Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Salmond needs to hi-five, Mason-shake or whatever this awkward thing is to show Juncker his love for the EU first.

http://s30.postimg.org/4d16449u9/hifiveo.jpg
(c) GF

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That's bending over and taking it like a man.:D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Some significant (and not so significant) stats here

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Guaranteed conservative government, minimal impact to exports, more productive population.

Win win.

I'm pro UK. But if, and it's a massive unlikely if, the yes campaign won. I really think Scotland would struggle and the remaining UK prosper.

But really, it's a big bag of unknowns, so best to leave it as it is.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

According to the Scottish sports minister, any Yes vote should not stop the UK government and lottery funding Scottish sports..

http://news.sky.com/story/1305878/ye...sports-funding

I'd like to ask why? I can understand the Lottery funding continuing, but not the UK government funding. If the Scottish want independence, they should pay for it. Why should we be paying for Scottish athletes to compete against us? After all, if you believe Alex Salmond's figures, they'll be one of the wealthiest nations on earth, so they'll be able to afford it.

Unless there is something the Yes campaign will not admit to.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You shouldn't. It's another example of the SNP wanting anything but independence with iScotland being propped up by rUK in numerous ways like power subsidies and banking guarantees.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Is this perhaps relevant to the stated aim of independence whilst retaining their Britishness?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Why couldn't they arrange their own lottery? After all, those in Scotland would no longer be eligible to enter the National Lottery.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's consistent with the SNP strategy of "everything will change but nothing will change", developed in recognition of the fact that the Scottish electorate has no appetite for the sort of radical constitutional change favoured by many nationalists.

They want to get a "Yes" vote without scaring anyone. Unfortunately, if they do, there will be no further referendums to prevent them remodelling Scotland pretty much any way they want.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

'cake', 'having', eating it' seems relevant as well...;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Channel 4's dispatches did an interesting documentary exploring both campaigns in the Scottish referendum.. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/d...es/4od#3725480

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Only a typical arrogant Englishman could make such an assertion...



;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

See you, Jimmie! :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Nae need tae be rude... :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It would be some shock now if yes campaign win....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It would be democracy in action - just as would the other possible result.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

More nonsense from the guess camp. This is one of their latest posters.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2014/07/6.jpg

Strangely enough they voted against a labour proposal earlier this year to increase the minimum wage and already have the powers to increase it. If you were a cynic you might think they will promise anything and everything regardless of whether or not they ever will or ever intend to implement it.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Did they really vote against it? That should be used more as ammunition from the No camp.

Incidentally a Panelbase poll over the weekend showed a 4 swing to No. It's Panelbase so it's not that great but considering it's the highest pollster for Yes it's something...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's the last, desperate throw of the dice.

The resemblance some of these Yesser posters have to the sort of stuff pumped out by Communist regimes is a bit worrying.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Taking a leaf out of Bliar's book I reckon. How long before they come up with the Proclaimers doing a nice tartan regailed version of "Things Can Only Get Better"? It'll be just as believable as Bliar's lies, spin and BS...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Alarmingly there seems to be a helluva lot of Yes posters springing up in people's windows in their homes where i live lately.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They're probably English Tory voters. :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The Yes campaign has always been very noisy. You could always put up a "No Thanks" poster. ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They say empty vessels make the most noise... :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

A YES campaign shop opened up in my town centre a few weeks ago with posters in the window and Scottish flags outside. The pub directly across the road from the YES shop has filled its windows with NO Thanks posters and Union Jacks. Next time I'm passing I'll take a few snaps. It's pretty funny.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I love the car stickers and posters saying Proud to be Scottish delighted to be united.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes they don't need to be mutually exclusive do they... ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Standard Life are taking their scaremongering seriously.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-Scotland.html

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Independent Scotland £1???

---------- Post added at 16:47 ---------- Previous post was at 16:46 ----------

Having had several lovely holidays in Scotland I have found, nearly always, that this is the attitude of the people. Good for them and here's to the No vote!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1406649978 http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1406649978 http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1406649978

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

"Scottish independence: Salmond in need of poll boost from televised debate"

"Scotland is on course to vote No to independence in September's referendum by a margin of 57 to 43 per cent, according to a “poll of polls” for The Independent.


Despite the heated battle between supporters and opponents of a breakaway, public opinion appears remarkably unchanged. Since March, the Yes and No camps have been within one percentage point of their current average rating."

