Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi found this, worth a read if you have not seen it already.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3636559.stm

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't but I know many who do. I have lost count of the number of people I know using things like Plesk, phpmyadmin etc. over regular HTTP.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 18:00 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------

So share your facts? I have seen half a dozen people now who have been told by VM CS that the system is live and there is no opt out. So if you have facts to the contrary as you state you do, please share them.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 18:03 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

Your connection is one of millions. You have no evidence they are not testing this technology with some of their customers so please stop assuming you know all when in fact you don't.

If people have been told by VM customer services that Phorm is Live and has no opt out, you nor anyone else has the right to call them a liar.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Half a dozen? Ok thats worrying. Surely even VM cant be stupid enough to go live with this without consent, without an opt-out?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wonder if the Phorm Comms Team will pay any attention to Daljit's next Phorm related blog entry...

http://understrictembargo.wordpress....e-phorm-storm/

States the obvious really, especially the last paragraph - but maybe Virgin Media don't understand that...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Looking back through the thread it's pretty obvious to me that it's CS's supposed statement that Sirius is doubting and the gullibility of YetiCatcher for accepting it.

I certainly wouldn't believe what VM CS state as fact when countless VM users are alert to it and hundreds of people running Dephormation haven't reported it.

Do you?
:angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i dont think virgin are stupid but isnt it in the t&c that trials/tests can be applied to the conx and also the pro-phorm people ie virgin/bt/cpwh are of the belief that this system is totally anonymose so no harm done!!:rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

that is an interesting one

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have a friend who works as a VM engineer and he is hitting a brick wall every time he asks questions about Phorm. He says it is not an isolated problem either, non of the engineers he knows have been able to get any info from the superiors about whether or not Phorm is already being tested. And he is not a nobody technician either, he is one of the people responsible for installing the upgrades VM are doing to a selected number of test customers with regards the next speed jump (50Mbit I think or something like that).

If VM won't even answer questions from their own engineers, how can anyone have confidence they are not already -at least- trying this technology? What do they have to hide from their own engineers?

I am becoming increasingly concerned that VM -are- actually running trials given the complete lack of public response to this issue and the number of customers who are being told by CS that it is already in use and there is no opt out.

I am not prepared to call anyone who has been told this by CS that they are liars or they are wrong and neither should anyone else given the very large shroud of secrecy surrounding this issue with VM at the moment.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:td: Just because BT/Virgin/CPWH believes its anonymous doesnt make it so and just because they believe it complies with RIPA doesnt make it so. Its up to a court to decide and I hope it gets tested in court really soon.

Correct me if I am wrong but didnt the Foundation for Information Policy Research, in their letter to the Information Commissioner Office ,argue that consumer consent was key and that a simple change to Terms and Conditions wouldnt be enough to comply with RIPA? Again would need to be something tested in court I reckon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If Phorm is live whats the best way of checking ?

Will dephormation alert me ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

A bit sceptical given that CS know nothing at the best of times

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't think VM are getting anywhere near the flak they deserve. They are content to let Phorm take it all.

There are hints of a VM takeover (project co-axial)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...richardbranson

If this is the case they will not want any mass defections of 'marketing opportunities', nor would they want anything about any possible trials coming to light.

I'm not saying thay have conducted trials, but the best thing to do with any possible take-over in the background is to keep silent, especially when it will also delay mass defections.

The cost of a scandal or mass defections, in a take-over situation, will dwarf the potential profits to VM from Phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok followed a link from the badphorm website to get to this blog:

http://seanprice.net/blog/2008/phorm-talk-back/

That blog includes a response that PhormTechTeam emailed to him and I quote:

"We believe that, given the chance to understand our technology, people will reach the same conclusion as Privacy International and external auditor Ernst and Young: that Webwise represents a major, postive breakthrough in online privacy."

Now, to be fair to Phorm, its unclear precisely when this email was sent but the timestamp for the blog itself is dated today. If their email to this blogger was sent in the last few days then it seems Phorm are still peddling the lie that Privacy International supported/audited them when in fact it was 80/20 Thinking. Do they not get it? Every time they lie, obfuscate, mislead us, that they damage their own PR argument that "you can trust us" etc

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Under RIPA, the government are still required to gain a court order before initiating interception of a suspect's communications, and to get that court order they must presumably convince a judge that there is just cause.
Once Phorm's hardware is in place, the monitoring of everyone's internet traffic will be constant and persistent; so should a change of statute be made after that point in time, the data will already have been aggregated ready for big brother to browse...

I agree with you that if RIPA can be used to kill this Phorm deal, it'll be ironic :p:

---------- Post added at 20:52 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

I wonder how much longer these supposedly intelligent people at Phorm and their PR firm can continue to "believe" that UK ISP customers will "reach the same conclusion" as Ernst & Young, when everywhere they turn on the internet they see posts like those on this forum. It's been a month now, we've all been "given the chance to understand" their technology (more like: we've managed to find out how it works despite their best efforts to obfuscate) and we're still saying "**** OFF"

Wireshark
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Anybody had one of these ...

