Re: The energy crisis
 

:D

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How many of them actually had electric heating?

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C'mon Pierre, the Government doesn't have its own money; it has our money. You were warm at the expense of ordinary people, some of whom were aged and huddled under blankets because their decency was their penalty.

Many here will understand what you are saying but it can't be condoned, and I think you are man enough to admit fiddling with meters is poor form.

You were a very naughty boy (but we still love you :D).

Re: The energy crisis
 

Ethically stealing from a person results in a clear, direct loss to that individual.

Stealing from companies where the price bears no resemblance to the cost of production there’s no evidence that impacts on the price for anyone.

Re: The energy crisis
 

But stealing is wrong, right?

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Morally I’d say it’s a grey area depending on who from. Robin Hood and all that.

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I will. I need a bit of time.

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If you're starving is it wrong to steal bread, I'd say no but what if you don't like bread, what if you like electricity, aaaannnnndddd the defence rests

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Ever the nerd, I love this site - https://gridwatch.co.uk/ You can see how much electricity the country is currently (arf!) using and how it is generated. As of 1645 today, 37% of our electricity comes from wind power while 31% comes from gas. I was surprised how much solar we had in the UK. At it’s peak, 3% of our electricity needs were met by solar power today. Not bad for a murky day..

Re: The energy crisis
 

But look at the longer term figures. There are times when wind power has dropped to a tenth of that.
An added complication is that although it is called a national grid, there can be localised shortages.
Eg This July

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Thanks for a timely reminder for January when we see who faces blackouts.

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Oh, without a doubt, the issue with wind is it depends on the weather of course. However, it is certainly a useful buffer, reducing gas usage at least some of the time. The localisation thing is a good point, I have seen the UK both import and export electricity at the same time in the past.

The worst case over the coming months would be a ‘beast from the east’ situation where we have high pressure and no wind with clear skies and so freezing cold

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Has anyone had their next Energy Support payment yet? Bulb isn't as quick as last time for me.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Three months in my new house and I still haven’t had any contract paperwork from Scottish Power. You can be sure, when they do eventually start billing me, that if they bill me back to my move in date I’ll be checking that the discounts are correctly applied for all the months they should be …

Re: The energy crisis
 

According to the Bulb website ;

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Not had mine from Octopus yet either.

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I got an email from Bulb today saying they have credited my account with the latest payment

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The first one we got on the 8th of October so l would expect the next one will probably be next week.

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Just got it too

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Our account was credited yesterday with the second payment

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Give all the monies I am getting , it seems I am making money just by have gas and electric . It's just crazy !

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Umm, we aready have control over our energy use, regardless of meter type. Its an old article though.

Well you are obviously an exception, very few peoples bills will be less than what they are giving.

---------- Post added at 20:22 ---------- Previous post was at 20:19 ----------

Thats an old article as well, from back in August, before the current cap of £2500.

---------- Post added at 20:25 ---------- Previous post was at 20:22 ----------

Just logged into my account and yep, they have also credited me. :)

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Was with SSE, but SSE have moved over to Ovo.
Not sure what's going on with the EBSS credit. At first Ovo credited to my account, now they seem to have taken it away.:shocked: Assuming as November DDs were still via SSE, the credit will be applied to my bank account as the October one was with SSE. Weird to see my Ovo balance drop in a matter of hours since this morning.

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Totaliy agree my standing order is £40 per month fixed rate set up for 3 years has 6 months still to run , have air sourced heat pump , triple glazing and full insulation. Still think help could be targeted ,giving those that need it more and people like myself nothing. :erm:

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my electric bill for last month was £32 leaving me £34 in credit

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Well it's taken till the 3rd November, but given in and turned the heating on.

Going soft in my old age....

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Woosey!

Must be all that living in Harrogate…

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I've been ill and as a consequence can't stand the house to be warm.

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Me neither but I was over ruled... Hope you're better now.

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Recovering slowly

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It's all those big posh sandstone houses off Cold Bath Road, like Harlow Terrace....


Meanwhile up in land of Boro, temperatures have dropped quite considerably in the early morning, enough for the heating to come on to get the house up to 18c

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New nuclear plant at Sizewell C 'could be delayed or scrapped altogether' in review
:banghead::banghead::banghead:
It's not like there's an energy crisis


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...ell-c-28405854

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Toasty! I reluctantly turned my thermostat up to 13'C yesterday as it was feeling a bit chilly.