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well if Scotland does go independent the US company I worked for which has slowly been moving moving to Scotland will move back to England.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I'm not sure if this clip has been posted on here before, but Lloyd Quinan says all of you that are going to vote no are actually bad parents. It's a couple of months old, so if it has been posted before then I need to pay more attention :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn2b...ature=youtu.be

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Bad parent?? lmao what a load of crap.

Things like that really make me more inclined to vote no.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Such a shame that the English don't get a vote. Of the people I know, we would all vote yes for independence. So why wasn't this vote made UK wide?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

So Scotland should let another country decide if it wants independance?

Aye right.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

More like the English should decide if England wants independance from the rest of the UK, there's polls on here showing a clear majority of English favouring independance.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I'm sure that's a varied and authoritative group :rolleyes:

You don't get regions of a country deciding to cast off others, in Scotland's case a nation wants to decide on its own destiny and is getting that chance.

If rUK started ditching problem areas then you'd have Lomdon going it alone and a lot of basket case wastelands.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

London could go it alone, happily.

We just charge them a hell of a lot more for their food and milk, etc.

We'd soon distribute the wealth, we'd Also control all Imports and exports via road and rail.

We'd also tax all the workers that commute into London.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They already do tax them with the cost of rail fares

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Or London could get food and milk cheaper elsewhere from those willing to supply it. ;) France for example. Besides London would take the South-East with it. Besides all the populist "let London go it alone" stuff comes from people outside London not inside. :p:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

if only there wasn't a pesky river to float things up and down :)

Anyway back to the reality of fantasists vs realists in the independence debate. Tomorrow it's Alistair Darling vs Alex Salmond in a live debate, could be interesting if the chair keeps Salmond in check and he doesn't just resort to cheap sound bites and 'freeeeeddoooommmm' references.

It's been nice the last 11 days to have a comparative break from this nonsense, roll on the 18th of September so this can be over, hopefully for a good few years.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Scotland are the only country that has a chance of carrying on with life as something approaching normal outside of a union with England and that is highly debatable. Wales and Northern Ireland would be financially inviable and have to instigate huge cuts and take huge hits to quality of life.

England really should have its own parliament though, one outside London.

---------- Post added at 08:01 ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 ----------

London's alleged wealth is massively distorted by the City and the many firms that have HQs there. In terms of median disposable incomes it gets more debatable as many have relatively little spending power after paying their absurd rents.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I would imagine an English Parliament would just be the UK one with the MPs representing the other members of the Union not voting/excusing themselves for English laws. Don't see the point of electing a whole new set of politicians. It's already the case then Parliament passes English only laws so just prevent MPs voting if they don't represent a English constituency.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Amen to that. I presume Bravemouth will do the decent thing and resign immediately and permanently if he fails in his quest to lead Scotland down the garden path and break up the union... :rolleyes:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That could still mean the party/parties in Government along with its policies would still be dictated by Scotland, Wales and NI. How would that be democracy and it wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else in the world. Especially as England being the largest part, is the one having a lower standard of democracy.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Apparently STV is having problems with the live feed of debate - it'll be more bullying I imagine... :rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Darling did well! I thought Salmond would grandstand and destroy him but nope!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That was astonishing. Salmond attempted to build a line of attack based on campaign frippery - silly comments about driving on the wrong side of the road or the likelihood of alien invasion. Utterly, totally incomprehensible how he could think this was a good use of airtime.

But the one thing that will stick with anyone who watched it was Salmond getting the full Paxo from Alastair Darling over the currency. What's plan B? And yet we still don't know.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Can't believe Yes didn't have a better answer to the the currency question or at least a better evasion tactic. I think their line of attack was designed to surprise Darling and get him to crack and/or send him off-message and off-plan leaving Salmond open to look reasonable and assert control. Backfired dramatically.

Guardian ICM poll: 56% Darling, Salmond 44%. I was sure Salmond would win that. Great performance from the underestimated Darling.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I will be surprised if Bute House now goes on to find time in Salmond's diary for a rematch on the BBC. Salmond is the one with everything to lose, and he's shown himself well capable of losing it.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Salmond, in my view, has nothing to lose. He is behind in the polls and just lost a debate. Expectations will be higher for Darling next time and lower for Salmond. If anything Better Together should avoid another debate.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Oh dear, that didn't go well at all for the Yes campaign.

Salmond got asked what the pension triple lock was. Just kept repeating that the triple lock was great and brilliant and better than anything there now. However that was just bluff and bluster.

