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What a utterly shambolic state politics is in this country.

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Likely to be deeply frowned upon by the electorate.

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Indeed but they will get even more fed it with a disunited party warring among themselves.

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This lot are shambolic but do people really want the Venezuelan alternative?

Start queuing for bread and toilet paper.:rolleyes:

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Corbyn is a a very poor leader but if the electorate decide they have had of enough of this utterly shambolic lot then Bobs your uncle no matter how bad the opposition leader is IMO as the one thing the electorate do not like is deep disunity in a governing party...

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At the end of the day Mick 'hard or no deal Brexiters' are in the vast minority. Both in the Conservative MPs and the country.

I know it's a disappointment but we're going to be 'aligned' to the EU following their rules, with no say. It's worse than now, but better than the hard-line no deal alternative.

The Brexiters didn't have a plan, which is unbelievable . The country has got itself into this mess, and we have to do the best we can. Those that voted for Brexit can't avoid some of the blame, they should really have thought it through rather than follow knee jerk populist tabloid headlines. However they were lied to massively by politicians now trying to save face and rescue their own careers.

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Agreed. The feedback I get from people I know who voted either way on Brexit is she's the best of a bad lot (across all parties), finally showed some leadership skills on Friday and whilst many don't agree with the decision, she has been elected and paid to lead the country and that's what they want her to do as it's how democracy should work in this country.

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Interesting to see the two themes that I mentioned earlier in the year coming together on Friday. The backstop agreement meant a soft Brexit and the Brexiters' lack of a plan meant there was no alternative to clinging tightly to the EU. Here's Sky News's take on why Theresa May triumphed on Friday.
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-joh...-turd-11429837

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I shun any blame because there is none. It is pathetic to call anybody or blame people who used their democratic right to vote one way or another - it is disgusting that blame is being levied on any one but that is very typical of you Mr K.

Brexit will happen because if it does not, it will be the biggest democratic let down in British history, many people will never vote again, ever and I will be one of them - do you really advocate mass voter apathy because that is what will happen?

Lastly - I made an instruction to stop referring to Brexiteers as "hard" or "extreme" - There is no such thing there is just Brexiteers, people who voted to leave answered one question, they voted to leave, this does not make them any other thing, so stop using such terms!!!

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 ----------

Conservative Backbench backlash is growing over the Friday Chequeres Brexit meeting, with some Tory MP's suggesting this morning, they have no confidence in the Brexit deal and thus have no Confidence in Theresa May....

A Conservativehome snap survey suggests 3/5 Tory Members are unhappy with the deal.

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...r-britain.html

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They either have the numbers or they don't so we'll see if enough of them send letters for the leadership contest or not.

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Please can you help with the links that reinforce this statement, OB? Dave had plenty from various sources saying the opposite so it would be good for people to read the other side's view as well to get a full picture.
Many thanks.

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l suspect a lot of it is hot air.

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agree most of it will be

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So what ? conservative party numbers are a tiny ever declining number of OAPs. They don't represent the country or even those that voted for Brexit.

TM may fall as a result of Brexit, but if she's put the country ahead of her own career then good on her I say. The leadership of the Tories is a piffling issue. Seems others in her cabinet are now more concerned about their own ambitions than any Brexit red lines they once had.

Brexit, as we've seen, seems to mean a wide variety of things. Hence the need for the people to have the final say on the terms of any deal with the EU. This isnt a rerun of the referendum, it's a very different issue.

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I take it Mr_K that you expect the EU to accept the details in the white paper. If so dream on, it won't happen.

As I said (perhaps) thousands of posts ago Article 50 gives one option on trade. You leave, you're out. That does not preclude a future trade deal presumably during the 2yr transiion preiod. There is no such thing as hard or soft brexit. There is only brexit.

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I think people expect the EU to come back on this deal yes, it's a starting position not the final proposal.

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Let's not forget here... ALL EU Member States have to agree, if one member objects, the deal on offer from May is rejected. There is now several EU States that are becoming opposed to everything the EU stands for, not surprising when it is a corrupted entity, but still, with the likes of Poland and Italy, let's hope these countries say no, because what's being offered is not actually Brexit.

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I doubt anyone expects the EU to accept the UK's White Paper in its entireity but after two years they must be relieved to have something from the UK!
The transition period is not two years, Pip. Brexit Day is 29th March 2019 and the transition period ends 31st December 2020. Three months will probably be quite important here.