Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34613643)

after BTs FTTC/H the local loops will be very similiar to VMs in terms of amount of fibre, and there has been indications VM will keep STM on docsis3 but we will see.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34612501)

No insult was intended, but you are very quick to criticise VM, and very slow to mention the possibility that other ISPs also have problems.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34612501)

No insult was intended, but you are very quick to criticise VM, and very slow to mention the possibility that other ISPs also have problems.

My statement about Cable not being distance limited, and ADSL being distance limited isn't opinion. It is fact.

Copper (as used in Phone lines) *does* have an effect on speeds. Over miles (unless the cable is specifically designed for high bandwidth signals, as VM's network is). This is why the cable network backbone is fibre, and copper runs are relatively short (as you note, less than 200 metres)

Basically, the problem as I understand it is signal loss. Now, I know that there are networks that use miles of copper for high bandwidth applications, but these use specially designed cable , and use various techniques to minimise signal loss. This techniques are not practical to use on BT's network.

BT's phone network was not originally designed for data transfer, hence the fact there can be miles of cable between the user and the exchange, which is what slows data transfer.

Not that I am defending VM's publicity. While it doesn't explicitly state that the entire network is fibre (the ASA would leap on them if it did), it does very strongly imply that, which is wrong.

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004 (Post 34628869)

Stuart, copper is copper, whether it is used for miles or less than 100 metres it still has a detrimental effect if you believe vm's a BS, or are we to believe that the copper from the coax into the modem is some kind of special copper sourced from vm mines?
I am quick to criticise VM because I pay them a lot of money, so if I think what they are saying is BS I will say it, and it is not a matter of any agenda, im paying for a product I will have my say no matter who disagrees with it.
VM say copper used in BT telephone lines is not ideal for data transfer, what they forget to realise is that the last bit of wire going into the modem contains a six letter word, ------ whether it is miles, as you put it, or 100m makes not a tuppence of difference, sadly VM think we are all idiots.

Originally Posted by homealone (Post 34628881)

There is a difference between copper single core wire & coaxial cable using copper for the core and shield...

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004 (Post 34628893)

Thanks for that ;)
But would we agree that copper is copper?

Originally Posted by homealone (Post 34628899)

yes, but how you arrange it is the key, try running network cables with & without twisting the pairs, both configurations involve copper, but only one will work over a certain distance..

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004 (Post 34628905)

I appreciate what you say, thing is vm make copper out to be the devil incarnate, forgetting for the sake of drawing in customers that their own broadband network uses copper,all I am doing is showing the vm BS for what it is,but I appreciate and agree with what you say.

Originally Posted by homealone (Post 34628911)

ok, cool, I'd call it marketing, rather than BS, but I agree they are trying to 'big up' the idea that they use fibre optic cable for some of the network, while keeping quiet about the fact is isn't to the home...

Originally Posted by Broadbandings (Post 34628917)

Cableco's in the US have jumped on this bandwagon too, specifically since Verizon started rolling out fibre to the home en masse, so it's not a Virgin specific thing anymore though they were the first!

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/W...d-You-Do-97296

Originally Posted by homealone (Post 34628928)

bloomin' marketeers, it always sounds good in the meeting, because they don't invite anyone who would be critical..

Originally Posted by tvtimes (Post 34614310)

What would the need be for keeping STM on docsis3.0 though and where have you heard this from?:)

The only reason shaping takes place now is because there are too many like minded inviduals eating up vm's bandwith and affecting other peoples speeds who don't use up their connection as much. But with DOCSIS3.0 there will be bandwith contraints so should be no reason for shaping?

Originally Posted by homealone (Post 34628911)

ok, cool, I'd call it marketing, rather than BS, but I agree they are trying to 'big up' the idea that they use fibre optic cable for some of the network, while keeping quiet about the fact is isn't to the home...

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004 (Post 34628893)

Thanks for that ;)
But would we agree that copper is copper?