re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Not really, the propogandas coming equally from both sides. The Govts. own supposed 'information' leaflet was incredibly one sided and I don't know how they've got away with it. However the pro Brexit press headlines have now become so farcical it could backfire on their cause.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

In that case, have you said something like:
about something that the pro EU side has been saying? 'Cos I can't recall anything like that :confused:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Is this one daft? On the News today.

Vote Leave and take back control of our Fishing Industry. Take back control of our waters and create jobs. If as they say 85% of fishing stock goes to the EU, fear not, they will be only too willing to pay for it.

I find that hard to swallow because if we export 85% to Europe, why the hell are they fishing in our waters? Are they not catching anything? Remain propaganda is what it is.

---------- Post added at 09:33 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------

I am and that is why I'll vote Leave.

---------- Post added at 09:35 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------

Well at least someone has sense in the EU. Go France!

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

A lot of truths from both sides are going to be exposed, and many people will just go "Piffle it's from a biased media, so it can't be correct".

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

When I joined this forum I said "Vote Leave and Save our NHS."

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

"Ever closer union", single market in services, finance as well as manufacturing and no other EU member structuring its health service like the NHS.

The demise of the NHS as we know it is inevitable if we stay in. We get outvoted 27:1 so often, how anybody can think we will be able to keep our NHS is beyond me. :shrug:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Too late for the NHS; it's fate was sealed 12 months ago. It's got sweet nothing to do with the EU no matter how the campaigns desperately try to make links.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

How does a single market in services led to the abolishment of the NHS? The Government can even block takeovers of private companies, EU or not, so I am pretty sure they can block takeovers of public companies. They're the owners after all. Besides most other EU states also have different systems and public provisions.

It's just nonsense. You must know it isn't true.

I don't think this sudden concern on here over more use of private providers in the NHS convincing. This has already been happening for years under the last two governments generally without concern. We're at the stage where I assume everyone on here is about to discover a love of the miners' strike just so long as the pit closures can be blamed on the EU.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Nope, they'll always be Scargill's fault. :D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I believe the concern is around future moves towards compulsory private tendering of state-run services, as is currently happening, for example, with the State-owned Clyde and Hebridean ferry services operated Caledonian Macbrayne.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

OK but is that mandated by the EU? Also successive Labour and Tory governments have been using private tendering of state-run services for ages. If anything we're more in favor of that arrangement than most of the EU. If the EU do such a thing it may well be of our own making.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's talk like that will lead to the demise of the NHS. It is NOT finished. The money we save from the EU will see to that.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Do you really think money "saved" from any EU exit would really go to front line services? Dream on ...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm annoyed there's no neutral party providing information, as currently were being given conflicting information.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Were we meant to be unified? One nation one state...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The various pros and cons are going to be different according to individual perspective, so on this one, your gut feeling is probably going to be as good as it gets.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

having scanned the papers this morning i can report there is no good reason to remain in the EU.;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Hom3r there is, have a look at https://fullfact.org

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Simply put. A vote to remain in the EU is that you are happy with what they are doing and what their future plans are for the Union regardless of whether you believe it's better to remain or not.

Cameron bangs on about Britain being better off in a 'Reformed EU' and that is very possible. However, where are the reforms? What did he actually achieve? If the question being asked on June 23rd is this,

Should Britain remain a member of a Reformed EU?

Remain

Leave.

then the question is misleading as the EU is NOT reformed.

The Question should be simply this:

Should Britain remain a member of the EU?

Remain:

Leave:

I think voters going to the polls should read it as just that and not as a 'Reformed EU' because it isn't.

---------- Post added at 09:53 ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 ----------

The answer would depend on who is in Government.

---------- Post added at 09:58 ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 ----------

The whole planet is meant to be unified according to Christian or other Religious beliefs. The question then is this: Will we end up with a world Government.

First we have 4 Super States:

America.
Europe.
Asia.
Eastern Bloc..

What's next. The 4 heads then decide on one Government for the whole planet?

George Orwell would be proud to know his visions came true. They are already. The EU is Eurasia. The UK Airstrip One.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2016/05/7.gif

From Gundam 00.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

So let's get the hell out of Dodge! Vote Leave and avoid the pitfalls of the EU.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

You've all lost the plot.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Have you read Nineteen-Eighty-Four by George Orwell? If not I suggest you do. BIG BROTHER is Watching YOU!

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes, I've also read Animal Farm in case there is a pig or equality quote coming up.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The only pig lives in Downing Street as far as I'm aware

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

You mean the secret Pig stashed away that the PM is very fond of ! :)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Aye that too.

