Re: Brexit
 

Exactly.

Re: Brexit
 

This site will just confirm the very clear evidence of the earlier post in this thread as its a impartial and respected site.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...esult-16-years

Re: Brexit
 

been happening since the very first 'Brexit' thread on here . . . it's all been 99% whataboutery from both sides :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

I totally agree that in category terms, Westminster is “elections that matter” and Strasbourg is ... well, not. Kind of surprised to see you admitting it though. :D

However, there isn’t going to be a Westminster general election until 2022 unless the Tories think they can win one and Labour agrees to dissolve Parliament. There is however going to be a Strasbourg election in May, which is as close as we are going to get to a second referendum on Brexit. Given everything that has happened in our politics this year, I’d say these Euro-elections warrant a one-off, guest appearance in the “elections that matter” category ...

Re: Brexit
 

People tend to forget the amount of influence the leaders of the 28 nations have when it comes to EU direction of travel.

Re: Brexit
 

I think it's all about the pressure a strong vote for the Brexit Party in the Euros will apply to the current Government.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes, well it wouldn't have been an omnishambles had Labour honoured its manifesto commitment and voted either for the deal or 'no deal'. Instead, they've just played games and tried to trip up the government at every turn.

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

I know, it is not appropriate that either side should tell bare faced lies, but my earlier post was added to counter Hugh's list of 'leavers' lies' and your comment that I am not interested in balance. Yet that is exactly what I was attempting to do!

But time and time again, remainers say that Brexiteers did not know what they were voting for, and every time they retort 'But we DID know what we were voting for!'. The confusion really does seem to be predominently on the remainer side, and given that they voted remain anyway, the lies that are being complained about had no practical effect other than making the remainers even more entrenched in their views. Whereas, in the main, Brexiteers are completely unmoved.

---------- Post added at 19:31 ---------- Previous post was at 19:27 ----------

And because it is a link from Brexit Central, it is automatically discredited. Maybe you should actually concentrate and respond to the information contained therein!

But of course, you can't, can you?

Just to repeat, my post was to draw attention to the lies told by the remainers to counter Hugh's list of lies told by the brexiteers.

Touche.

---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

Although the poll draws attention to the disillusionment of Conservative voters due to Brexit not having been achieved on time, it should not be forgotten that the Brexit Party will also have a severe impact on Labour. The Brexit debate has split both major parties to such a degree that they need to agree between them a way of delivering a proper Brexit without further delay. Time for Corbyn to show some guts and recognise reality. Insisting on the Customs Union will not cut the mustard because it takes away our ability to have our own trade policy on goods and services, which is the only way we can prosper when we leave.

---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

It's the EU bureaucracy that put forward the legislation to be voted on, not the member states or MEPs. That is not true democracy, I'm sorry to tell you.

---------- Post added at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

When Corbyn finally realises the support for the Brexit Party is also coming from many of his own supporters, he will suddenly realise that a second referendum is superfluous.

Re: Brexit
 

Christ this is tiresome, how many times do we have to go over this. Citations for your quotes would have helped although I do recognise most of them.

we could, still can, choose whatever path we want if we had a government and Parliament that backed the nation. The fact we have neither doesn’t invalidate the statement.

It probably would be, but we won’t know until we leave, we haven’t left yet and therefore have not even got to the stage of negotiating an FTA.

an FTA would give us access to th Single Market but see above.

Well there wouldn’t be a UK-German deal, The would be a UK-EU deal

I’d need a citation for this as David Davies knows how the EU works I’d be very surprised if he said that.

Re: Brexit
 

wrong again he has no idea how it worked


David Davis
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The first calling point of the UK's negotiator immediately after #Brexit will not be Brussels, it will be Berlin, to strike a deal

10:50 AM - 26 May 2016

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

David Davis is certainly one famous leaver who didn't know what he was voting for!

Re: Brexit
 

All irrelevant. Davis is no longer Brexit secretary and Brexit has not occurred yet. You (And others) really need to stop this petty arguing all the time Hugh, and this constant "I have prove they're wrong" via a google search mentality, getting sick of it to be frank. :rolleyes:

In other news - I'm pondering that we should have a nice break from all this repetitive Groundhog day nonsense, day in, day out, that goes on in this thread and I will be closing this thread at some point, probably after midnight tonight, until Tuesday morning, so we can have a nice Easter break from Brexit chatter. The weather is going to be lovely. :Sun:

Re: Brexit
 

And let me be the first to wish you, and everyone on the thread, a Happy Easter. The world won’t move on between now and then, bar some opinion pieces. I’m sure we will equally disagree next week anyway!

