Re: Brexit discussion
 

l am of my own mind and could see through the reprehensible and discreditable lies and deceit that came from both sides of the fence.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

David Keighley and Andrew Jubb of Newswatch REALLY don't like the BBC!

It would be interesting so see how much the proportions changed post 2015 when Brexit became a real possibility and then reality. That 3.2% is from before a referendum was called and so reflected the status quo. It would also be interesting to see how the BBC lines up against other public service broadcasters (ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5) and other news outlets

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It’s amusing to see the Sun calling out another media organisation for bias...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Except that the BBC has a charter duty to be unbiased. No such requirement is made of the press and we also know which way each publication leans.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Ironically, elsewhere you said that remainers use the same arguments again and again, while arguing (again) that the various predictions made about Brexit have not happened. So, I would argue (probably again, although I cannot find any specific examples) that the fact that not all of the bad stuff predicted has happened (I would argue some has, such as record drops in the value of the pound), does not mean it will not happen when we leave. Even the remain campaign said it would not happen immediately. In fact, if anything negative happens it is likely to be over the next decade or two.

In short, paraphrasing Private Eye, one possible reason that **** hasn't hit the fan yet is that no one has started the fan.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

How long will you remain on the fence? Until one side or the other's version come to pass? ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

l was a remainer but that does not mean l liked their campaign because l did not and like the Brexit side it was full of mendaciousness and duplicitousness as l had my own reasons for voting why l did just like everybody else..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Sigh.

It’s wrong to keep bringing up the argument, ‘we haven’t left yet’, there was plenty of wild scare stories brought up if a leave decision had been made, right after the result. All of them showed to be very inaccurate, the pound dropped and the value of the £vs$, have you noticed it’s value these days?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes, voting leave hasn't impacted the UK negatively one iota. Oh, hang on!


UK annual growth slips to lowest since 2012

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But we haven’t left yet..... That’s the line getting thrown out in 24 hours on here by your Remainer buddies. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Buckley's narrative is a blatant manipulation of the news. Where are the facts to support this?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It seems that construction was the main sector affecting the slightly lower overall growth as it contracted slightly. Hardly a Brexit affected industry unless all the Polish brickies have gone home.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

They are correct and you are indeed wise to heed their words. ;) Worse is to come if we do leave the single market.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We are leaving the single market and customs union, not doing so, is keeping a foot in the door to the EU which is what people who voted leave don't want.

Leave means leave, not half in half out.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You better tell that to those at war over it in the PM's cabinet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42823654

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We are leaving the Customs Union. How else are we going to forge our own trade deals?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I fear the fact-free Leaver media have misinformed you and many others about the Customs Union in order for you to vote Leave. Iceland is a member of the Customs Union but has negotiated a trade deal with China.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...ith-China.html

Anyway, we may not really leave as Sky News explains:
https://news.sky.com/story/long-read...union-11222746

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You are the one who is misinformed. Iceland is not in the EU Customs Union, they are in a EEA, European Economic Area agreement. Thus, able to strike their own trade deals, they still have to abide by certain rules but I repeat, they are not in the EU Customs Union.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Correct.:)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yup - they are in the Single Market, not the EU CU.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36083664

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Not correct. :(

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Are we getting any closer to a harmonious decision about whether Brexit is good or bad?

Let's take a look:

Facts for = 36
Facts against = 36

Tabloid manipulation for = 42
Tabloid manipulation against = 42

Non biased media for = 50%
Non biased media against = 50%

Lies & deceit for = 68.49%
Lies & deceit against = 68.49%

Results indicate an accurate scoring (to within + or - 73%) which reveals that, as yet, nobody has the faintest idea what's going on :D

Forecast = carry on posting :Yes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

My bad, well played, please accept my apologies.
But my main point remains - the EU Customs Union is not off the agenda. As the quote from Sky News showed, common sense may yet still prevail, "From within the Cabinet Brexit subcommittee, the idea of essentially remaining part of the same customs union is now seriously being pondered again."