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We had frost on our car this morning and the garage roof is still covered even though it's in the sun.

The central heating has come on and, even though the temp outside is due to reach a heady 9°C by lunch time, I'm not letting John anywhere near the CH remote control to turn the heating down..... so there!!!!!


Cranky old lady mode fully engaged.

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Isnt that in the risk to health area ?

---------- Post added at 09:36 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

Absolute lunacy if it is delayed or scrapped

Re: The energy crisis
 

"Reviewing" could also include accelerating the build, not necessarily just cancelling - at one of the places I worked, we used to review our "Five Year Plan" every year, because things changed year to year, and some stuff got higher priority (and funding), some got less, some got cancelled, and some new stuff got added.

Seems a fairly sensible approach to me…

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Don't worry, I take my jumper off if it gets too warm.

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I admire the optimism. ;)

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So we must have a Smart meter to qualify for the money off energy scheme? Less than half of the UK currently have a smart meter, I'm not planning on getting 1 installed for this.

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There is no other way of doing it.

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Do you have a Smart Meter or plan to get one?

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I do not and no way no how do I want one hahaha

As soon as everyone has one tiered tariffs will become the norm and you will be charged more at peak times. They could change the prices multiple times a day even. Hate the idea

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Yes I don't trust them and the reason I avoid.

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And those without smart meters are likely to end up having a higher tariff instead to make up for it.

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I've scrolled through the menus on our electricity smart meter and it has four different totalisers each for a separate tariff. Currently is defaulted to rate #1

( Button B rotates the menus, button A scrolls)

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Yeah all this it will save you money is a con and always has been

---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------

yeah sad truth :(

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Just because a smart meter has a particular feature, doesn't mean they are allowed to use it without rules.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63477214

Interesting is perhaps a stretch but I found this article that documented decades of Government policies - often contradicting the preceding Government - indicative of the lack of long term planning in UK energy policy.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yeah I read that this morning. We’re just not very good at doing anything whose payoff is likely to lie outside the current electoral cycle. There are loud rumblings that Northern Powerhouse Rail is going to get cancelled - again - despite cancelling it being of no present benefit to the task of dealing with the ruined finances, because much of the building and therefore much of the spending is still several years away.

Plus when it comes to nuclear you can add the article of faith in certain parts of the Left that it’s A Bad Thing, which caused Blair’s government to equivocate on it for too long, and caused the Coalition to vacillate and eventually devise a mucky compromise that suits nobody, and which will for the foreseeable future prevent Scotland from generating any meaningful base load of its own, because the SNP knows that keeping the left-leaning part of its internal coalition happy requires them to disavow it.*

It’s a sad state of affairs that we have had so few people in public life with the strength to do what’s right for the country.

* While energy policy is reserved, the SNP has continually threatened to call in any planning applications HMG might make to any Scottish local authority for building a new nuclear power station. The planning inspectorate in Scotland isn’t an independent body, but … the Scottish government. In theory, wonderfully democratic but in practice just another way of one elected body overriding another. Ironically exactly the same sort of thing the SNP loves to moan about vis a vis Westminster, but that’s another rant.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I’m hugely entertained at the specific mentions for the left, the SNP and the Coalition for Britain’s failings yet the party in Government for 30 of the last 43 (if you include the Coalition years) don’t get one.

Like a Scooby-Doo villain they could have achieved so much if it wasn’t for those pesky kids.

Although I agree with your point - they’re absolutely not going to stand up for what is right.

Re: The energy crisis
 

On the contrary, it ought to be obvious from my discussion Northern Powerhouse Rail that the present incumbents of HMG are highly complicit.

My previous post puts the boot into the present Tory government in the first paragraph, the Labour Left, complacent Cameroons and opportunistic liberals in the second paragraph, and the SNP in the footnote. Which is where I’d prefer the SNP to live permanently but again, that’s another rant.

A plague on all their houses.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Northern Powerhouse Rail is perceived to largely benefit Labour-voting areas and Sunak seems has form on moving money towards Conservative-voting ones by changing funding formulas.

So cancelling it wouldn't be a large vote-loser for the Conservatives. Therefore, Northern Powerhouse Rail is not just a victim of short-termism, is also a victim of party politics.

Re: The energy crisis
 

:tu:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Email from Bulb.

