Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36160189)

He is only power due to a coup in 2014 though. It suited the West to support him at the time. Does that make him legitimate ? I dunno

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36160195)

While the coup didn’t directly elect Zelensky it laid the ground work.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36160192)

He’s banned opposition parties, trade unions and (as far as I can tell) elections. In no way, shape or form can that be considered democratic. Especially when your number one policy is to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian men by conscription.

Both of my claims have been reported in the Ukrainian press.

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/21242
https://kyivindependent.com/ukraines...-mobilization/

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:clap:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36160206)

So how, democratically, do the people of Ukraine remove Zelensky if they decide they’ve paid enough in blood for tens of square kilometres in the months of the counteroffensive?

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36160204)

Zelensky was elected in 2019. Again, the idea that the present Ukrainian government is illegitimate because of events in 2014 is a talking point actively promoted by Russia.

These sorts of things ought to be beyond question. Indeed, the OSCE monitored the 2019 election and while it had concerns about the conduct of some candidates its overall conclusion does not dispute the veracity of the final outcome.

https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/ukraine/439574

Be careful that your healthy desire to be a free-thinker isn’t being exploited for propaganda purposes by a country presently engaged in an illegal invasion of a sovereign neighbour and widespread war crimes.

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You are Margarita Simonyan and I claim my ₽5,000,000,000.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36160206)

So how, democratically, do the people of Ukraine remove Zelensky if they decide they’ve paid enough in blood for tens of square kilometres in the months of the counteroffensive?

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36160210)

Wow!

Why don’t you ask Ukraine if they’ve stopped beating their wife, if you’re in the mood for loaded questions?

Or to put it in your terms - "have you actually started believing your own* lies?

*may be from other sources…

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36160214)

The short answer is there’s no way to remove Zelensky. Except by a bullet.

That’s not a democracy and you know it. That answer would be sufficient.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36160208)

You clearly favour the present occupation but why? I am curious.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36160216)

Much like the U.K. during WW2, then…

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36160221)

I don’t recall the UK banning opposition parties that actually sat in the House of Commons.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36160222)

I recall them banning pro-Fascist parties.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36160217)

Where do I say I favour the present occupation? You’re taking my legitimate questions and portraying them as representing something they don’t.

It’s a straightforward question that - in a true democracy - would be easy to answer.

Ironically the safest place for a Ukrainian man who doesn’t want to die on the front line is Russia.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36160224)

You are assuming that the Ukrainians, as a nation, are being forced against their will to defend their homes, children, etc. This is not true.