Now here's 10 good reasons why you should vote Leave:

1. Freedom to make stronger trade deals with other nations.

2. Freedom to spend UK resources presently through EU membership in the UK to the advantage of our citizens.

3. Freedom to control our national borders.

4. Freedom to restore Britain’s special legal system.

5. Freedom to deregulate the EU’s costly mass of laws.

6. Freedom to make major savings for British consumers.

7. Freedom to improve the British economy and generate more jobs.

8. Freedom to regenerate Britain’s fisheries.

9. Freedom to save the NHS from EU threats to undermine it by harmonising healthcare across the EU, and to reduce welfare payments to non-UK EU citizens.

10. Freedom to restore British customs and traditions.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm afraid the only freedom it would give Brian is for more right wing xenophobic swivel eyed loon Tories to give more tax cuts to the rich, and dispense with any protections the low paid workers have left. They have 4 more years in power whatever the result of this referendum. The last thing you'd get is freedom.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

IMOH the EU isn't going to change for the better in the future so it's not just the status quo that we'll be voting to leave, we'll be avoiding yet more of what the EU decides is good for us.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I think it depends on how the referendum goes and the scale of defeat if it's a Leave vote as to how long they have left in power. The problem there is who to put in their place as I think Labour are, despite what the top ones say, heading for a Leadership election.

---------- Post added at 18:03 ---------- Previous post was at 18:01 ----------

Couldn't agree more. As I said a vote to remain and we ask for what we'll get. Simple as that.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

and look what happened to him! Not a great role model :)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That's what 'they' are working towards.

---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:10 ----------

Oh, btw:http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...an-parliament/We are being stitched up on TTIP.....

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

They are better off without it’ Donald Trump calls on Britain to DITCH the 'horrible' EU

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ssels-migrants

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well, that would sway me to vote in... :D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

So there is sense in that 'brain' of his?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well. obviously not. If Trump's in favour of Brexit, that will make many think again....

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It hasn't made me think again.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Anyhoo Wha takes any notice of what Trump says. If, and God forbid, he's the next President of the USA and he thinks we should ditch the EU, at least we'll get great trade deals.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

All we'll get is nuclear armageddon Brian, at which point EU membership will be academic.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

No one will attack us, we have nukes.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

You are obviously not acquainted with the philosophy of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) which was prevalent during the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

If The Donald went loopy and used the launch codes, there would be automatic counterstrikes on opposing countries with Nukes (ie, us, France, Israel, etc).

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

no no no when the Donald becomes the president all nukes will be aimed at the real enemy ----------------MEXICO------------------;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Probably cheaper than building a wall 1,989 miles long, at an estimated cost of $25 billion dollars (just for the construction, not counting maintenance and security costs).

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Closely followed by North Korea going into low earth orbit.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm going to build a bunker. If everyone could stop screwing stuff up that would be good too.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm almost hoping he'll be elected just so that we all get a chance to see how his promises start to unravel. :erm:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm sure that if he gets to be president that saner minds will advise him that nuclear conflict is very bad for business and his personal fortune.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I am aware of it. There are two people in these bunkers all the time ready to act. If the one at the controls goes 'loopy' then the other shoots them. The likelihood of MAD is as likely as I am to go to Mars.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

poor buggers, what a choice, trump or hillary, go merica..

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

So Trump that side and Boris this side. :spin:

We live in interesting times.:erm:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I think you may have mis-read my post, as I said automatic counter-strike - no human intervention...

The two-key system is what the USA and the UK (on Trident) use - the Sovs (ex-Sovs now) used automatic 'launch on attack'; so if Trump did something stupid, we're toast...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Indeed. However I don't see how that supports the Remain argument? In or out that could happen.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

JUNCKER BLASTS DEMOCRACY: EU chief brands MPs who represent voters 'part-time Europeans'

In an outspoken address the EU chief accused “some of our colleagues” of listening to the wishes of their own people rather than pandering to the vested interests of the Brussels elite.

Mr Juncker claimed the “highly exciting” period which led to the catastrophic decision to create the Euro was now “totally gone” and had been replaced by division caused by certain countries wanting to look after their own people rather than the EU project.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...ritain-Cameron

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Quelle horreur!

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

pommes frites mayonnaise Chris :no:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's a frightening thought for the rest of the world

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yet another reason to vote Leave!

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

So the Express do have the video evidence for this speech in full where Juncker blasted 'part-time Europeans', so that I can review the evidence and context myself?

I'm a leaver, but this stuff about the UK avoiding TTIP by voting out is utter fantasy. Look at the ideologues running the country. They'd be bending the country over the barrel, lowering our food, environmental, pharmaceutical, etc, standards and inviting American private sector involvement in the NHS, because clearly they get such amazing value for money and outcomes there, before we have a chance to blink.