They need to increase my DD from £93 to £94.17, can't see their logic here as the app says I have a balance of £350.56 but it also says I'm in credit with £191.56.

Atleast they're not trying to up the DD to £150+ I guess.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Hopefully you bulb lot will soon switch to the Octopus system and can manage your own direct debit. I assume they will intervene with those who can not manage theirs but those who can do simple maths should be fine

Re: The energy crisis
 

We can currently manage it with a minimum amount which currently says £84.75? Lol, just surprised they're changing it for me, normally they email and suggest I either lower or raise it.

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Jeez, what do you live in? That's really low.

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They might be knocking the Government £66 off.

Re: The energy crisis
 

2 bed end terrace, currently just me and work shifts of 6am-2pm and 2pm-10pm if that makes a difference with 25 year old conventional boiler, a 9 foot patio window doesn't help in the livingroom that doesn't get the sun.

Just had to switch heating on an hour early on 19c though.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Your boiler is past it's sell-by date, it's probably costing you money, I know they're pretty expensive to get a new one, but, if you can afford it you will save in the long run.

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They're not like wives mate you don't just swap it for a younger model;)

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I've just had it fixed, had the option to change it at £3000+, I chose not to as happy how the bills are.

How much is your monthly bill on your modern boiler?

Re: The energy crisis
 

New boilers break down, old ones keep going.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The new regs demand boilers run radiators at 50c. For this to work, you may have to have ALL your radiators and pipework upgraded.

That won't be cheap. Our local council is replacing end-of-life condensing combi boilers with the new standard, and are warning tenants that "installation will be very disruptive in most rooms of your home".

Re: The energy crisis
 

With radiators having to be 3 times the size, heat pump systems are not going to be great.

Re: The energy crisis
 

If you need to triple the size of your radiators for a heat pump installation, then your radiators are inadequate even with a gas boiler. They’re probably very old, not at all efficient and ought to be replaced anyway.

Worst case in a UK home is likely to be a 2.5x increase, but don’t forget that in many cases that can be achieved by using double or triple panelled radiators with convector fins.

Re: The energy crisis
 

With a heat pump system, the radiators operate at a much lower temp. The tank of water used is lukewarm at best.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I just want a decent electric boiler that I can just swap over for my gas boiler and everything else stays as is. Not sure how far off we're at getting something like that?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Heat pumps operate better at lower output temperatures. The best balance between temperature and practical radiator size is 50*c. This, as it happens, is the same temperature the latest regulations require gas boilers to be operable at. 50*c is also definitely not lukewarm and is easily hot enough to burn your hands. 50*c is more or less what you’d want coming out of the hot tap in your kitchen.

So if you’re getting a new gas boiler and it’s running at 50*c you’re going to have to match the radiators in the house to the new, lower operating temperature. And that’s the same operating temperature as a heat pump.

All this ‘yeah but no but heat pumps don’t work’ is nonsense anyway. Heat pump usage in Europe is highest in some of the coldest places, including Norway where 60% of homes have one. Heat pumps absolutely do work, they do however require an attitude that heat energy should be conserved, rather than carelessly leaked out of the walls.

The British problem is that we burned coal in our homes for two centuries, and that coal was so cheap we never really had to think about keeping the heat in.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

I chatted with a local authority housing officer a good few years ago about ‘wet electric’ boilers, which he had had installed in some council houses that were off mains gas. They exist, they work, but they’re expensive to run. Some larger houses require a three-phase supply when they have an electric boiler because the boiler by itself can be drawing as much power as a standard single phase domestic supply could handle. Some premises with a big heat demand but where three-phase power was impractical, had smaller boilers installed which proved to be inadequate. They were removed.

I’ve seen them installed in flats and caravans and in those small situations they work ok. But if you’re going to use electricity to heat a house, these days you really ought to be installing a heat pump. A wet electric boiler will draw 10kW of electricity and deliver slightly less than 10 kW of heat to the house. A heat pump will draw 4kW of electricity and deliver 10kW or more in heat. It’s a no-brainer.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Link

37°C is body temperature, ie lukewarm. A person will output more heat than that, mainly by breathing out of warmer air.


The heat pumps that are used in Norway heat the air, not a tank of water.
Link

I once lived in a house that had a central heating system that relied on the warm air being distributed to the rooms.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You may want to try using sources that aren’t 10 years old. I’m heading out shortly so no time, but suffice to say that modern installations need not provide 40*c at the cylinder. They can reach 50*c with an adequately sized cylinder, or 60*c or higher if you add an additional pump inside the house to convert room heat to hot water.