Thanks for getting in touch with our team recently about the complaint you had about your Virgin Media service. We're always sorry to hear when things don't run exactly as you'd hoped, and we hope that things are now sorted out for you.

In fact, that's what we're writing about. At Virgin Media, we want to make sure we give you the best customer service we can. So we'd really like to find out how things went for you when we dealt with your issue.

We've put together a few quick questions about how things went, and we'd really appreciate it if you'd take the time to let us know your thoughts. It shouldn't take longer than around one minute to complete.

By finding out exactly how things went for you, we'll be able to understand the things we're getting right, and if there's anything you'd like us to do better. And we promise to use your feedback to make improvements where we can.

If you'd like to take part in our survey, just click the web address below. Or you can simply cut and paste the entire web address into the web address box of your internet browser.


[link]

Thanks very much in advance for your help.

Yours sincerely,

The whole team at Virgin Media

It goes on to say

Satmetrix Systems, a leading provider of customer experience management solutions, will be conducting the survey on behalf of Virgin Media

customer experience management solutions - leaves me feeling really warm and cuddly.

Q1 - Satisfaction with VM customer support.
Q2 - Likelyhood to recommend to friends and family.
Q3 - Reason for dissatisfaction.

Privacy manager indicated my name being pulled back several times, presumably via a cookie from VM webmail.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Haven’t had one but wish I had as I can answer two of those right now.

Q2 - Likelyhood to recommend to friends and family.

Absolutely, completely and utterly never ever under any circumstances. Would advise any and all who will listen NOT to use VM.



Q3 - Reason for dissatisfaction.

Many reasons, all of which can be summed up in one word; Phorm!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I got one this afternoon, in the would you recommend, I said "not a chance as long VM goes ahead with Phorm, and here was me thinking you had turned the corner and were starting to get things in order."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Virgin are as slippery as they come. This is something I’ve known for some time. I’ve avoided all their products & services successfully for many years all bar the cable service, of which you have no choice. Want cable broadband, you have to deal with this company :/

Whether it be opt in or opt out (you can even shake it all about!), any ISP that deals with a bunch of snakes like phorm deserves to lose a significant amount of its customer base. In trying to make a few more pennies a year with phorm they may in fact lose the pounds as users scramble around switching not just their broadband connection but their telephone and TV services too!!!

VM have the most to lose over this phorm fiasco, more so than BT or CW which is why it’s strange that they still appear to be pursuing it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, let's face it. They might be a media company, but nobody will ever call them auntie will they?:td:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Rest assured, user migrations will not stop VM or any of the other ISPs involved from deploying this technology. Even if 50 000 people leave BT they still stand to make substantially more from Phorm than they will lose from the migrations.

You have to be a realist when dealing with such issues and that is why we must concentrate on the criminal aspects of this issue under RIPA.

Of course, that's not to say we shouldn't keep up the campaigning and try to educate as many people as we can, and it doesn't mean people shouldn't leave VM, BT and CPW but it is important to note that this battle will not be won by migrations.

Furthermore for every person who migrates out, there will be another person who doesn't know about Phorm or doesn't care, who will migrate in.

Dig in, put your helmets on and clean your rifles, because we are in for a long war.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

im not in for a long war just in untill theres confirmation that phorm is live then bye bye as they broke there t&c's then ill be looking for suitable compensation also if it has been illeagally stealth rolled out.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And me

Here was one of my answers

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

OK, I'm painted as being gullible and thick... I can live with this :-) !!

So how do you test a transparent proxy assuming it's using port 80, 110 & 25?? Tracerouting won't work... and after BT's fiasco do you really think this will be cookie based?? (even in testing mode)

I honestly don't have any beef with VM. The services I have do pretty much what is written on the wrapper. Their internet conections have an up-time far greater than BT's (I'm watching an entire BT exchange with huge packet loss at the moment).

I was asking whether anyone else had noticed my obsevations - and no this is not an error with the double http form posting. I may be a newbee here, but 1 posting and you're making assumptions??? Tom

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Does anyone know whether this is restricted to VirginMedia, or will ntltelewest customers be included in this phorm rubbish?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have received a reply from one of my MEP's that I emailed last week. In my original email I forgot to ask permission to post the reply here so I have followed it up with that request now and if I get an email back giving the nod then I will post it here.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If you get really bored look at the 1 day chart - you can see the morning is spent quickly dumping the stock purchased the previous afternoon (on returning from the Pub?). Then new investors get back from the Pub and start the whole cycle again. I'm sure the markets have a name for this - anyone?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Interesting spot and dagnabit... now I am peeved. The stock is rising. Its up 3.52% today. The increase in the online petition has slowed dramatically too. ARGH! :banghead:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just thought I'd mention in my reply to Ian Woodham (VM's Data Protection Officer) I asked him directly:

"Please confirm that there is no equipment provided by or in any way connected to Phorm on the Virgin Media network."