It didn't actually answer the question of what the hell it was. Alisdair's great comeback was a rather in depth analysis of how pensions are funded and paid for. With the end being, not sure what triple lock is, that is for Alec to answer. However I bet what ever the UK offers he'll offer more :) hahaha.

Most answer went that way.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Salmond's been a big fish in a small pond for too long and forgotten that fact. Such is the power of ego...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I'm still astonished. I really didn't imagine Salmond could have done so badly.

For him to have any chance of affecting the polls, he needed to do brilliantly. He didn't even do competently.

Pandas. Aliens. Tories! Tories! Tories!

Pathetic.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Salmond is the new Clegg by the sound of it... :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:D

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/08/45.jpg

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...8/11.jpg:large

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

if you want a truly independent view of the likelihood of independence, just look at the bookmakers' odds (the only thing they are interested in is the likelihood of an outcome, not politics or spin).

At the moment, "No" is 1/6 to 1/7, and "Yes" is 7/2 to 9/2.

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/...rendum-outcome

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It'll be David Cameron himself pulling the plug on Scotland's internet connection while cackling in an evil way.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Salmond really isn't giving up is he!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-28691840

Now I am no idiot, I know a currency union would be the best option, however we have been told by more than one source that this will NOT happen.

However this idiot is still claiming it's Scotland pound as we've used it for centuries.

Now this is only true in the sense that Scotland is PART of the UK and if we leave that then it is no longer OUR pound.

Its that simple. He can't keep telling people that is a fact when it blatantly isn't. Would you really want to rely on a currency cintrolled by a different county setting interest rates and everything else? That would just be really dangerous.

Also in the paper today I read that he insists that we will keep the pound as the will of the Scottish people will force Westminster and the Bank of England to ket us keep the pound.

Honestly the guy lives in a fantasy land.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

No doubt all the Bravemouth talk goes down well with some Scots. Time will tell how many buy into his 'best of both worlds' rhetoric.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Unfortunately this is where nationalist thinking always leads. He demands recognition for the sovereign will of his people but has no regard for the sovereign will of other people in the process.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

As I've said before I think he knows the game is up it's all about getting the result as close as possible to enable the SNP to raise all this within the next ten to fifteen years. To achieve that he needs every remotely nationalist to vote yes and all the rhetoric is for their benefit. Sooner September comes the better and all this divisive rubbish can die down for a bit personally sick and tired of the whole damn thing now.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They're losing it. At the moment the CyberNats have gone full wacko and believe that the world's biggest oil field has been found just off the Shetlands Islands, a oil find so big it would turn Scotland into the world's richest country overnight, and it's being concealed. They believe the polling companies are not only rigging the polls but now also the debates.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re your link - there's a lot of Confirmation Bias in those comments.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's not looking great for the Yessers this morning. A Survation poll for the Daily Wail in the immediate aftermath of the debate has shown a significant swing to No. Survation's weighting methodology generally shows a higher number of Don't Knows and indirectly favours Yes, so this is doubly significant IMO.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...te-defeat.html

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/08/36.jpg

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Just know I will be bitterly disappointed come September. And I would like to know why only Scottish people are getting the vote, English Irish and Welsh should be allowed to vote as well. Or are they scared that allowing others to vote would see the Yes vote surge ahead?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Votes on cessation are held within the territory that would cecede. That's a pretty widely followed international convention.

The referendum is not about ending the united kingdom, it is about Scotland departing from it. If the other home nations had a vote, you could end up with a situation where Scottish voters opt to stay in the union, but voters elsewhere vote to chuck Scotland out. That would clearly be unfair, not least because there are about 12 times as many voters outside Scotland as there are within it.

If you would like England to end its relationship with Scotland, then you will just have to do what the Scottish nationalists have done. Found a separatist political party for England, then spend the next 75 years campaigning on it. Good luck with that.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Your super soaraway Sun has a new poll.

55% NO
35% YES
10% DK

Excluding DK, that's 61-38 in favour of No. A 22-point lead. Ouch.

(Yougov)

Paywall linkage: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...ependence.html

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's not just mark, there's a growing number of English.questioning what we get out of union, so much so the snp would be better of campaigning down here

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...h-independence

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well, there are only so many ways the SNP can say "we don't hate the English" before going on to slag off every aspect of national life south of the border, before people start thinking they might be telling porkies.

For what it's worth, the anger and intolerance that filters across the border is coming from a loud minority, which I am confident will become clear once the referendum votes are counted.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Pretty much static from their last poll although some of the work was done before the debate. Survation had a +4 swing to No which was encouraging especially since they're one of the more Yes-friendly pollsters.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Personally I think the final outcome will be in the 60-40 ballpark, so if YouGov is static at that magnitude of lead for No, I'm a happy bunny.

