anyway, Old Man Steptoe was a Tory !)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Stop making things up Richard. He said that although he feels well he has to remain in isolation as he still has a temperature.

Re: Coronavirus
 

He is doing what he should do as whether its the PM or a member of the public one should self isolate for 14 days.

It would not look good on any politician if they ignored that.

---------- Post added at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was at 18:57 ----------

The wonderful Wilfrid Brambell.:D:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's only 7 days if you have symptoms. Though obviously longer if you still have them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not sure how Green Flag, RAC or AA transpose on to the NHS? But why stop the bandwagon.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I do not "make things up" as you rudely say. What I said was what was put out by the BBC news earlier today.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Because the more people interact (and the breakdown services would interact with multiple people per day sorting their breakdown), the more the virus spreads, increasing the load in the NHS?

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1585940072

Re: Coronavirus
 

The issue of going somewhere in a car to excercise has been clarified by the Health Secretary as per the BBC 6PM news.

He said that there had been some confusion over this and went on to say that it was permissable to drive somewhere if it was five minutes away, but that Government advice was for people to stay as close to home as possible*.

It was also said that people can travel to work, but only if they aren't able to work from home.

* This does not include Wales, where the police are taking a far stricter approach. This was referred to later on in the bulletin.

Re: Coronavirus
 

how many flat/buggered car batteries are there going to be?

I've been self isolating and my cars not moved only started and let run for a few minutes.

Monday I can finally go out and shop for food, so my car will get a bit of a run. but I reckon anut 100 miles in the next 12 weeks instead of 2,000 miles.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If all I get out of this is a flat battery and terrible hair, I'll settle for that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The more people that defy the stay at home message and do what they want, there could be more chance of breakdowns. They come out to you, they might give it to you or vice versa. Either one of you then takes it home, then you go shopping and give it to a lot more people, some who might need hospital admissions. That's the whole point of the stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives, message. Put too much strain on the NHS and it will cost lives.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why not go straight to the source. It tells a different story.

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/sta...42407973662721

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m sure the breakdown recovery person can fix the car with the car owner a suitable distance away. Like I say not the biggest concern in these times.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'M with green flag,they have told members if their car needs transporting they will have to stay inside it to protect green flag workforce.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A car battery should last around a couple of months, potentially longer, before dying, if not used.

---------- Post added at 09:07 ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 ----------

As hypotheses go, it’s thin.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Point missed completely.

The point of Social Distancing is not to reduce the chance of infection to zero (because that’s impossible), but to minimise the risk of infection; doing anything unnecessary that raises the risk of infection is being selfish, and being bored of something is not a valid rsason for putting others lives at risk, and increasing the workload of an already overstretched Health Service.

---------- Post added at 09:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 ----------

I didn’t realise you were an expert in Epidemiology.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Is there ANYTHING CF members WON'T argu...debate about?

Re: Coronavirus
 

No point wasn’t missed.

All I’m saying is. % that are infected + % Going out in car + % then breaking down + % that call breakdown service + % that don’t distance themselves whilst car being worked on + % that infect recovery man.

Like I say, it’s thin.

Nope just an expert in reality, and perspective

---------- Post added at 09:32 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------

Absolutely not,

Re: Coronavirus
 

I disagree. But let's say everyone takes the same view as you, where do we stand as the lockdown would be pointless.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well you have people that think it's okay to drive somewhere for their exercise. So yeah I think we do need to argue certain points when there's so much stupidity about.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wasn’t disagreeing that people shouldn’t go out, of course they shouldn’t, I am just sceptical of your direct correlation of going out in the car + breakdown recovery service = NHS overload.

People need to calm the funk down.

---------- Post added at 10:36 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

I live in semi-rural area, and since lockdown the road (a long country lane) that I live on has never, ever been busier. There are people walking, and cycling and driving all the time. Not people from out of town but people just from the local area out for their walk.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's possible that for many people their local area is generally more busy, so they have to seek out slightly more remote places.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You only need to be 2m apart. Just excuses mainly. Other than that, stay in and do excercies.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So you believe people should stay in. But people aren't staying in and the more people that don't stay in, especially when they see other people doing it, the more will go out. The more that go out, the chance of spreading becomes greater. The chance that spreading becomes greater, the more chance people need hospital treatment. Also those that are involved in crashes. My argument is based on people not doing as they should. The more people that go out the greater the risk. You shouldn't be sceptical of it, it's how it spreads.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you have a garden then there's no excuse to go out for a drive to do exercise. Same with an A&E Doctor saying do not do DIY, climb ladders, or allowing kids to play on trampolines etc etc. I would say common sense but then there's always some that 'think they' know better.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'll be mowing the front & rear lawns today, that's probably way too much exercise for a bloke in my condition*







* one or a few large Brandies last night :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Don’t do DIY?

Do you know how many husbands that are in receipt of a jobs list as long their arm?

Myself included.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Now you have the perfect excuse.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Modern car batteries can go flat in as little as two weeks. Stop start batteries are the worst affected

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lol, hope you got back home last night ok. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Woke up in my own bed . . . a vast improvement over the strange hedges I woke under during my youth ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

l won't ask how you ended up there as the mind boggles.:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Like these?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Quite possibly Hugh, although my view was from the ground upwards, with a hangover, . . . and the rustle of multi-legged 'things' exploring this strange body laid comatose in their domain :shocked:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Can but rare, I’ve never come back from 2weeks holiday to a flat battery, and I doubt that many do.

If it’s a worry take it for a spin around the block every few days.

Re: Coronavirus
 

17 years and 2.5 million posts. So, no. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

On a more serious note it looks like we are about a week away from hitting the peak of the curve and these figures might suggest that.

https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status...22545840119810

Re: Coronavirus
 

I disagree... ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Two weeks I would agree in some cases, but this is likely to go on for I would of thought for at least another three weeks. A spin around the block is not likely to do much good and could possibly deplete the battery further. Then you have (if driving a diesel) the DPF etc to consider also

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some interesting analysis by the Economist (of all places!) looking at the excess deaths in Spain and Italy against the long term trend of expected deaths. These are far in excess of the given Coronavirus figures (and obviously it captures deaths where they don’t have it, for example a car crash could have fatalities as a result of no ICU beds or where treatment isn’t available for usually treatable conditions).

However, what would be interesting to see is if someone followed the trends after Coronavirus - would the “they would probably have died anyway/underlying health condition” line stack up in which case we would see a decrease in deaths for around 12 months. Or would it simply be a line that politicians have trotted out that became disproven over time by statistics.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/b...navirus-2020-4

Re: Coronavirus
 

Shunt fuse if it has one (prominent on french cars, any vehicle with a BSI supplied by PSA Group). Doesn't need changed back until needed for full time use. It'll just keep resetting the dash and won't open with the fob after it shuts down. Depending on country or origin. Park/Parc. The current fuse position would be in client mode.

Alternatively - Dealer mode/shutdown/transport is activated via software in the dash in newer model cars. Manufacturers have steps dotted about for models.

Then there's ones of course that are completely unusable without a proprietary tool/software

Re: Coronavirus
 

Surely deaths from not getting chemotherapy (and similar) in time will go up. These don't rely on ICU beds.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Swedish Government are seeking the emergency powers required to introduce a lockdown.

https://www.dw.com/en/sweden-mulls-u...ons/a-53020024

---------- Post added at 09:44 ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 ----------

Yes, as hospitals become overwhelmed with the Covid-19 response this will undoubtedly impact other treatments and wider mortality rates.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nothing like ignoring your own governments advice it seems..

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/new...edic-covid-19/

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-04-04/...g-second-home/

Re: Coronavirus