Re: US Election 2016
 

He did say he wanted to bring manufacturing back from Mexico to the US. I suppose this is one way.

Mexico will pay through loss of jobs.

Re: US Election 2016
 

More detail here: https://www.ft.com/content/424d4246-...5-718f87b2ff80

It's seems to be an option rather than a certainty right now.

Sean Spicer:



---------- Post added at 21:49 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------

But Mexico could well retaliate and impose a 20% tariff on American Imports. I just looked it up at Mexico are America's third biggest export market. https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade...ppartners.html

It would hurt Mexico more obviously but also America. Whose own exports will be harmed as well as the additional tax both nation's citizens would have to pay.

Re: US Election 2016
 

So he or his spokesman is deffo making it up as they go along. Mexico to put a 25% tax on US goods ;)

Bet the Donald is cacking himself tonight. Mother Theresa is going to to read him the riot act over torture/waterboarding tomorrow. The UK just won't stand for that sort of thing (well it's ok as long as we pretend to know nothing about it). Or will he have forget she's coming ?

Re: US Election 2016
 

Bet he isn't

Re: US Election 2016
 

I think he might be, the prospect of a telling of from mother Theresa can't be pleasant, plus what if he can't control his unusually small hands and grabs her by the, well the consequences just don't bare thinking about

Re: US Election 2016
 

I know who will come off worse if he tries to grab her by the p****y. I don't fancy Trumps chances!:D

Re: US Election 2016
 

Yes I can picture it, that thing on his head becomes hair force one as it goes out the window and we go back to the back of the queue for a trade deal

Re: US Election 2016
 

Well seeing as she's grown a pair it could be a nasty shock for the Donald. :D

Re: US Election 2016
 

May's speech yesterday was ok. I hope she pushes the importance of NATO with Trump.

Re: US Election 2016
 

https://twitter.com/cnnpolitics/stat...49084009926656

As one response said

Re: US Election 2016
 

It depends, you need a mix of interrogation methods.

Would also be good if "torture" was better defined, so we know exactly what we're talking about.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Professional interrogaters know torture is very effective and does deliver credible results the trouble is in the west the public doesn't want to know it's being done on their behalf and acts outraged when it comes out it has been used. The fact is if torture was as ineffective as some like to think backed up by studies that never involve the people who interrogate it would not still be used as nobody in the military or intelligence services enjoys wasting their time on zero result producing techniques. Chemical interrogation is becoming more productive as well and it's usually a combination of chemical and physical that deliver results.

Re: US Election 2016
 

He already knows, he has pushed out the same rhetoric on it all through his campaign and he is right on one aspect of it, certain NATO members need to pay their fair share of defense spending, a fact the PM highlighted herself in the speech.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Cripes. It might deliver results but are they helpful ? ie. the recipient just saying whatever the interrogator wants to hear to make it stop. And just stirring up more hate, resentment and radicalisation in the meantime The results of US handywork can already be seen.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Well, I find it double standards, that in the Far East, you have heads being chopped off, just for being a Christian, gays being pushed off buildings, women having no rights at all, children being hired out as sex slaves, same women with no rights, being repeatedly raped by several men at a time and very few heads in the media world are turned, yet, here we are, the press and some folks getting a bit precious about what is happening in the West with the President of the United States and what he thinks about some Torture methods.

Re: US Election 2016
 

It might deliver results but are they helpful? If it save just one life then YES!

Re: US Election 2016
 

And if it costs hundreds more because of the resulting hatred stirred up ?

Re: US Election 2016
 

Yes it is helpful and if we weren't so precious about it the benefits could be more rationally explained but the public prefers largely to know it happens but not have to admit they know or allow it so long as we don't talk about it it's ok. Trained professional interrogaters know when someone is saying something to make it stop and they also are the first to cease torture if a person knows nothing. Despite the image of thugs getting their thrills interrogation and physical and chemical torture is a science and whilst that doesn't apply globally it predominately applies in the west and is continued because it produces verifiable results.

Most of those who hate the west would do so anyway does it hand them an excuse maybe but it's just an excuse to allow them to do what they want and will do anyway and perhaps if they weren't so happy to target civilians in cowardly attacks we wouldn't need to do it so much.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Well Trump's just confirmed, in his Q&A session with the PM, that he is going to be guided by General Mattis re the efficacy of torture and since Mattis reckons it doesn't work, that seems to be that.