The reply was dated 19th March so I wouldn't expect to see a reply until the start of April. If/when it arrives the relevant part of the response will be posted here.

Then if Phorm is detected as present on the VM network before any announcement is made there is something to nail them with.

Remember that webwise and oix cookies will appear in your browser if you visit sites that are signed up to oix. That means visiting The Guardian's website will get you the cookies.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I am really rather intrigued by that, perhaps you could give an example of the webwise and oix cookies that you are receiving from the Guardian website.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

After looking at the shares for Phoirm I started to read the comments....... I am alarmed by this latest one by parax.
The more I wonder the WWW looking at phorm the more I do not want to CON-phorm to this.

Roll on Friday and BT line.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Everyone who connects to Virgin media's network is a Virgin Media customer. There is no such thing as an NTL or Telewest customer now.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Visiting http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/...ate_lives.html (for example) will get you a Dephormation pop up advising webwise and oix content is there.

That's assuming you have the Dephormation add on installed in your Firefox browser.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What about ntl:telewest business accounts? I would have thought they they still use the Virgin Media network, but havent been branded as yet

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Pump and Dump if that is really it. A stock like this will take lead from the US though so most activity will happen after the US markets open, thus active afternoon trading.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I see... Buts that's simply a warning that the page viewed had a URL that contained oix.net, oix.com, phorm.com, webwise.net or webwise.com within the page - it does not mean that you have received a cookie...

Including, for example, this link http://oix.com/ in this post will cause Dephormation to give it's advisory warning.

edit:

This is how the author of Dephormation is searching at the moment:

I expect as more information becomes available the search will be refined.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No such thing as an ntltelewest customer any more you are all customers of VM (look at the logos on your bill) so this will apply to any VM customer.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You don't need permission to post responses from politicians. Everything they put their name to as part of their job in response to a public enquiry is public domain.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You most likely are correct Alexander but considering the fundamental issues here are matters of privacy (notwithstanding the interception angle too) I feel its important to keep the moral high ground and not leave myself open to accusations of hypocrisy by posting without asking permission first.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What I generally do when writing to MPs is include in the correspondence that I will be publishing their response online. But it doesn't really matter as a politician should always assume that anything they say to a member of the public in an official capacity may or will be used in the public domain. In fact I would go further and say that anything a politician does not want to say on the record, should not be said at all under any circumstances, given the Freedom of Information Act it is likely that at some point in the future it will come back to haunt them.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

All good points. I really should have thought to include in the letter that I would be publishing the response. This is the first time I have felt strongly enough about an issue that I contacted an MP/MEP. In the heat of the moment didnt think of it.

Will ensure I include a similar phrase in all future correspondence, such as to Liberty (I just managed to fix my printer so a letter will be winging its way to them to follow on from my email last week) and then am good to publish the response if there are no objections.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

speaking as a website forum owner, I was wondering if anyone had found a short but acceptable sentence to put on each webpage denying Phorm the right to mirror, scan etc.

What I have so far (can't remember where I got it from, so apologies to the author):

That's a bit much to put on every webpage! (notice I've updated some of the wording as well as adding NebuAD for good measure!)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I thought that for web sites Phorm were hoping to get away with 'implied consent', so how about a simple:

"Intercepting, scanning or profiling of this page contents for the purposes of behavioural advertising is prohibited."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Great Spoof report on phorm just in case people havent seen it:

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.c...dline=s5i32484

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i find it very odd that theres been no Phorm copy after the holiday, and so far nothing on the wires other than that distastful spoof and a re-link of an old Guardian post, very odd indeed?.

on a general note this blog has some interesting legal points.
http://www.tjmcintyre.com/
taken from a users v ISP/Phorm POV rather than this ISP being forced to give up Safe harbor and monitor under court order, the loss of the safe harbor


given that the Phorm signed ISPs, have freely entering into this contract and are (or propose to)collecting, selecting, and modifying information to pass onto Phorm for/to comercially profit, are they infact giving up their Safe Harbor protection rights.

any lawyers reading want to finally give their personal comments on this matter?

also has anyone (i assume BT users first, as they already had the Phorm trial) considered the injunction options open to you from the small claims courts?

Wednesday, February 13, 2008
Sabam v. Tiscali (Scarlet) - English translation now available

entry looks interesting

"Scarlet wrongfully considers that this injunction would result in its loss of the safe harbor from liability contained in Article 12 of Directive 2000/31 ... that benefits a provider of mere conduit or access to the internet conditioned upon it neither selecting nor modifying the information being transmitted;

That in accordance with “whereas” clause 45 of Directive 2000/31, “the limitations of the liability of intermediary service providers established in this Directive do not affect the possibility of injunctions of different kinds; such injunctions can in particular consist of orders by court . . .

requiring the termination or prevention of any infringement, including the removal of illegal information or the disabling of access to it.”