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Don't pin your hopes on us staying in the customs union as it's highly unlikely it will be happening due to opposition from a number of EU member states and i really wouldn't put much faith in anything the media says in relation to brexit as all of them are too agenda ridden. Much like the EU referendum campaigns the average member of the public is struggling to get impartial and accurate information it's pretty depressing to be honest all we get is both sides throwing out rubbish that they think their supporters want to hear.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think it's pretty clear that the cabinet is divided on Brexit but I've seen no evidence that EU member states wouldn't want to have a customs union with us. Certainly, it's pretty obligatory if we are going to honour our promises to the island of Ireland.
And Sky News is a reliable and impartial source IMHO.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Same as every election then...

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------

and as for the Bombardier tariffs furore:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42825916

Looks like that's about as likely as Osborne's emergency budget. So the 220% tariff that some folks around here were whining about isnt't actually going to happen. Good news unless you're a glass half empty sport of person...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Great news. Looks like we could be under EU laws from March 2019 for nearly three years! :) Bad news if you're a Brexiter glass-half-empty kind of person who believed Johnson's two-year red line speech.

British officials in secret discussions with Brussels to extend Brexit transition period to almost three years

Re: Brexit discussion
 

An interesting Brexit situation centres around the .eu domain name. The UK has 340,000 of these domains. Under current EU rules, UK owners of .eu domain names will no longer be eligible to use them after Brexit
https://publications.parliament.uk/p...dTextAnchor008

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Brits Overwhelmingly Favor A Second Brexit Referendum, New Poll Shows.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidsc.../#2c795d0724e0

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Frankly I found their campaign fractured and disorganised and distinctly lacklustre.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Looks like we're trying to postpone Doomsday for as long as possible. 4 years to 'real' Brexit is a long time, public opinion is changing already, Brexiteers are divided and on the run. Let's face it, they never had a plan, expected others to pick up the pieces, and are now panicking.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm not panicking, not by a long shot :)

I suspect though, that those who stand to lose a great deal of money, reputation, and community standing will be engaged in furious deal mongering to try and ensure their lifestyle doesn't drop down to the levels of 97% of the general public :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Dropping down to the plebs level might just be the shock they need to show them the true meaning of reality.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

This brexiteer is not on the run, nor panicking, I’d love to know where you get the magical insight in to knowing what 17.4 Million of us are doing. You’re wrong of course, may be the other Brexiteers, on here, can say if they are ‘on the run’ or ‘panicking’, or is it just the usual made up rubbish, to suit ones Anti-Brexit narrative? :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 ----------

Glad to hear it, my fellow Brexiteer. Still no regrets here for me, voting to leave the corrupted pile of garbage, onwards and upwards, just ignore the negative noises from some of the Remainers, they have been fundamentally wrong on all the other doom and gloom predictions so far.. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You're deffo right there. The rich little Englanders have thought twice now they've spoken to their financial advisors and realised how this might affect their investment portfolios. Getting our country back is all very well, but one's money is one's money.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's 26% of voters full stop, regardless of whatever side they voted for

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Lmao no panic here it warms my heart every day to see the self delusion of remain fanatics jumping on any little crumb they feel vindicates them. There is not going to be another referendum on this and brexit isn't going to be softly softly and on that great day we are officially out I'll be having more then a few drinks.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Hear, hear. :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Which happy day will that be? End of March, next year when little will change because we're in 'transition'. Or after 2 years of that (no wait, it's now 3 years transition). By that time we'll have a new govt./changed our minds/ or totally watered it down. We could have even put our reapplication to join in by then ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Nice to be called a self delusional remain fanatic ain't it Mr K as nothing could be further from the truth but then truth is the first casualty of the real reality of the real world...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Indeed. Watering down is what Brextremists fear and is looking increasingly likely as Brexit becomes more and more like a box-ticking exercise. Albeit one which has seen EU regulators leave the UK together with their well-paid jobs and numbers of civil service bureaucrats escalate whilst NHS funding has failed to keep up with costs.