There is no way we wouldn't be signed up to something that makes TTIP look democratic and non-corporatist as soon as is feasible.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Should we win the No Vote here's how to deal with the trash

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

This is what we have been saying should we vote to remain in the EU. It doesn't matter what Cameron did or did not achieve:

EXCLUSIVE: Brussels plot to impose Euro law after EU referendum a 'threat to our freedom'

BRUSSELS is plotting to impose Euro law on the UK in a move which will cost the British people their “personal freedom” for good, a senior democracy campaigner has told Express.co.uk.

Plans to create a centralised EU prosecutor will fatally undermine our legal system and kill off the principles of trial by jury and ‘innocent until proven guilty’ which have been the fundamental rights of Britons since the Magna Carta.

Express.co.uk has learned that a European Public Prosecutor’s Office (EPPO), which would have sweeping powers to pursue British citizens, is expected to be up and running by the end of this year.

Today Christopher Gill, president of The Freedom Association, warned that the relentless march towards a uniform European legal system based on continental law, which was rebuffed in the early 2000’s, will get back under way as soon as Britain votes to remain in the 28-nation bloc.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Information on the proposed public prosecutor. It seems only to deal with EU wide financial fraud etc. However the I am sure the Express will disagree :D

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/criminal...r/index_en.htm

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-eu-trade-deal


As a leave result would put us at the back of the queue for a trade deal with the US I'm all for it. The longer the better.

Cameron would be gone and we would have time to let whichever government know we don't want TTIP.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

We vote to leave Cameron and Osbourne should resign, and a general election called.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Which given that Labour is in disarray and tearing itself apart, the Lib Dems a busted flush and the likelihood of Boris as PM would result in a landslide Tory administration. Is that what you really want?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

TBH I'd rather Boris than Cameron as PM, and I will never vote tory.

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------

Plus Cameron would have to resign because he wan't us to stay in the EU.

If reports are true its because of the fat pension he would lose if we leave.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

On that we can agree. :tu:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

What fat pension?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm not aware Dave has ever worked for the EU. Are you thinking of various other politicians, perhaps, who have obligations they have to keep in terms of not speaking against the EU in order to retain their pensions?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Now apparently our voting to leave might cause a world war my god I didn't realise how important the UK was in the EU after all these years we really are that pivotal. Politics of fear are becoming more and more pathetic and widespread, as far as war goes if the EU isn't stopped it will cause a war it's relentless push East has Russia feeling cornered and pursued. Ukraine is an EU disaster that wouldn't have happened if the EU had left well alone but the zealots within the EU will accept nothing less then total domination. My vote has been decided for a very longtime and none of the recent fear mongering has lessoned it one bit and I truly hope the majority of the UK start seeing the EU for what it is and vote to get out as well.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Dave is spouting unmittigated drivel now. Looks like project fear is eating itself alive.

The more loony the stay claims get, the more likely that a majority will vote for brexit.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

My God the scaremongering is getting worse - now it's WWIII which will ensue if we dare to leave the EU.

Listening to the PM, he made such a powerful argument didn't he. It's just a pity he didn't make the same powerful and passionate argument to the Eurocrats he was supposedly trying to get a deal from. It strikes me that if they were so worried about impending doom, they'd have tried a lot harder to keep us in. Odd that they're so worried now...

I really didn't know the UK was so important. Not that long ago they likes of the French were telling us to stop the whining and get out if we don't like it. Now there's a good chance we're going to do just that, they're telling us the whole world depends on us staying in. They'll be telling us the ice caps will melt faster if we dare to leave next. It's really quite laughable. Clearly some very powerful people don't like the idea of strong, independent nations acting in their own interests. They'd far rather the many were subjugated by the few and IIRC that's what we were fighting about in WWII.

IMHO war in the EU is a lot more likely if the EU remains fixed on its current course, bludgeoning member states into doing what they're told with a big fat club made in Germany and wielded by Brussels.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

NATO was formed to prevent a repeat of WW2, not the EEC as was. Does the European Economic Community sound like an elite fighting force?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

This is just a rehashing of a speach by Jean-Claude Junker in March.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-David-Cameron

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It seems to me that EU expansion to the east is one of the things which is rattling Russia's cage and I think that's far more likely to start the fighting as we've seen in Ukraine.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It does seem overkill although the speech didn't quite match the headlines preceding it. It was rather the 'EU kept the peace' argument rather than a 'there will be a war' argument.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Are you suggesting that the PM is a marionette with the EU pulling one set of strings and the US the other? :confused:

;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I hadn't considered the Eastward European former Warsaw Pact Countries coming into EU hands, it's no secret the Russians are antsy about that.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

There will also be a plague of locusts in the event of Brexit, and famine will be widespread. Time all Tory boys did as Dave tells them and vote Remain, do as you're told.

Seriously, he is starting to sound desperate, some private polling not going well ? The more he spins this cobblers, the more it's likely to have the opposite effect, just as Obama backfired. The economic argument should be more than enough, and is likely to have most effect. Nothing sways people's votes more than their own wealth/prosperity.