---------- Post added at 04:54 ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 ----------

i wonder if Virgin Media's new STB will have something like comcasts box.
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...y-wants-spy-tv
Comcast denies it wants to spy on TV viewers

Computer users also not targeted
By Egan Orion: Tuesday, 25 March 2008, 5:22 PM

"
CABLE GIANT Comcast is backpedalling furiously away from the unguarded revelation by its Senior Vice President of User Experience, Gerald Kunkel....

The bombshell was dropped by Chris Albrecht at newteevee.com a week ago after interviewing Comcast's Kunkel at the Digital Living Room conference in San Francisco. There, he said Comcast is "experimenting with different camera technologies built into devices so it can know who's in your living room."
...
"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

New link stateside which mentions Phorm in addition to some of their competitors:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...ivacy-battles/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...n_phorm_uturn/

Nice, the Guardian have decided they don't want to be a part of this. It's about time.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: One down, many to go. Wise move by the guardian and yet more bad coverage/PR for Phorm. Great news.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Great news!

I smell blood....

:cleader:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/v...px?ciid=836361

LOLPhorms are go! :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Very good news...

One or two investors may have caught the news...

Phorm's share price seems to have started on the downward trend. :)

edit:

I imagine Phorm's PR team(s) are at this moment using the powers of the Great Spin Generator...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This is indeed excellent news.

Well they've tried to spin it on the Register's report. However, whatever spin they try to offer they can't get round, under or over the fact that the Guardian advertising manager has said:

It is true that we have had conversations with them [Phorm] regarding their services but we have concluded at this time that we do not want to be part of the network. Our decision was in no small part down to the conversations we had internally about how this product sits with the values of our company.

I hope you appreciate that the quality of the Guardian's editorial is funded by our advertising sales operation and it is our duty to keep abreast of all developments in this sector. In this instance, however, I agree with you that this is not something that we should be partnering.

Anyone reading from a company interested in dealing with Phorm note the point about how this product sits with the values of our company.

The recent commentisfree blog by Zoe Margolis and the majority of sensible comments there (apart from the Phorm PR squad and one truly sad person obsessed with masturbation) may also have served to educate people.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi all
Hope you all had a good Easter? With reference to the above discussion, the Register article in the Guardian neatly highlights the two central issues here: protecting online privacy and needing ad funding to pay for Internet services. Of course people are concerned about the trade off they think they have to make between getting a personalised service on the one hand and giving up personal data on the other - we agree that they shouldn't have to make that pay off. So are you happy to be served targeted ads by companies that use your personal data and store it for more than 12 months before it is even anonymised? Surely it is better to have a system that stores absolutely no personal information, no IP addresses and no browsing histories - like us or not, that's a better privacy environment than you currently get.

Online ad targeting is not going away; something the Guardian confirms in its statement. The reason that we've had such an enthusiastic response from the companies that we meet is that the Phorm system can earn ISPs and publishers - big and small - more money to plough back into the services you receive today - most of them for free. If not ad funding, then what other way is the Internet going to be paid for? Most Internet publishers have abandoned subscriptions because not enough people are actually prepared to pay when it comes down to it.

As always, if you have any queries or want any more information, visit www.webwise.com or www.phorm.com

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The thing you're missing here is that many people would rather have fewer free services than compromise their privacy - and I know you say you won't, but (a) we don't believe you and never will, and (b) you can never guarantee that no-one will hack into the systems or otherwise abuse it.

We all deserve the peace of mind that our ISP doesn't compromise our privacy for the sake of a smaller bill. Phorm and its ilk are just wrong in principle, never mind your economic argument. Somehow the internet has surivived without you, and it will continue to do so.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Straight back to the trenches after the Easter holidays. It must be very boring going to the same old forums posting the same old spin which doesn't answer anyone's questions.

And just as I predicted you've tried to spin the Guardian's rejection of Phorm by completely ignoring the one issue that really hurts Phorm. I'll repost it here in case you missed it:

Our decision was in no small part down to the conversations we had internally about how this product sits with the values of our company... In this instance, however, I agree with you that this is not something that we should be partnering.

The Phorm brand stands for intrusiveness and invasion of privacy. Phorm has done NOTHING to demonstrate its trustworthiness. When an organisation with a public moral standing such as The Guardian says "no thank you" then it is clear that Phorm falls short of a decent standard of moral conduct.

Remember Sir Tim Berners-Lee, the man you want to "re-educate"? (Oh, the arrogance!) Let me quote him again in case this fact hasn't yet penetrated your minds. On his internet browsing data he said:

"It's mine, you can't have it"

And here's another quote for you. One you should recognise...

"As you browse, we’re able to categorize all of your Internet actions," said Virasb Vahidi, the chief operating officer of Phorm. "We actually can see the entire Internet."

Still claim you're trustworthy now?