Today's news is likely to discomfort Brextremists:

Mandarins opposed to exiting the EU 'forcing weak PM into soft Brexit'
Theresa May to hold crunch talks as pollster warns of heavy losses in council elections
The pollster in question predicted last year's surprise election result so is being taken incredibly seriously.
UK heading for 'dilution of Brexit', says former minister
Jeremy Corbyn convenes ‘away day’ to discuss Brexit policy shift
Some prominent leavers are now realising that extending Article 50 might be better than a transition deal.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Fair play to Remoan for perpetuating the Brexit discussion after their utter rout in the referendum but the cost to CF has been the loss of many contributors whose interesting views on a much more varied range of topics has been drowned out.

Well done Remoan; you've made losers of us all :sleep:.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don't think anyone, including those representing both the EU and the UK in negotiations, know what's ultimately going to happen.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Agreed, which makes it an interesting topic.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Fair play to Remoan for quickly re-asserting the 'importance' of a tired, insular 'debate' with 2 essentially meaningless posts.

Sigh :dozey:.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

If it helps, there will be a lot of hot air , arguing, politicians trying to 'advance' themselves. In practice very little of any substance will end up happening. We'll be a 'ghost' EU member - still paying but having no say.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Make that 3. Seriously chaps, you must be boring yourselves by now as well as closing the door on a previously vibrant forum community?

You are each interesting and intelligent posters but it's as if you're stuck in a groove of Brexit tedium.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Keep this up the EU seems to be breaking down from the standing point of all or nothing. yes it's happening slowly but we are making some headway with the EU.

Given that the recent response from Mackron that the French given the vote would probably vote frexit goes to show how weak the EU actually is.

I don't think the UK is backed into a corner I think the EU is scared and they are the ones in the corner they are using scare tactics and any means possible to try and weaken the UK stance. We all know France aren't the only country considering leaving and there are cracks all over the EU. I think EU governments are watching from the shadows to see the final outcome of this and I think the UK needs to stand strong we may have more friends than we think.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Macron also said;

Polling across Europe is still very much in favour of membership, even in Greece

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm sure it is in countries in receipt of EU largess.:erm:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Surely not...

:rofl:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Support for the EU is largely above 50% in Europe, be it net beneficiary or not:http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/15/...ble-toward-eu/

But they do also want their own votes despite that:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/01/4.png

Re: Brexit discussion
 

A rout for one side or the other in the referendum would have been far more preferable to the result we got imo, would've made what followed far less messy

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The figures for Germany up there ^^^ suggest otherwise

Re: Brexit discussion
 

And Sweden, France, and the Netherlands

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The majority decision to Leave was a clear enough mandate; it's the subsequent remoaning that's confusing you (as is the intention).

But my real point is that the remoaning has buggered up the forum.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

From the research that followed in this thread, it looks like it was just the UK that was in favour of leaving. :erm:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think we will all see that changing once the UK leaves the EU and prospers.

The EU has nothing to offer as it stands. It needs to change or it will disintegrate.

The only real question is, how quickly?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Sounds like you want an echo chamber ! The public is split, shouldn't the forum reflect that ?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

This to me is the Brexit problem.
https://twitter.com/lasancmt/status/955038018737442816

Re: Brexit discussion
 

One thing I think we underestimate in the UK, Remain or Leave, is the emotional aspect of the EU for those on the continent. Remainers largely focused on the economic aspect whereas Leavers focused no the control/legal aspect.

But we could be overlooking the importance of the concept on those on the continent. The EU was set-up by a generation who grew up in the aftermath of WW2 and is currently run by a generation who grew up in a Europe divided by the Berlin Wall.

Stuff like that might explain why the EU can be quite unpopular in these countries but support for leaving it be so low because it represents something more to them than just the institutions...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Meanwhile, back at the Coalition of Chaos
Brexiteers who accused MPs of 'selling out' over £39bn EU bill branded 'swivel-eyed' old men by senior minister

---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 22:18 ----------

I think you're right, Damien. To many on the Continent, the EU offers peace. For those in central and eastern Europe, it provides security from the threat of Russia and a badge of status.