May makes Corbyn look like an inept, pot smoking. corduroy clad, polytechnic lecturer from the 1970's.

Re: US Election 2016
 

To be fair if Corbyn was a Tory then the media would be praising him for how well he has, one by one, taken down the shadow cabinet.

Re: US Election 2016
 

And not just the once...... oops:

Re: US Election 2016
 

Maybe but watching some wild eyed bearded loony that would chop off your head at the first opportunity getting some of his own medicine would be very satisfying. :D

He isn't?

Re: US Election 2016
 

Exactly. He's been the most effective politician in recent years at taking votes from Labour.

Re: US Election 2016
 

maybe even as effective as nick clegg at taking votes from the lib/dems .

Re: US Election 2016
 

Yeah, he's doing a great job for the other side. :D

Re: US Election 2016
 

Let's test it on the donald then, just to be sure

Re: US Election 2016
 

Trump's ban on people from a collection of middle-eastern countries is so broad in language that legal residents returning from abroad are being blocked too: https://www.propublica.org/article/t...ing-to-america

A director nominated for an Oscar will now be banned from entering because they're from Iran: https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/82...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Google are worried too: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...e_AnSLx6mXwDV3

Re: US Election 2016
 

ah but lets not forget that the terrorists of the world will all be thwarted now because the yanks won't give them a visa

Re: US Election 2016
 

I think Trump needs to realise and quickly too that the position of president cannot be executed in the same way as a C.E.O and Trump clearly doesn't understand that yet he's barking orders in the same old way but unlike before it's not his company and the consequences have wider implications.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Spot on.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Isnt that what a executive order is, it can override pretty much anything else. Much like a CEO can make unilateral decisions.

Reading Wiki about it however gives me this

Re: US Election 2016
 

Homeland Security has confirmed that US Green Card holders are included in this ban. These are citizens who are legally there, and documented, and are considered residents. They're now banned from coming home if they arrive back in the country from abroad and are originally from one of the banned countries.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/us..._medium=Social

This has to be illegal and will probably be stopped but Jesus.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Ah well it'll take the focus off Brexit... :D

Re: US Election 2016
 

A delusion if ever l saw one.

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he definitely has border control well in hand .

Re: US Election 2016
 

The Republicans seem to be pretty unhappy too and are working to change it. There are people who can't go home, they live in the United States, their homes are there, their families are there. People who return home from business trips are turned away and there is nowhere else for them to go. You can live on a green card so long that it is your life now. We're not talking about tourists, or temporary visas, these are permanent residents.

Re: US Election 2016
 

This ridiculous action won't stop one single terrorist action towards the USA ,if anything it will make things worse ,it's as bad a decision as his wall

Re: US Election 2016
 

I can't see this lasting until tomorrow. They'll likely tell them to let green card holders in before a legal challenge, the legal challenge will be one, or worst case scenario congress can overturn the action. There is no way this will hold for 90 days, Trump might as well given in and save the headache.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Agree, the other thing to consider is that all the terrorist actions on American soil have been done by American citizens not by refugees or jihadists pretending to be refugees.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/op...gen/index.html

Re: US Election 2016
 

It also applies to citizen with a joint nationality. So British citizens, if born in Iraq or Syria for example, are banned. Again even if they have a green card: http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-vi...28654?mod=e2tw

Re: US Election 2016
 

he seems to be living up to the promises made in the run up to the election and given that he won ,it would seem he has the people on his side they knew exactly what they voted for he blurted it out at every opportunity .

Re: US Election 2016
 

Winning an election doesn't justify immoral acts. How would you like if you were separated from your family in a country you were legally entitled to live in and had been living in?

These are legal immigrants. All the proper documentation. They live in America. They're being denied entry back in because of where they were born.

Re: US Election 2016
 

its an election promise being fulfilled ,and not being american i don't see it as any of my business ,in the same way that i don't expect Americans to interfere with our domestic policies , i would imagine the wording of the executive order will probably be amended if it is deemed necessary.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Neither Trump nor his supporters had the first clue of the consequences of some of his proposed actions ,they simply voted for populist nonsense and will now pay the price .

Re: US Election 2016
 

I can't read that link as it's behind a paywall.