Re: Brexit
 

FFS just rhetoric.

---------- Post added at 23:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:50 ----------

Fair enough, can’t argue with that.

but I didn’t see any of those tweets as i’m Not on Twitter ( and it would seem I knew more about the rules of Brexit than the Brexit secretary) I also don’t recall hearing any of that that from him on mainstream media so I don’t know how much that would have influenced the great unwashed ignorant swath of the population who were duped into voting leave.

---------- Post added at 23:05 ---------- Previous post was at 23:04 ----------

Looks that way.

---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------

I’ll vote for that.

Might as well close it until October 30th as sod all will change between now and then.

Re: Brexit
 

After a bit of a break-Thread Re-Opened. As we were....

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Aww but it was so peaceful....:D

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https://news.sky.com/story/technolog...ument-11696337

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Buzzword bingo!

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Beware of geeks sharing lifts... ;)

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How on earth do we or anybody else, currently manage imports from other countries without all that? Yet another Remain tactic. Any procedures set in place would also have to be in place in the rest of the EU AND possibly any other country that has a customs union with the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Here’s the (very) high level slide pack...

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Last two.

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Looks like a massive money 'sink hole' to me, simply to check goods going in/out on the border between North/South.

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Re: Brexit
 

What do we think of the Brexit Party picking up some pace?

Re: Brexit
 

It was a great idea to have an Easter break. :tu:

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 ----------

You've nailed Brexit for me there! ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Indeed it was.:tu:

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Yes, praise the Lord for Easter, so to speak.

I'm sure he'd have been a Remainer. Peace and loving your neighbour and all that ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Could have sworn he was a rebel who went against the evil empire.

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Can it be locked again until parliament an at least come up with an idea. It will remain the merry-go-round until then.

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And actually the Romans deposed Herod because of his cruelty, and it was better after they imposed direct rule...

Re: Brexit
 

The Nazis were fantastic Engineers too.

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and a Socialist :)

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And in the next fairy tale...

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But it's a good one..

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Nah, only a fool would believe it.

Re: Brexit
 

One of many mistakes and misinterpretations in the Bible. The word 'camel' is actually a mis-translation of 'rope', which makes you wonder how many other mistakes were made, given how obvious this mistake should have been to the translators.And it has been re-translated on a number of occasions.

It should also be borne in mind that the Bible is not a contemporaneous work. The writing of it took place some generations later, after being passed down from fathers to sons over those generations, with no doubt an unimaginable amount of magic and thrills embroidered into the stories to entertain the children.

Believe it if you like, but it was written by man. So is 'The Sun' by the way, and I take what I read in there with a pinch of salt as well!

So don't expect me to be impressed by your divine references!. :D

---------- Post added at 18:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:33 ----------

Well, my point of view on Brexit has not changed. Show me where there exists a pool of Brexit supporters who feel they were misled and would have voted differently. This silly argument does not hold up. We've had the promise, we've had the vote. Now it's time to implement.

Re: Brexit
 

Oops - Change UK - The Independent Group, launched it's European Elections campaign today, along with it's MEP Candidates, they say they are standing on the commitment to change British politics, yet within hours was already suffering it's first resignation due to one of it's candidates saying he wants Brexit if it stops Romanian pickpockets.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8882876.html

Re: Brexit
 

This is what I meant by confused remainers! :D

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Yeah turn the other cheek and love for your neighbour have no place in the clever person's world

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Re: Brexit
 

Anne Widdecombe has resigned from the Tory party to join and stand as a candidate for Farrages party, citing that the way Brexit has been handled has made us a laughing stock.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48034732

Never thought i'd see her defect.

Re: Brexit
 

Well she defected from C of E to RC, so she's got form as a troublemaker ;)

Re: Brexit
 

On the contrary, it shows she is truly a religious/social/political conservative. It is perceived social liberalism in the C of E that has resulted in a number of defections to Rome, and it is the Conservative PM's failure to deliver on a referendum called as a result of Conservative policy and whose outcome clearly still enjoys very widespread support amongst Conservative voters (as well as others) that has caused her to jump ship now.

A phrase I often hear grassroots Tories recite at times like this is 'I never left the party, the party left me'.

On the other hand, doing Strictly and Big Brother ... they show off her form as a troublemaker. :D

Re: Brexit
 

Yes probably why Tony Blair went RC too !

