Cable Forum - Post-Brexit Thread

Nigel Farage was forced to admit the referendum on leaving the EU was only “advisory” after he clashed live on TV with the lead claimant in a legal challenge to the Government on the issue.

Quote:

Ms Miller insisted the UK has a representative democracy which ensures politicians have to debate issues, and suggested that if Parliament had wanted to give away its sovereignty over the choice to trigger Article 50 and leave the EU, “the Referendum Act would not have said it was advisory”.

nomadking

09-11-2016 11:28

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35868286)

It's not about delivering what they promise it's about continuing to make statements of fact like the £350m to the EU that were knowingly misleading. The aim is to try and prevent this type of thing happening in the future.

It wasn't £350m, it was MORE.

Quote:

The figures, from the UK's current account published by the Office for National Statistics, say that, before the application of the rebate, the UK's gross contribution was £19.6bn a year - about £376m a week.

1andrew1

09-11-2016 13:44

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35868702)

It wasn't £350m, it was MORE.

The UK doesn’t pay or "send to Brussels" this higher figure of £18 billion, or anything equivalent per week or per day. The rebate is applied straight away, so the UK never contributes this much.
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

My point is that politics should not descend to the point where people know that the figures they are quoting are wrong but quote them over a period of time repeatedly. It's plain dishonest. We're talking of facts here, not opinions of what-might-happens.

pip08456

09-11-2016 13:51

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35868741)

My point is that politics should not descend to the point where people know that the figures they are quoting are wrong but quote them over a period of time repeatedly. It's plain dishonest. We're talking of facts here, not opinions of what-might-happens.

So the ONT are wrong? Perhaps the Brexit campaign should've qualified the £350m with "before rebates" but it doesn't change the figure.

nomadking

09-11-2016 14:00

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

The rest of the EU are/were hell bent on scrapping the rebate. The rebate is a consequence of the UK having to apply EU tariffs on non-EU goods because we have a history of trading with the Commonwealth countries. It also took more than 10 years before it was put in place.

1andrew1

09-11-2016 14:05

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35868743)

So the ONT are wrong? Perhaps the Brexit campaign should've qualified the £350m with "before rebates" but it doesn't change the figure.

The amount of £350m is not sent to Brussels every week and that was the claim. See the factcheck.

Mr K	09-11-2016 14:05

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

The UK Statistics Authority wrote a letter rubbishing the £350m figure at the time. However leave campaign ignored them and continued to use the figure
https://fullfact.org/blog/2016/apr/u...ly-misleading/

heero_yuy

09-11-2016 14:07

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35868741)

What, like this "fact"

Quote:

Leaving the EU would cost UK households £4,300 a year making them “permanently poorer”, chancellor George Osborne said on Monday, hours before the government publishes its long-term assessment of the economic costs of Brexit.

Speaking to the BBC on Monday morning, Mr Osborne claimed that the Treasury’s gloomy forecasts represented the economic facts

Balderdash!

1andrew1

09-11-2016 14:23

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35868748)

What, like this "fact"

Balderdash!

There's a significant difference between predictions - however bad they might be - and incorrect statements of the current situation. I don't condone Osborne's statement for one minute.

I appreciate that not everyone is willing to accept this difference.

RichardCoulter

09-11-2016 16:05

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

Independent report on individual membership of the EU for those that want it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7405196.html

Personally, if I wanted the benefits of being a member of an EU country, i'd obtain dual nationality.

1andrew1

09-11-2016 16:21

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35868772)

The EU's not a country so it seems a strange proposal to be an EU citizen not tied to a member state. Can't see this happening.

RizzyKing

09-11-2016 16:43

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

The 350 million claim\lie\exaggeration was totally irrelevant to most who voted to leave as was the entire campaign their vote was cast the minute the referendum was announced and was never going to change. Least now we're not alone we have company from across the pond that are in the process of being called uneducated, racist and ignorant so gotta look on the bright side :D.

1andrew1

09-11-2016 16:56

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35868784)

Am I a pedant in wanting future campaigns free of factual inaccuracies designed to nudge a few per cent over the line? Possibly but I can but hope.

Damien

09-11-2016 17:01

Re: Post-Brexit Thread

I'm not sure why the 'uneducated' thing bothers people. First of all it's usually put less offensively than that, i.e without a college degree, because uneducated implies something different. However there is an actual divide between those with higher formal education and those without and it's something that should be talked about because it appears to be an increasing divide. People without for example may have learnt a profession only to see it die and found nobody who cared because more jobs were being created for those with a degree. This was a one of the big theories behind things like Brexit and Trump no? That globalisation has 'left people behind'?

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