With a heat pump it’s never about whether it can or can’t ‘do’ something. It almost always can. It’s always about the systems installed to manage heat storage, distribution and retention in the home.

The means by which heat is delivered to houses from Norwegian heat pumps is irrelevant to my point - they work, and they continue to work at far lower external temperatures than most of us experience in the UK. The reason people in the UK think they don’t is because our houses are appallingly badly insulated. That’s why warm air ducted heating was only ever a passing fad in the UK, almost invariably replaced by wet radiators after the system became life-expired. If your house is draughty, full of open flues (or badly sealed ones) and with inadequate wall insulation, then the warm air fed through the system is too quickly lost to the outside.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My issues were with the disruption from installing a heat pump system. Larger radiators, larger tank, location of external equipment.

Water temps are irrelevant to the Norwegian air-to-air systems. No water tanks or radiators involved.


This year.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My" garage" looks like a NASA control room , between solar panels/ batteries and heat pump , happy to pay engineer to keep it set to optimum , still have combi boiler no idea why he thought to leave it , said it's a backup. Any way house is comfortable , and bill very low , waiting to see is sky rocket when fixed rate dies in may . Would like to move off grid but just love my gas range!

Re: The energy crisis
 

I asked my Norwegian and Swedish friends about heat pumps, and the general answer was that they did their job, but if you get one with a squeaky fan in the neighbourhood, you'll be wearing earplugs until it is sorted. Most civil buildings run on very large heat pumps installations that can take up "several parking spaces" or are installed on rooftops.

Water heating for sinks all tend to be on-demand electric boilers right next to the sink. All washing machines are cold fill and tend to be used at night, and all showers are electric.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I can assure you, Mr.K, that old boilers do break down and are inefficient, unless you're talking about her indoors. lol

Re: The energy crisis
 

Hah, we currently have a power cut in our area. It is a nice taster of what might happen this winter… My laptop is happy with an estimated 6 hours of battery life left but my work mobile battery is down to 26% and I need it for tethering so I still have internet access.

Time to search the house for any power banks the kids have left with any charge in I think..

Re: The energy crisis
 

My work lappy would work in power cut, mobile for tethering (can use personal as well - unlimited data) but external monitors, meeces, printers etc don't and when it gets dark...

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Bulb/Octopus delay. Updated 14 November 2022

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...utm_content=19

Re: The energy crisis
 

Octopus give away a fluffy Octopus toy to all their customers that's the main thing. Did Bulb ever give you a bulb?

Re: The energy crisis
 

I never got one. I feel cheated. I want mine

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They give me the electricity to light one. ;)

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Check your bill - they probably charged you for it… ;)

Re: The energy crisis
 

They credited me with £66 last month, which is enough to run this bulb for about 7 years.
I got another £66 this month as well, so another 7 years. (Its very unlikely to be in service for 14 years, so it'll basically be running free for its lifetime).

Oh, and before the smarty pants come along to tell me thats money from the government, I dont care, as it doesnt matter.
'Bulb' credited to my account, and whatever the ultimate source, as far as I'm concerned, that bulb is being powered free of charge [to me]. :D

Re: The energy crisis
 

:tu:

Re: The energy crisis
 

We have been doing all electrical based work, dishwashing, washing machine etc during the peak hours in anticipation of the savings day:

Truss and Kamikazi were geniuses. The octopuses not so much. Pushing people to use electricity during peak hours......

I did not get a fluffy Octopus!

Re: The energy crisis
 

If enough people people move their demand outside of peak hours, the situation giving rise to an Octopus "Saving Session" may never arise. Other schemes don't have that sort of condition for the rebate.
Link

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's not from the government, it's from your pay packet.

Re: The energy crisis
 

or yours. ;)

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Jeremy Hunt: from April energy price guarantee will be continued for 12 months but at a higher level of £3,000 a year for average household

Re: The energy crisis
 

Outstanding - a 20% increase…

So, for us, that means a forecast rise to £3,700 annual energy bill (up from last year’s £1,400).

Re: The energy crisis
 

I was expecting worse.

At least by the time April comes along, the weather will be getting warmer.
There is always the [small] hope that the actual costs will start to fall by the end of next year.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Option 3, Bob…

Re: The energy crisis