Just wonder how what the stories he'll be terrifying the populace with on 21/22nd June ? Dread to think at the rate he's going.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Equally, if something is that bad, and worth leaving, the people that want you to leave shouldn't need to make up scare stories to get you to do so.. Both sides are equally guilty of scare stories.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes they are and since all the argument is being dominated by the IN brigade and those on their side, they ought to be least in need of scaremongering. Maybe they don't have a very high opinion of us so they feel they need to predict doom in order that we don't give the wrong answer to the question... :shrug:

Anyway, I may be wrong but I don't recall hearing anyone eminent on the OUT side of the equation indulging in this level of hyperbole.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The iner's are scared witless. Dave only called the referendum because he thought it was going to be 2:1 to stay. Now there's a narrow margin for leave expect the hyperbole to move into overdrive. :(

"Britain Safer in Europe" What a great acronym: BSE :dozey:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I just want this over and done with. I can't believe how quickly this thing has become boring and surprisingly hostile. It dominates politics and things are getting pushed back until after the referendum, it's not clear it will end either because a Remain vote will quickly be followed by calls for another referendum whilst a Leave vote will have at least two years of discussions/debate/deal-making not to mention the Tory party infighting over the leadership for the summer.

I hope we don't have a referendum on something for a good decade at least after this.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm sick of all the scaremongering and the actual lack of any real facts from BOTH sides.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Tell that to the SNP. ;)

This has all taken up far less of our media time than the protracted US presidential election process to date so I'm not that unhappy about that.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The sooner its bloody all over the better in my opinion.:td:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

i'm a bit old for war but i fancy having a go aS an ARP warden-i could be chief doodle bug spotter
"they don't like it up em"
"don't panic its that hilter again "

BREXIT CONTAGION: Now nearly HALF of Europeans want their own EU referendum

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...apse-contagion

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

My French friends certainly do, the Euro was the last straw for many, the "invasion" from the Middle East" was for most.

Camoron's booklet arrived today. Returned without reading.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Why?

Both campaigns aim to secure your vote and will go about that in the way they see fit. You have no right to the impartial delivery of facts from either side. If you want them, you will have to go looking.

---------- Post added at 17:59 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------

New poll-of-polls has the race tied:

http://order-order.com/2016/05/09/eu...neck-and-neck/

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...05/1.png?w=900

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

So, third world war, :blah::blah::blah: Oceans rising to drown us :blah::blah::blah: Four horsemen of the apocalypse. :blah::blah::blah: Advent of The Antichrist. :blah::blah::blah: Financial melt down. :blah::blah::blah:

Face it Cameron. Project fear has shot its bolt and failed. Perhaps saner minds will prevail but don't bank on it.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It'd be ironic if we do stay in and then find a load of other nations pull out... :spin:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

In or out I think the EU will implode very shortly neatly solving the issue.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

oh the consequence of not pulling out sooner :shocked:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

A few crises throughout history could've been averted by pulling out at the right time.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes Hitler wouldn't have been born if his father had!:D:D:D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well perhaps you could point me in the right direction...seeing as I cannot rely on the media to give any facts and instead churn out all the spin from both sides and everyone on the internet re-tweets,reposts all this spin and lies..;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Both sides feel they are telling us facts from their perspective ,it's up to you to decide what you think are facts or not

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Tory rift grows as Iain Duncan Smith claims Germany vetoed EU reforms

In an interview with the Sun published on Tuesday, Duncan Smith accuses Cameron of having allowed Germany to “veto” key parts of his EU reform renegotiation. Duncan Smith said Berlin exercised the “ultimate power” over what changes the prime minister sought from Brussels and was allowed to block the idea of a cap on foreign workers coming to the EU.

He said a key demand was ditched, at the behest of Berlin, from the draft of a speech by Cameron just hours before it was due to be delivered. “It’s like they were sitting in a room, even when they were not there. There was a spare chair for them – called the German chair. They have had a de facto veto over everything,” he told the newspaper.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...er-immigration

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Those seeking unquestionable 'facts' and 'numbers' to support their decision are going to have a long wait. I'm basing mine on my experience of the last few decades of our membership and what we see unfolding before our eyes. If you want more of the same vote for it, it you don't, don't.

As for Germany's influence over the EU, some folks still doubt it but IMHO it's patently obvious who's actually running the show in Europe and, if they happen to conflict with Germany's, the UK's interests will always be kicked into the long grass if we stay in. If Merkel wants to have her cake and eat it, the least we can do is stop subsidising it.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...6&d=1462865479

Seems the leave campaign is re-focusing on Daves "reformed" EU which is nothing of the sort. We all know who the puppet master is.

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