I can see why the Archbishop of Canterbury going on about poverty and food banks, has upset some Conservatives. They'll have women priests and treat them as equals next !

Re: Brexit
 

It shows that she can think for herself rather than mindlessly following the crowd.

Re: Brexit
 

Isn't that exactly what she has done?

Re: Brexit
 

No.

And whoever keeps bringing religion on to this topic. - Pack it in!!! :dozey:

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Re: Brexit
 

May is just completely inept. Even outside of Brexit-related issues, what has she got right?

Re: Brexit
 

A pretty spot on analysis..

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Re: Brexit
 

I suspect you're Norman Tebbit in disguise. A very perfidious, hegemonic bloke ;)

Re: Brexit
 

you know know the backstop was a uk proposal right and a no deal breaks the good Friday agreement and US have warned if that broke no trade deal

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.dad515e4d187

Re: Brexit
 

Link


The real sticking point is the "to apply unless and until an alternative arrangement implementing another scenario is agreed,", which means we are held hostage by the EU. How inept can you get?

Re: Brexit
 

that's the problem no one has any workable idea yet for alternative arrangement the biggest problem with Brexit always has been and still is the Ireland border

Re: Brexit
 

The Ireland border is just a pathetic scapegoat for Remainers to use.

No-one wants a hard border, no-ones going to build one, not Ireland, not Northern Ireland, not the EU, not the UK. See - how easy was that ? :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

What about the imports and exports, with phylosanitary certificates and potential future taxation and H&S differences?

How will they be checked?

Re: Brexit
 

You mean like horse meat coming from Romania and Ireland?

Re: Brexit
 

we be out by now if Ireland border was solved and easy it aint easy that's why we still in at moment

Re: Brexit
 

Wrong as usual - we are still in, because of the worst Parliament since Oliver Cromwell, worst PM since Anthony Eden and a pathetic, set of self serving fools, majority of them AKA MPs.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Is it fair to presume that at the last general election, like the referendum, people knew exactly what they were voting for? If yes, then the general population must be culpable at least to some extent as the current government is only in place due to the will of the people?

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

It is depressing when Sinn Fein have more principles and honesty than the Brexit/UKIP political entity. Putting yourself forward in an democratic election as self-avowed fifth columnists is just gutter politics.

Here's the Code of Conduct for Members of the European Parliament

Mr Farage and his cohorts to a tee!

I wouldn't be surprised if, before long, Farage will deploys his fascist scare tactics in the upcoming EU elections.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

By the same token, I’d rather be part of a larger organisation of states working together to improve the quality of life of its citizens and economies of the participants countries, using its greater economic and political heft.

Re: Brexit
 

The likes of Romania are never, no matter how much money you give them, going to match Germany.


All Germany seems to do is want to IMPOSE on everybody else, the burdens it imposes upon itself. All in the name of a "level playing field". An EU country is not allowed to have different policies that might be beneficial to it.

Re: Brexit
 

If only that were true - back in the day we joined the EEC which was an economic community designed to achieve what you have described - unfortunately it became more political, less representative, more invasive and developed into a massive gravy train which is not what a lot of people who originally voted IN wanted hence the majority of the current NO voters are of the older generation. So it appears that there are many people who do not want to "remain in the EU under their cosh and jurisdiction" because that is what they see happening.

Re: Brexit
 

So how will we have customs checks without any border infrastructure?

Re: Brexit
 

We'll just give Ireland back to the Irish, sorted. Stuff the DUP.
https://g.co/kgs/W7cuQt

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

So would I.........do you know one?

---------- Post added at 20:52 ---------- Previous post was at 20:50 ----------

Either very naive or very stupid

---------- Post added at 20:59 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

Do we have to physically inspect vehicles?

Or can what is loaded onto vehicles be logged onto a database at the loading point. ANPR can click it as passes through the border ( and at other points along the way). The contents can the be checked off again at the point of unloading.

It is not beyond the wit of man to sort this out if there was a real desire to do it.

Re: Brexit
 

Everything will have already been "booked in" from our current external borders, eg container ships from China, or produced in the UK.

Re: Brexit
 

Not all of them, but certainly some of them.

Who checks them? You can't have customs officials at every possible unloading point in the country. Do you just trust the final recipients to declare items to be taxed, items that shouldn't have made it though? The obvious place would be in the Irish Sea but that is a non-starter with the DUP and Unionists because it further diverges N.Ireland from the rest of the U.K. which is why we asked for the wider backstop.