The easiest way to silence a cynic is to prove him wrong openly and honestly. Hopping round forums spouting the same old spin isn't going to do that.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How about this for a compromise: Instead of VM monitoring my browsing habits (which is actually very inaccurate. Just because I visit a website doesn't mean I have any interest in it*), how about asking the customer to voluntarily supply the necessary metrics to VM (I could describe my interests (say Electronics, Spurs, etc)? At the end of the day so long as you deliver an appropriately-targetted advert on behalf of your clients, it shouldn't matter to you how the data is collated.



* Example 1: When the BNP/heroin photo news article came out, I wanted to see it for myself. One of the sites I tried was the BNP itself. That doesn't mean I want to see BNP-related ads in the future. Example 2: My partner uses my connection via router and laptop. There is no way for VM to differentiate between which computer is doing the browsing, so it is just as likely to serve me Tampax adverts instead of my girlfriend.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Welcome back to the forum PhormUKPRTeam

Yes thank you I had a good easter. I hope you did too. I am currently spending all day at home waiting for a repairman to come fix our fridge/freezer. Ho hum.

Two salient points in response to your post.

1) Freedom of Choice: I see a wealth of difference between say google, yahoo etc and your system. As I and others have said before, with phorm being at the ISP level, in effect you get to get profile us on the totality of our browsing habits. In essence, if I dont want google, yahoo, (insert other company here) profiling me then I can easily choose to change to another or spread my searches and browsing around. It is not so simple to change Internet Providers. No doubt you will argue that we have choice in that we can turn webwise off or "opt-out" but considering the paucity of information coming out of Virgin Media and yourself regarding exactly how this system will work I remain yet to be convinced. Coincidentally, Virgin Media really need to wise up and start dealing with this rather than just hanging your client out to dry. This is not going away.

2) Quid Pro Quo There is no de facto quid pro quo where webwise and the Phorm system is concerned. As has been pointed out many times the anti-phishing technology is nothing new and most likely no better than the anti-phishing technology already existant in IE7 and Firefox. Similarly, "more relevant ads" are actually pointless for me and I expect many others too. I dont look at online ads and I have no intention to start. If I want to buy something online then I will go look for it myself and speak to friends to get their recommendations.

I acknowledge you raise important points about other companies storing data but again, I must refer back to my point above about the fact that I have a great deal of freedom. I can choose to share my browsing around different search engines. Phorms system effectively profiles me based on the totality of my browsing and provides nothing in return. To take your oft quoted example of gmail, they provide an easy to use, convenient web based email service with large storage. Yes they profile and store data but if I so choose to, use their service I get something with real value in response.

Trying to argue that the revenue the ISPs earn from this will be ploughed back into our services really is a staggering example of disingenious PR in my opinion. Virgin Media is already one of the most expensive Internet Providers and is in a huge amount of debt.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

E1 - 1 hit does not make a pattern. E2 - if it is a different computer and different cookie then this is irrelivant. The only time this will occur is if both you and her use the same computer with the same logon (or no logon).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't know about those.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yep, great Easter, thanks, hope you enjoyed the break yourself - you needed it! Glad you're back, things were getting a bit one sided while you were gone :Peace:

Definitely not! I totally agree with you! ( See, we can agree on some things :D)Which is why I do my best to block all ad cookies and other things with my browser add-ons
In theory, yes (oh dear, I'm agreeing with you again, this is getting to be a habit!) But at what price?

What I'm against is my internet browsing being hijacked, mirrored, scanned even though I'm going to opt out. I also object to the Phorm software scanning my private webforum. Where is the opt out button for website owners?

Also, what worries me, is that although you make various promises, both here and elsewhere on various blogs etc, a lot of what Phorm says contradicts itself, or is a downright lie. How can we believe what you say? For example, What did Virasb Vahidi recently tell the New York Times? “We actually can see the entire Internet.� How does that sit with your post above where you suggest that Phorm is on our side privacy wise? Also, there is the matter of the Phorm patent. If you want to create and foster an attitude of ' your privacy is our highest concern' then why does you patent say different?

Your turn . . .

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Again, you ignore the point. A lot of people don't mind advertising (targetted or not). They don't exactly like it, but they consider it a necessary evil. Most people probably wouldn't be too bothered about being monitored if the ISP was open about it (none have been so far), or they were getting a service for it. No, I do not count Webwise as a service, because it does something most modern browsers already do for free.

You mention other online ad services. I can only assume you mean Google. Google do track you (and are fairly open about doing so). But, for them to track you, you need to sign in to one of their services. Sign in is optional on their search (which does, admittedly, record your searches against your IP, which Google are fairly open about). If you sign in, you also get a good email/IM system, a news aggregation service and access to enhancements in some of their software. The software is also free. If you sign in, you are also tracked through Google Ads. Fair enough.

However, if you are not signed in, you can still prevent yourself from being tracked (should you so want). Just disable (or block) javascript in your browser.

Phorm does not offer this option.
Oh, I have no problem with internet advertising, as I have said before. This site is funded by adverts, I'd be a hypocrite to moderate here if I hated them.

It's the underhand way the monitoring is done that I have a problem with.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I just had a feeling we would be hearing from you today. Yes, I did indeed have a good Easter, thank you.