When Old Boy says "The EU has nothing to offer as it stands" he is self-projecting. People in these countries believe otherwise.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

How droll :monkey:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But true

Re: Brexit discussion
 

What's true?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Its what you call democracy Mr K as most have accepted the referendum result but some want to reduce the debate to little more then what they want to say and not what they want to hear.;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Hardly a rout was it and it wasn't a clear enough mandate for Nigel who considers 52% - 48% unfinished business.

I don't recall remoaners mobbing people of the forum because they'd had the temerity to post a few graphs or link to a newspaper that questioned the education levels of people that voted leave, still YMMV of course

Re: Brexit discussion
 

What's true, Hugh? :shrug:
Is any of that true? :shrug: Look up 'democracy' and 'majority' then look up 'referendum result' and 'acceptance' then look up 'gibberish'.
Nigel is self-promoting don't you think? :shrug:
I don't recall that either? :shrug:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I sense selective amnesia: "What? ... I don't recall ..." :)

You seem to forget there are those that moaned and complained for 40 years after the vote to join the Common Market. I missed the post where you affirmed that any dissent after this vote was anti-democractic?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

hit nail on head remember the Brextremists only think one vote counts and no one has right to say anything about it

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Agreed.:Yes:

---------- Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 20:15 ----------

Meanwhile, Angela Merkel had the world's journalists laughing. At Brexit Britain's expense of course. :(
https://www.itv.com/news/2018-01-29/...dy-double-act/

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Interesting to see Angela Merkel has the time to make anyone laugh, given she is unable form an effective government.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The Government commissioned analysis on the economic impact of the various Brexit options and has been so careful as to only show a cabinet minster at a time.

Naturally it's leaked immediately: https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonard...le9#.majkANAG7

Re: Brexit discussion
 

was just gonna post that but the Brextremists will deny it as usual

Re: Brexit discussion
 

A journalist from The Times now suggests that the leak means the entire report might now find it's way to Parliament....

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Could David Cameron have commissioned something like this before the referendum and would it have swayed people?

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------

lol, there's no other possible outcome, surely?
Finally, as the Brextremists crawl back under their rocks again, how can Theresa May put a brave face on this damning evidence?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Sigh....Some people still don’t get it that leaving the corrupt and pathetic EU is not just about money.

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:34 ----------

Whose crawling under their rocks?. I’m not and I still would vote leave. I’m sick of saying I do not to be part of a corrupt union that eventually wants to become a U.S.E !

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It may not 'just' be about money but money and jobs are pretty critical to people. Maybe people didn't think there would be £350 million extra for the NHS and maybe they didn't really think much would change. I doubt that many voted with the expectation they might lose out.

Anyway it might be worth waiting to see if this leak is genuine. The Government were very secretive about this document, minsters had to see it one by one and in a room without any paperwork being taken out with them. It's quite a leak if true.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

‘Might’ being the key word as usual.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Even if some EU countries formed a closer relationship, the UK would have had a veto. And you've yet to explain why the EU is corrupt despite repeating the assertion.

Anyway, assuming the Buzzfeed report is true*, the cat's out of the bag:

Leaving the EU means less money for the NHS and our armed forces...as I've said from day one.

*Now being reported in Financial Times, a paper not known for taking risks.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There is no cat out of the bag. It’s not going to change a thing, so stop leaping about as if this means anything.

I have explained plenty of times why EU is corrupt. So I have nothing yet to explain at all.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Um, think this pretty much matches the expression.

It doesn't matter if this evidence changes your mind or not; it will have an important impact on public opinion and encourage the Government towards a soft Brexit. It will certainly make the May council elections even more exciting.

Good news for democracy that this report is out in the open and not kept within the confines of the political elite.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's a load of cack, (evidence of what? ) the same people trotting out the same flawed statistics . . . err I mean guesswork . . that worked out to be oh so accurate in the past, right?

Remoaners straw clutching yet again?

Come on guys . . secret meetings, one on ones, hush hush don't say a word, then . . ooops it got leaked :rolleyes:


I bet there's people even now saying the Russians leaked it :D:D:D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Project Fear?
I'm afraid not. It's Project Reality. :dunce:
https://www.ft.com/content/b3d35136-...0-9c0ad2d7c5b5

Re: Brexit discussion
 

and the evidence you have of this is??