Plenty of people have said this but no one has an answer. People will say 'we'll just use blockchain/technology/the cloud' without elaborating or that 'it will be fine' but against without the actual answer.

---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:03 ----------

No because at the moment with the EU everything that comes into the UK from elsewhere is checked and anything from the EU is not. That's because they're checked on their entry into the EU.

We're talking about a new EU border. For most cases that's fine since we're an island so have checks at every entry point apart from one: The border on the island of Ireland.

Re: Brexit
 

Oh please :rolleyes: - I get sick of hearing the word "fascist" these days, so commonly and incorrectly used by people who just simply disagree with others, there is nothing Fascist what Farage has ever said - it's pathetic this typical smearing from Remainers, but as usual ignore the real issues from parties like Labour and now ChUK'ers who launched this week and at last count, has now dismissed three candidates due to their prior racist remarks.

Re: Brexit
 

The EU is supposedly concerned about illicit goods entering the EU via NI. All goods from outside the EU and UK, will have already been checked by UK Customs.

Re: Brexit
 

Spot on!

Re: Brexit
 

Are you being serious with this rubbish?

The people instructed the government and yes, before Hugh starts barking, it was an instruction, to leave the corrupted EU, we was then met with a snap election, it is not the peoples fault if the government does not stick to their manifesto pledges.

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------

Nope, not spot on at all - you know very well we have a Remainer Parliament, we are still in because of self serving fools, who are not honouring their Manifesto pledges.

Re: Brexit
 

The make-up of Parliament is irrelevant to the creation of the backstop. The backstop was insisted on by the Republic of Ireland - not by Theresa May, Dominic Grieve or even Amber Rudd!

Re: Brexit
 

AND - This has absolutely nothing to do with why we are still in. We are still in because as I have said more than once - we have a Remainer Parliament, Remainer PM - who simply has an half-hearted effort to leave the EU.

Put a leaver in charge and we would soon depart without all this bullshit from the Remainer saboteurs.

Re: Brexit
 

I'm constantly being told that everyone knows what they are voting for. I also know that people should change their minds if the facts change ie new or better evidence arises. This suggests the country knew what they were doing when they voted in a Remainer-dominated parliament. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

So which of the 'leavers' would you put in charge ? There is a myriad of talent to choose from..... Chief Clown Boris ?

Re: Brexit
 

Seems fair to me:

Nigel Farage copies Nazi propaganda tactics as he unveils 'racist' poster showing Syrian refugees

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/04/7.jpg

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/04/8.jpg

Re: Brexit
 

I do agree we should have had a leaver PM who should have taken responsibility to leave. But none stepped up.

---------- Post added at 22:12 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------

Michael Gove is the most talented leaver but BoJo the most popular with the local associations.

Re: Brexit
 

We know it's a Remainer dominated parliament now, don't we? :rolleyes:

We didn't before we voted and we had MPs saying they would honour the referendum result prior to themselves getting voted in.

And btw....Peoples opinions are not evidence.

---------- Post added at 22:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:13 ----------

That is not fascism - try again please. :dunce:

---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

Have you gone blind ?

I've already stated I will vote for the Brexit Party in this thread.

I want a party that honours democracy and the democratic decision to leave the EU because we do not need to be in this disgusting and corrupt union any longer.

Re: Brexit
 

And it will take at least ten years, as shown in the Home Office presentation discussed recently in this thread

Re: Brexit
 

I doubt it.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

It's not just illicit goods. It's ones where the products don't conform to EU/UK regulation and tariffs.

Re: Brexit
 

Mmm, it's a problem isn't it? If only we'd thought about all this and had a plan before we started this Brexit thing ...:rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

You're right Pierre - Government IT projects always get delivered in less time than estimated. :D

Re: Brexit
 

Like this you mean..;)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24130684

Re: Brexit
 

And what do you base this on?

The people putting the presentation together were experts in International Trade and Technology, and if anything, were optimistic in their outlook.

Re: Brexit
 

Hopefully, something more substantial than it's not beyond the wit of man.

Re: Brexit
 

Let's try racism then.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...vist-1-6015344



---------- Post added at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 ----------

That party does not honour democracy. It intends to put forward 5th columnist MEP candidates in the upcoming EU elections.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

How would they know - they never turn up for committee meetings, and just grandstand in the MEP meetings.

To change something, you have to try to change it - just burning it down isn't change, it's nihilism.

Re: Brexit