Yes has all the ground to make up over the next month and a bit and, in the absence of what the anoraks call a "black swan event", it's difficult to see how they're going to do it.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The only worry is a fundamental flaw in the way they're weighting/sampling voters. The fact there seems to be a wide discrepancy in the pollsters' numbers does feed that fear to a slight extent although it's quite unlikely.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Thankfully there are a lot of pollsters working on this and Survation and Panelbase, at least, seem to be running with a slightly different methodology.

The big question seems to be over how the voting pattern will differ from 2011. But however you weight it, No is in the lead and always has been.

---------- Post added at 10:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

John Curtice has some useful analysis:

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2...teady-but-low/

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It is. My only concern is a perfect storm of the polls underestimating the yes vote, Yes building up momentum in the final weeks, and a turnout difference. It's the worst case scenario admittedly but just want to be sure it's done.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Why on earth did the Yes bus go to Liverpool!?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:geez:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Have had to laugh at my friends trying to hijack some of my shared BT posts with Yes gibberish. They actuallysound like Salmond. Chris will testify this. Nonsense posts rubbishing claims and yet no actual facts to back it up with.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well they've been taught well by the master of the art - Bravemouth. He's been making it up as he goes along for years and some folks only like hearing what they want to hear.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I've just posted a fairly lengthy explanation of the Eurozone crisis on your page, Stephen. :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I noticed.

Blinded by the dark side, they have become.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

A change in tactic in recent days from the yessers, ironically after slating the no camp for being scaremongering and negative the latest attempt to woo voter is saying remaining in the UK will involves destruction of the NHS (a devolved issue already), massive reductions in Police numbers (a devolved issue already) so unless Westminster is going to remove powers from Holyrood they are telling porkies.

Also there has been more bullying from the Australian PM.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-28814936

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Salmond likes to portray all this as a friendly break-up and has described an independent Scotland as changing from a 'surly lodger to a good neighbour'. Underneath at that PR nonsense there is a general sneering nastiness which underlies the SNP's attitudes to the English in particular and their opponents in general. They try to dress it up in positives but they can't hide the fact that their campaign relies heavily on stoking up anti-English sentiment at every opportunity. Press them on the facts and it doesn't take long before things get personal and ugly which betrays, to my mind anyway, the reality of what they're trying to do.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Nice to see Wee Eck has a firm grasp on reality, and can compare like with like... BBC I may have missed the part in my History and Geography at school where Oz was a part of the UK with a common border....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Par for the course. Salmond and reality have only the most fleeting acquaintance.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

What I'm trying to work out is how Abbott's comments were offensive..Salmond's ideas on what offensive means don't meet up with mine.:confused:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They weren't totally supporting Independence, ergo, offensive....:D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Was Salmond bullied at school do you think?... :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Looks like ICM will show the Yes vote increasing. Ugh. We do not want them picking up momentum coming into the last month...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:waving: I do

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

No need to worry just yet.



---------- Post added at 08:30 ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 ----------

There is another poll out this morning commisioned by Yes and run by Panelbase, already that puts it on shaky ground.

It shows an almost 50/50 split until you read the methodology and find it was 1000 adults surveyed over 2 months ago. :rolleyes:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I'm not sticking up for Salmond here but I think he was referring to the comment about them not being "friends of justice".

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Almost as if they were holding on to it until they needed something to create the impression of momentum. But they wouldn't do that, would they?

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 ----------

The Undecideds are starting to decide and the polls, which have always had trouble working out how to weight for these, are all over the place.

As Derek pointed out, of the remaining undecideds, they are 2:1 in favour of No, which is what you would expect, No being Status Quo, which typically picks up in the last days of a constitutional campaign. The "excluding don't knows" headline figure effectively attributes the undecided votes 50:50 to each side, so in this case that 55:45 result is very flattering to Yes.

I still think we are heading for a No victory by 60:40 or better.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Once again, I will refer my honourable friends to those independent arbiters of likelihood, the bookies.

Latest odds on 'No" - between 1/6 and 1/10
Latest odds on "Yes" - all around 5/1

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/...rendum-outcome

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Unless I've missed a dramatic change, I'd hope the Yes and No odds are the wrong way round there Hugh?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Ooops!

fixed now - thanks.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Freudian slip I reckon... ;)