I trust you and tour team did also, perhaps you were able to spend a little time actually investigating some of the issues raised rather than relying on what Phorm pheeds (sorry, feeds) you. Or perhaps you occupied your time by updating your CV to reflect all of the good PR work that you are doing for your client.

Public opinion does seem to be swinging in your favour, the ever increasing petition against this technology, the falling share price, potential advertisers pulling out - hmm... yeah looks like you're winning the PR game.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Bottom line for me is this i was against phorm from the beginning and when the phormpr team came into it all it has done is nothing but harden my stance towards phorm. PhormPR your not really interested in addressing anyone's concern's your a little mechanism to spread the pre-prepared statements from your client and you don't even care that most of the statements are at best misleading and at worst an outright damn lie.

What i want and what everyone wants is someone to come on this and all the other websites and talk to us about the technical aspect and answer those concerns you cannot or will not do that. So do your client a favour and go away your pouring petrol onto a well burning fire and having about as much impact as a pea on an elephant's ass.

I know the mods asked us all to be polite towards you but i am now really struggling to be anything other then rude and insulting to you as thats how your acting towards us with your drivel of crap regarding a system you don't know about and don't care how it affects anyone as long as your cheque clears.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

For those of you claiming there's no such thing as an NTLtelewest customer, I have "Examined the logo at the top of my bills" and it's the same logo appearing on my ISP's homepage : http://www.ntltelewestbusiness.co.uk/

So my question stands, is phorm being used on the business arm of virgin, or just the consumer arm?

The back end is clearly not the same as there's no STM for business customers and we have better contention ratios

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Already addressed:


It's also worth noting that NTL:Telewest business is a seperate company. They just happen to use the same cable network.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You just dont get it do you.

WE DONT WANT YOUR SPYWARE

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

your mistaken, the so called back end is exactly the same, your VM/NTL/tw supplyed CPE CM/router plugs into the very same end user UBRs at the other end, they just choose not to STM you at this time.

and so,potentially can be subject to all the Phorming they might wasnt to perform, the question then is, will Virgin Media be silly enough to include the as yet non VM branded cable business accounts as well ?(they said they would re-brand at some point remember, stuart).

thats yet to be answered OC, as is the case with all the other questions...., they keep mounting up.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You best start singing for your supper mate because at this rate Phorm won't have any money to pay your wages. You have failed, epically.

Let me give you an example of how the web works. I used to own a website called dvdr-core.org a controversial website which ended up getting me sued for $150 million USD. But lets forget that part for a moment (since it is irrelevant as no judgement has ever been made against me by a court) and look at the relevant part of why I chose it for an example.

We had a cluster of server in the Netherlands which cost around $8000 USD per month to lease. We had no ad revenue as we had no ads, we had no private investors and we had no money of our own to fund the project. Yet the bills always got paid because the users, who valued the service offered by the website, opened their wallets and sent us donations.

My above example is not alone, there are 10s of thousands of websites out there that survive on donations one of the bigger ones you might recognise is Wikipedia. Ad revenue is NOT the only way a website can make revenue, if you provide a service people want, they will pay, it is that simple. If you provide them with nothing they want, they will never visit you again.

The ISPs could very easily increase their revenue simply by increasing their prices. People are not going to dump the Internet and all the benefits it gives them just because their ISP fees go up 5-10 GBP per month. With music rights people (Fergal Sharky for example) looking like they are going to offer ISPs a revenue incentive by including music downloads into ISP services at a flat rate (which it has to be said was inevitable) ISPs will soon be in a stronger position financially. The same is likely to happen with IPTV services and Video on Demand services. ISPs don't need to become Criminals under RIPA to make money, they simply need to offer their consumers services they want and lets get one thing straight here, consumers do NOT WANT PHORM.

You have lost the battle, your share price is at an all time low and you are starting to lose partners. Your product is a brand killer as clearly stated by the Guardian today. I hope you end up in the dole queue and I know I am not alone in my sentiments.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: for Alexander.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: I second that. Well said Alexander.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Y'all making me blush ;)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hear hear!!!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alexander for Prime Minister!

Seriously, your posts, both here and elsewhere are excellent. Thanks for all your hard work on this.

Ali ((huggss))

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Another article on phorm showed up on google news:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3...to-values.html

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

A very good question from The Register (Apologies if i'm crossing any etiquette boundary)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...turn/comments/

webmasters do you know what you're signing up to?
By Anonymous Coward

"Does anyone have any clue on why a webmaster would sign up to this service for his site, as if the visitor is interested in the sites content, then surely phorm will roll out a load of competitors ads, to distract the visitor. Maybe I'm just not fully tuned in with what is going on here."

On a light aside, 'The Apprentice' has just started on the box (getting used to freeview), I think you can see Team Phorm in all their glory!