Britain will be left worse off under all Brexit scenarios, with financial services, chemicals, clothing, manufacturing, food and drink, cars and retailing among the sectors worst hit, according to secret government analysis.


aah, thought so.

It's just what some people (highly educated and in positions of National importance) have 'accidentally' allowed to be leaked to the press - again!

one has to wonder why ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Oh look another leak and yet again it's an anti brexit leak funny how there are never leaks of the positive reports and yes they do exist within government circles always anti brexit and so good for our nation that the deliberate undermining of a democratic process is being welcomed by so many. Not overly surprised to be honest the anti brigade only have so long before the positives can be revealed as they are being actively worked upon but cannot be officially announced for a while. This country gets more pathetic day by day how i wish i had the money to get the hell out.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don't doubt some feeble attempts by BoJo et al to undermine this document. Maybe even bring in there's no such as experts, they always get things wrong.
The people of this great nation should see the document and make up their own minds.

---------- Post added at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:17 ----------

Yes, of course those positive reports really do exist, but the aliens won't allow them to be leaked. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm flattered that you were expectantly awaiting some sort of announcement from li'l ol' me. It's made me feel like your carer :blush:.

Leave voters have debated their referendum win with remoaners since the day it took place; it doesn't change the result though :shrug:.

Take heart from knowing you're on the winning side RK; as Ronald Reagan once said: we shouldn't hold the inexperience of snowflakes against them (or something like that) :).

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Grow up or are you really that stupid to believe only negative reports exist, you talk about the people getting to see that document as if it's the be all and end all when the truth is it's nothing in terms of information and situations that brexit is generating and the people of this country are getting to see or even hear of barely nothing. Not a thing about the meeting merkel had with senior german business leaders a month ago where she was told germany needed a good deal with the UK or how macron had military and intelligence people telling him how important the UK was in terms of security for the western european nations.

You think your being so clever but the fact is your not hearing about or even really aware of what's actually going on constantly arguing over trivialities and constantly repeating tired old arguments. Our position in these negotiations is anything but one sided but there are some in this country that won't forgive the people of the UK voting how they did and will do anything they can to undermine that vote even to the point of damaging this country's position to further their agenda. If the people should get to see one document they should get to see them all but that won't happen and when they find whoever leaked this they need to go to prison and it is time the law hit all those who leak confidential and classified information.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Which positive internal government reports exist? I mean maybe they do but it doesn't follow there was to be a 'positive' report for every 'negative' report.

Grass is always greener on the other side. This is a very good country to live in IMO.

This report also contains the projected growth from US and other trade deals. But yes they should release the whole thing to Parliament.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Totally agree, Damien.

And sad to see another Brexiter denigrating this great nation of ours. This is a fantastic country to live in and I'm sad that we can't all agree on this one point.

If anyone feels otherwise and wants to leave the UK, that's a more productive use of their time than knocking the UK on forums. If they're not dependent on state benefits then there's a wealth of countries they can move to work or just retire in. We're very fortunate in this respect.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Indeed if someone does not like this wonderful country despite its faults then they should toddle off to Timbuktu or some other great paradise..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well done that man. :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Gavin Williamson isn't being subtle is he? :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I believe the word prat is appropriate.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That Whitehall report isn't all doom and gloom, there are also projections on growth from trade deals;

There's definitely growth potential with non-EU countries, that was why the UK was courting Turkey and China. However, the highest growing countries are either small economically, or far away, or both. The highest average growth over the last 6 years for example was Nauru in the South Pacific

Re: Brexit discussion
 

This is pretty wierd even by your standards ..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

All this fuss over a report that's telling what we already know i.e. we're screwed. The Brexiteers genuinely seem to have only just realised it, hence the panic.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There is nothing to realise. Mr K.

No panic here. Looking forward to leaving still. :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Sorry don't have time to help you with English comprehension. A cocoa and a wee might help you though :p:
No "we're" not. Try sucking your thumb to assist relaxation ;)