But if you're a dual-national that means you have an American passport and are an American citizen. You can't ban your own nationals.

There has to be something incorrect about that story surely.

Re: US Election 2016
 

So you think that fulfilling election promises trumps peoples legal rights and allows for breaking families apart,and it's very much our business because whatever that idiot does will directly affect the rest of the developed world ,we are still recovering from the last time America sneezed.

Re: US Election 2016
 

It means dual-nationality of a nationality other than one of the banned countries. So a British-Iranian for example. Not dual nationality with America.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Nice sub link Damien.:rolleyes:

Re: US Election 2016
 

An Iranian with American nationality is banned ,an American with Iranian nationality is not .The ban applies to Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Somalia with more countries to be added to the list

if you type "Trump Visa Ban Also Applies to Citizens With Dual Nationality, State Department Says"you will get the full article from the WSJ

Re: US Election 2016
 

Oh, ok.

Well he's doing two - three things.

- he's honouring his election promises, something our politicians could learn

- he's sending out a hardline message to any would be terrorists or accomplices.

- he's setting out that in his presidency he is not scared to go to places that previous politicians wouldn't dare go for fear of political correctness and upsetting people.

Is that wise? Maybe.

Is it right to penalise innocent people?? I would say not.

But he is setting his stall out early.

People voted for change and for action, and they're going to get it, it would appear.

Re: US Election 2016
 

What if that election promise is unworkable rubbish ,should he still honour it?

Re: US Election 2016
 

May has to Brown nose Trump otherwise our country will be up the creek without a paddle.

Re: US Election 2016
 

People have pointed out that Mo Farah, who trains in Portland, won't be able to now. Not a surprise given the order but a sign of how barmy this policy is.

Still no official rescinding of the green card issue but a couple of people have been released so far, others were sent back before they got on the plane. It's being enforced in Dublin Airport as of a few hours ago. CNN reported they'll be allowed back in after an interview with an official if the official judges it to be fine but no idea what's going on.

Re: US Election 2016
 

He should try.

Re: US Election 2016
 

And yet the countries that the 9/11 terrorists came from are not on the list of countries that are banned...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijack...ber_11_attacks

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...fugee-program/

Re: US Election 2016
 

Tory MP also banned: https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/sta...45925275500545

Mo Farah lives in the US while he trains. If he leaves the country he won't be able to return (unless he has already left).

May still refuses to comment even in the case of Brits who're affected. So Brits who were born in one of those countries (Mo Farah was born in Somalia for example) then they're included.

Some MPs are saying that Trump should not be invited to address Parliament on his state visit: https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/s...06536142954496

Re: US Election 2016
 

Maybe MPs should boycott it. Would be a tad embarrassing if he addressed an empty chamber.

Re: US Election 2016
 

It's all so bizarre.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Here is a scenario for you all.

Trump is a Businessman, and he runs companies . He fires Directors, he reaps the rewards. He goes to Board Meeting, and decides what should be done and does it.

Running a business, and running the USA as President. Is totally different. In his companies he 'orders' several thousands of staff.

Being President, he is in charges of millions and tells the country, what should be done, and does it.

Can you see a pattern here.

He now has the biggest 'plum' running a Country. And now he has the biggest toy. And tends to think that he can play with that 'toy'

He will create such a problem here that when Congress sits, or whatever you call it. You will have a rebellion on your hands.

At the moment there must be thousands of people trying to get to there home - America. But they cannot Due to this order.

Can you see the pattern still.

Its not about terrorism, its about 'control' Trumps control. And he has the control of America

There is already problems coming from other Countries. I believe Iran has now stated it will ban Americans entering the Country

There will be Demos in the US. And Trump wont give a damn.

He has got a 'toy' and he is enjoying playing with it.

Can you imagine if a British MP goes to the US, and gets banned from entering

Re: US Election 2016
 

Well done you've correctly interpreted what a president does.


No, because she has just been and it was all fine.

Re: US Election 2016
 

How is this going to stop terrorism in the US if the other Muslim countries aren't on the list? Such as those that were the origin countries of the 9/11 terrorists?

Re: US Election 2016
 

Although Hillary won more votes so perhaps he doesn't have the people on his side, Trump is carrying out what he promised to do. At the time. I recall commentators suggesting that he was making populist pledges that he would not implement. So credit where it's due, even if you don't agree with his policies.