---------- Post added at 21:27 ---------- Previous post was at 21:08 ----------

I read on a financial site that Phorm will be placing their 1.6M shares from the 27th March onwards. I know nothing about the stock market apart from the fact that watching Phorm shares drop is fun, just and inspiring.

Could anybody with any financial nous explain what we should look out for? In my simple world, they are 'placing' them at 2000p, but I know where I can buy them cheaper (the open market!!) so where are these shares going to go?

Am I right in thinking that a merchant bank underrights all this, so that if the shares are not sold, the bank buys them for 2000p? If so, what will the bank do with a tenner that will be worth a fiver in a week or so?

What should I look out for on channel PHRM tomorrow?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

just a recap of what we already know but this time it's on the
Digital Civil Rights in Europe website.

so you can be sure MANY EU wide govt personel and others are now being made aware of Phorm and its partner ISPs.
http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number6.6/phorm-uk-ifpr

they dont reference the register though, and thats a crying shame, given chris's massive and continuing contribution to the subject, and starting this all off.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: :clap: Well said Alexander

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thank you Alexander :nworthy: - we need to keep this issue on the boil.

I'm beginning to wonder if the deafening silence from Phorm since before Easter is the latest strategy from the company: lock-down, say nothing and wait for everyone to drift away before going live with the system....after all, "engaging" with the customers didn't go too well, did it? :D

(It might have gone a bit better if they'd been open and honest about exactly how the system works, but the fact that they didn't want to do that speaks volumes...)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

To give them credit, they are doing better than VM.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't think that is the right word...maybe "marks"?
I think that is the term used by con-artists, isn't it?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I wouldn't consider a talkative mugger to be any better than a silent one, if he was stealing my wallet at the time. What these two companies are planning to do with my data is nothing short of robbery.

As Sir Tim Berners-Lee says, "It's mine - you can't have it. If you want to use it for something then you have to negotiate with me, I have to agree; I have to understand what I'm getting in return."

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:28 ----------

...Sheep, maybe? Lambs to the slaughter?

---------- Post added at 22:51 ---------- Previous post was at 22:28 ----------

Once again, you've completely missed the point.

You can't use the "need" to pay for the internet as a reason to infringe people's right not to be placed under surveillance. The data that you are so keen to get your hands on does not belong to you, and many of the people that it does belong to do not want you to have it.

If, as you claim, the internet cannot survive in it's current form because of a lack of funding, then so be it: let it change to something that is sustainable. I'd rather have a smaller internet than know (or suspect) that my every action online is being watched and "digested" for somebody else's profit.

Am I happier to be spied upon by Google than by you? Damn right I am. For one thing, they give me something useful, and for another I can choose to have nothing to do with them if that is my wish. Your offering fulfills neither of these criteria. Would I have a problem if Google wanted to hardwire a surveillance system into my internet connection? Hell yes. But they are not proposing that, and you are. So your comparison is meaningless.

And please don't make out that I'm currently getting something for nothing: I already pay for the internet. It's called an ISP subscription, and it's not an insignificant sum. If Virgin Media can't make ends meet with their customer fees and other existing revenue streams, then I'd rather they put my subscription costs up than install Phorm. (In other words: I'd rather pay the true cost of the service than have it subsidized by being spied upon)

Finally, I'm afraid I can't visit your websites for further information: they're already blocked by my router. Any information you are obliged to give me regarding my internet connection you will kindly do through the official channels of my ISP.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I quite agree, but we have on the one hand Kent Wossisname and on the other, Richard Branson, as the public face of the muggers.

Quite apart from the damage this is doing to Virgin Media, what about the other Virgin brands?

There is a precedent for what could happen if a business sector cannot be trusted to act with responsibility. How would it be if Virgin Media was regulated as tightly as Virgin Atlantic?

If a business model is 'just to stay this side of the law, hopefully', rather than to pay even lip-service to ethics, it ought to be regulated to the hilt, as airlines are.

---------- Post added at 23:25 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------


And I'm b******d if I would want to fly in one of Kent's "Rusty Migs".

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Now there's an interesting point... has the bearded one (if he's connected at all with VM) said anything about Phorm? Does he know that "his" brand is getting dirtier and dirtier by the day through its association with Phorm?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:LOL:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He must do, and I keep thinking of him looking over my shoulder as I type!:nono:

If he wants to sell the branding, he has to take the flak.

I will not be spending £200,000 on a Virgin Galactic ticket :dozey:

Virgin Media, the Virgin brand and anyone associated with it (hands up Laughing Boy) need all the bad publicity we can give them.

It's only phair.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

he's still the largest share holder, but doesnt run the VM company or have a seat on the board AFAIK.

the VM board of directors, alongside paying for the 20 year lease of the Virgin name contract, pay RB a seperate PR fee for being the face of Virgin Media when they want to call out the big guns.

expect something real soon now if he gets to know his Brand name is looking to take a pasting...

im sure someone here might go and ask his executive office for an official comment on this and other legal points and include permission to publish the replys ;)

go on you know you want to.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Paste it!