Re: US Election 2016
 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...xecutive-order

A judge has, for now, ordered that those who arrive with valid documentation (green card, visa etc) cannot be barred from entry (assuming normal checks are ok). Although it only applies if they were in transit or on American soil at the time of the judgement/signing of the order.

Re: US Election 2016
 

judge Donnelly, who was nominated by former president Barack Obama...
wonder how well this intervention will be received by the new administration .

Re: US Election 2016
 

They won't receive any legal challenge well. Thankful America is set-up to have to checks and balances.

It's not like it's unexpected. There is no way the arbitrary banning of legal immigrants wouldn't be itself illegal. It amounts to a sudden and forced deportation despite the person having followed the full legal process of America. People who claim they're only concerned about uncontrolled, or illegal, immigration cannot defend that.

Anyway the Director of the National Intelligence and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Committee has lost his (permanent) place on the national security council in favour of Steve Bannon. https://www.theatlantic.com/liveblog.../514826/14243/

Re: US Election 2016
 

It's not,American citizens are responsible for most if not all terrorist attacks on USA soil since 9/11

https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/...re-terrorists/

Re: US Election 2016
 

I am disappointed in Mrs May in not standing up the Orange One. If you appease a bully it just goes to increase his sense of validation.

Re: US Election 2016
 

when did he bully her

Re: US Election 2016
 

This is so true but no one in the US who is supporting Trump seem to grasp this or even care about the facts on this.

The Muslims are, if you apply historical parallels (and Godwin's law), Trump's Jews. He believes that the US needs someone to fear and hate in order to be "great again".

Let's see how long the American public takes to become uncomfortable with this journey of Trumps. We can see the start of the Briebart-style "alternative facts" media strategy to deflect and obfuscate what is really happening. The US media is being positioned as the "enemy of freedom" so it certainly has a big challenge.

In fact, it took a British journalist to ask May & Trump the awkward questions that the media needs to ask to hold elected officials to account.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Nobody spot the irony of people from those countries complaining, when their refugee status is meant to be based upon people from those countries being violent and dangerous.

Re: US Election 2016
 

And was approved by the US Senate 95-2...

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...n=1&vote=00279[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 12:15 ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 ----------

He didn't say Trump bullied May - he said Trump was a bully.

Re: US Election 2016
 

who has he bullied then

Re: US Election 2016
 

Ask him - I was commenting on your conflated assertion, not his statement... ;)

Re: US Election 2016
 

Why Hillary of course... :D

Re: US Election 2016
 

A visit to Buckingham Palace may be interesting for Donald Trump!

He and Prince Charles are in dispute about climate change.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7551701.html

Trump's comments about Diana would not have gone down too well in the Palace either.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-Charles.html

Kate Middleton would not be too impressed with his 2012 tweet "Who wouldn't take Kate's picture and make lots of money if she does the nude sunbathing thing. Come on Kate!"
http://evoke.ie/extra/donald-trump-w...kate-middleton

Re: US Election 2016
 

Well, with all the furore over extreme vetting and the legality of the Executive Order, how long before we have another Operation Northwoods? (especially with the removal from the National Security Council, as permanent members (so removing oversight) the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence).

I mean, what could possibly go wrong when you replace the most senior Military and Intelligence leaders as permanent members of the NSC with an extreme right-wing political operative?

Re: US Election 2016
 

the way i heard it the bush administration destroyed the twin towers and blamed muslims - what was that operation southwoods ;)

Re: US Election 2016
 

I mean whilst he has a policy in place that bans their own citizens based on your country of origin I don't see the justification in giving him the full state visit. By all means he should visit but not get the full honorary treatment.

Re: US Election 2016
 

and that's why you don't work for the diplomatic services;)

Re: US Election 2016
 

He's the leader of the most powerful nation on the planet. No matter what you think of him personally it is necessary to butter him up with the full monty. It can only improve our chances of a good trade deal. Sometimes you have to hold your nose.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Which is understandable if it wasn't for the fact that we have our own MPs banned and citizens if they're born in one of those places. That has to stop. We have a duty to our citizens first.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Meh :sleep:

Meh :sleep:

PHWOARRR!:D

Re: US Election 2016
 

The welfare of citizens all around the globe is frequently sacrificed as a result of political expediency. HMG fails to intervene in all sorts of cases in which the political repercussions would be severe. Sad but true.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Times columnist and author India Knight has called for the assassination of U.S. President, Donald J. Trump Whilst I think "called for" is stretching it a bit, as someone in the comments said "Imagine what would happen to Tommy Robinson for inciting murder like this"

Re: US Election 2016
 

Yes. We have to be pragmatic and realistic. I don't think we can place absolute morality above all else which is why I am not suggesting we can ban him outright. But here our own citizens are banned from visiting, some even from returning home because they were born in the wrong place. Mo Farah, a man we made a a British knight, is banned because he was born in Somila. A Tory MP, whose name I cannot spell and I'm on my phone, is banned.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. This isn't normal. We're not talking about immigration controls here. We're talking about pure racism and discrimination.

So he can come because he is President of the United States and that's how it goes. But he doesn't get the honour, the pomp and circumstance, of a state visit. He is not a friend of who we are. :(

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

Quite.

Advocating the murder of others, however bad they are, is both sick and incompatible with liberal democracy. Even if you take out the immorality of it it achieves nothing.

---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Come to think of it it's also borderline illegal. I don't know what she actually said and am on my phone but is braitbart isn't lying (quite possible) than it's illegal to call for the assassination of people.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Sounds like another one of those hypocrites who decry those who advocate violence, intimidation, abuse, hate crime etc. but don't seem to mind indulging in some of it when it suits. It's pathetic and it's about time the police started cracking down on it. I look forward to seeing what happens in this case.

Re: US Election 2016
 

It was in the news yesterday that cases are being dealt with, on a case by case basis. I am sure if Mo Farah or the Tory MP that is said to run in to problems, or whoever else has a residence in the US will be admitted as the exception, it does say that if people have bothered to read the Executive Order.

I've seen a lot of hypocrisy this weekend and I cannot be bothered to explain it, so I'll just leave these here:-

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/an...e3a4d1e5ded377

AND:-

https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28...wont-tell-you/

Re: US Election 2016
 

In the real world we have to do business with people we don't like. The Chinese would be a good example - our homes are full of their gadgets in spite of the inconvenient facts. Is anyone seriously claiming their human rights and other abuses are less serious than Trump's?

Re: US Election 2016
 

TBH I expect more of America. China's state visit wasn't without complaint though.

Also I agree we have to deal with him. I just don't think he should treat him with special privileges until, at the very least, he treats our own citizens with basic rights. I'll never like the man but at least this he should back down from.

Re: US Election 2016
 

But they DON'T have a right to enter the US.

Re: US Election 2016
 

imo, she didn't call for his assassination but did as when it was going to happen.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Difference being - my example was fact, yours was fiction...

Re: US Election 2016
 

as yet a unproven allegation i think you mean ;)

Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various U.S. military and civilian targets

sound familiar ?

Re: US Election 2016
 

You have highlighted a classic Breibart fake-news story: the headline being absolutely untrue but lapped up by the faithful.

Don't forget Mr Breibart is now in a position of power and influence at the highest level of US Government .. fun times ahead indeed.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Lock her up along with Madonna.

Remember, "Love Trumps Hate", but only when it suits. :rolleyes:

Re: US Election 2016
 

A pretty weak attempt to defend the Orange One.

If you read the Seth Frantzman blog post, someone notes that:

Seth then replies:

The washingtonpost.com link confirms:

Re: US Election 2016
 

Wrong, as always.

Just like you were wrong when you said this:-

As the following looks like a real tweet by her, waiting on an assassination, is essentially asking for one by tweeting it:-

https://twitter.com/indiaknight/stat...37748013092864

Re: US Election 2016
 

Well this is interesting, have just applied for a group Esta (me and my family). On the 2 previous occasions I have done this we were accepted immediately. This time I have received the following message?

Your travel authorization is under review because an immediate determination could not be made.

Re: US Election 2016
 

But this isn't 'just' stopping issuing visas. It's also turning away anyone who is just visiting, people who already have Visas, and people who have green cards.

Re: US Election 2016
 

Let him run his country how he wants...the reason we were leaving the EU is because we were being told what to do by someone else. who are we as other countries to decide what he should and shouldn't do...you all wonder why he might push that button because there are some out there that don't agree with him like a lot of things and will carry on till they get there own way.