I am amazed that Richard Branson's name should be linked to a brand that is trying to take dreadful advantage of it's customers. Richard, you have enough money.

Virgin Media is secretive, uncommunicative and evasive regarding an issue that is of major public concern, way beyond the confines of it's own customer base.

In my opinion, Richard Branson and the Virgin brand will be forever linked with an underhand attempt to invade the privacy of it's customers and set a precident for others to follow, unless Virgin Media renounces all links with Phorm and Phorm-Like companies now.

Richard, if you value your reputation and if you have no control over Virgin Media, you should renounce your relationship with them now in order to protect your good name, and swallow any financial penalties you may incurr.

People do not fly with brands they do not trust, either across the Atlantic or into low Earth orbit.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It's too late for my tired eyes to find the executive board contact details (If anyone else finds them, please post them here?) but I did come across this on the Virgin.com website under "Responsible Business Practice"

"We at Virgin believe 100% that we owe it to our customers and our staff to ensure that our future economic growth is built on firm, ethically sustainable business models. Businesses need to be bold and creative, to develop radical new products and find alternative ways of doing business. Since innovation and creativity are at the heart of the Virgin culture we feel that our group of businesses are well placed to take advantage of the opportunity this presents."
Richard Branson

Someone please explain how Phorm is ethically sustainable?

Anyway, bedtime calls.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I managed to find a link to Dicky Boy's companies. If you dig down enough you can find their customer service e-mail contacts.

http://www.virginbeer.com/Contact/ContactACompany.aspx

I think they should all be warned that a dodgy company is about to start intercepting their internet communications with their customers.

It may be that they need to be warned several times by several people because this is a really serious threat.

---------- Post added at 02:39 ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 ----------

By the way, does anybody know where Virgin Atlantic customers discuss all their bits and bobs?

I've no doubt that many of them book their flights over the web and they certainly deserve to know of the potential dangers inherent in doing so.

Just a thought.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

this link gives
http://investing.businessweek.com/bu...rivcapId=36312
120 Campden Hill Road
London, W8 7AR
United Kingdom
Founded in 1970

Phone: 44 20 7229 1282

Fax: 44 20 7727 8200

www.virgin.com

but im not sure if it's the direct link to richard branson's chief executive office though.

if not, they will be able to forward your letters perhaps.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

(from the Virgin.com website): Sounds like a good place to start. If we inundate them with questions, and ask for Virgins (and RB's) official line on data interception, we should wake them up.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm down 8% already this morning, always a good start to the day :)

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=LON:PHRM

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Here is a really pretty picture.
http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/deta...&timeframe=480

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Share price has taken a real beating this morning. Is this down to the Guardian announcement or is there something else in the offing?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So Phorm want to issue 1.6M shares at 33% higher price than the markets are currently trading their stock...should be interesting ;) wonder who is gonna buy them then?

Phorm seem to have failed to realise that it doesn't matter how many shares you issue or at what price if no-one wants to buy them :)

They have only had 2 buys all morning everyone else is dumping their investments faster than a street dealer dumps their stash when the popo drive round the corner.

Someone needs to stop the world so Phorm can get off.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 11:37 ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 ----------

More bad press for Phorm http://www.newstatesman.com/200803270043

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 ----------

"BT, TalkTalk and Virgin are all signed up to trial Phorm's technology. But given the barrage of bad press it has received - culminating this month in virtual excommunication by the high priest of the worldwide web, Sir Tim Berners-Lee, they would be crazy to pursue this plan." man I knew there was a reason I loved to read New Statesman.

---------- Post added at 11:40 ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 ----------

"Over in Germany, the constitutional court has just delivered a landmark decision on data privacy that backs up this instinct. In essence, the decision accepts an individual's online behaviour as an "expression of personality", an activity whose integrity and confidentiality are fundamentally protected in German constitutional law." <-- Interesting

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'd still be interested to hear why, when you bear in mind that I take absolutely no notice of web ads (apart from on cableforum, where I need to monitor them to ensure Google doesn't advertise anthing against the site's rules), targetted ads would provide any benefit to me. Targetted or not, I wouldn't take any notice.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for the link. Commented on there before Phorm's spin machine posted its standardised bulldust spin.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just thinking, possibly out of my rear orifice.

The age of consent (no, not that one)...

Yes, I know, parents should all be aware of their children's activity on the internet. However, let's ignore that for the moment.

Assume ISP/Phorm are using a per PC cookie based opt out system. Let's say we have a young child, aged 9 or 10 for example. They have their own PC for their exclusive use which shares an internet connection via a router. Is the child in a position to give "Informed Consent" (as RIPA requires) to the profiling of their browsing behavior?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Very occasionally the ads placed next to (and semi-targetted at) an email that I'm reading in Gmail are both accurate and useful but I'd agree that generally targetted ads would pass me by.
Not least because I don't see most of them (thank you, Adblock!). About the only ads I routinely see are on websites which I deliberately "permit" to show them to me, like CableForum.