Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

You meant like the referendum and GE that have already taken place?


Anything that takes place now, other than immediate Brexit, is tainted by the bullying and blocking tactics of Remainers. They are saying "don't bother voting against us, we're not going to allow it". Democracy well and truly flushed down the toilet, along with freedom of speech and opinion, that went a long time ago.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Yes, it's such a bummer that you can't be openly hostile to those who are different to you - bring back the good old days when women, minorities, and gays knew their place, and didn't dare speak up for fear of a good thrashing...

Fortunately for us, your definition of "democracy" does not match that of our current Parliamentary Democracy.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I mean exactly that the 2016 referendum and 2017 GE will not be enough. Yes. Exactly that.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

But if that wasn't enough, then it's because of the "bullying and blocking" tactics", and the "don't bother voting against us, we're not going to allow it" attitude. That makes any result that might be on the Remain side, tainted because of the undue pressure..

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Tainted or not it'd be a result.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Democracy means the UK decides things, NOT the EU(ie Germany and France).

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

A tainted vote is by definition, not a valid one.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

That's not the definition of tainted.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I'll remember that when you next loudly proclaim about the lies told in the referendum run up :p: ;)

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

It's hardly a result... Years later we are barely further forward. Remain delivers a decisive result because it's not possible to drown the legislative timetable in the same manner to stop the status quo. :)

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Correct, it wasn't a result.

Wasn't acknowledged by Parliament or the media afterwards, and certainly wasn't mentioned at all by any politicians in the 2017 GE :D

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

It’s not yet an outcome, is my point. Yes, I know that’s Parliament’s fault.

---------- Post added at 16:56 ---------- Previous post was at 16:12 ----------

Ah here’s comes the flexible extension. Long enough for MPs to have another stab at the WA with no sense of urgency, for it to fail, but not long enough for the subsequent General Election that is really required.

I bet we are still in on my birthday, which is after 31st January.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Pretty sure the U.K. Parliament and Supreme Court have been making the recent decisions...

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

That's why we need a GE to weed out those loose cannons. It would be a very interesting GE that's for sure.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Anyone remember the good old days of the Brexit countdown. I miss those simple, straightforward, days.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Which one?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

:D:D:D

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

The whole argument about “workers rights” etc, is a political red herring.

Firstly, the whole point of Brexit was to be self governing. so if we are not going to pass a Brexit deal because certain things aren’t pinned to EU rules, is a mockery of the referendum.

Secondly, when we are self governing, if a Tory Government did produce legislation that did reduce workers rights, then a future opposition could reverse that legislation and improve workers rights, that’s the whole point of being self governing. Do Labour want the EU to do their bidding for Them?

Once we’re outside the EU, British politicians will be responsible to the British people and not be able to hide behind the EU, and that can only be a good thing.

---------- Post added at 19:52 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

You and I are in complete agreement at this singular moment, except for the referendum bit.

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------

I nearly fell off my chair...

They haven’t been making any decisions, that’s why we’re still here. They have deferred and deferred and deferred.

The only body making decisions has been the EU deciding how many extensions to give us and for how long.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Oh, the votes they had didn’t count, then?

If BJ and colleagues had voted for May’s deal, Brexit would have happened by now...

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

What has Parliament done, what decisions has it made, to progress Brexit?

Apart from yesterday when they agreed to a 2nd reading, but then immediately voted against the timetable,

Parliament has made no decisions, Parliament has obfuscated, delayed, denied, stalled ( get a thesaurus and pick any word you want). They have done nothing in two in a half years to get to a position where we might actually leave and still don’t look like they’re anywhere near.

So no, Parliament have not been making any decisions.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

They voted on the Withdrawal Act...

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

It’s all a blur now, do you mean the WAB yesterday?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

The first one, that enshrined exit day in law. I do agree, it's all getting rather complicated. ;)

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Well yes, and there’s the paradox, they voted for it then have done everything in their power since to prevent it.

So I wouldn’t put that down as great decision making it. They made a decision and have since done all they can to prevent the outcome of that decision.......yay.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Theoretically, they voted for it but wanted longer to discuss it. The two votes are not mutually exclusive and in a vacuum the timetable was an absurd provocation that wouldn't have been tried. It's a massive bill with all sorts of ramifications including for Northern Ireland which is why the DUP - whose votes were the difference in the end - voted against both.

Obviously the additional context is the fear stuff could be tacked on but even that isn't bad in itself. There is a theoretical majority for the deal. Unless some of those were being disingenuous in their original backing then some sort of deal is within reach. One key element that the Government should live with is the handing of the transition period to Parliament for example.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

And by making it advisory removed the courts power to quash what they described as dishonest and illegal, good work Dave

The labour manifesto that the country rejected, ludicrous to suggest they should be bound by a manifesto the country didn't want

I don't believe it is going to be part of the law, is going to be something we aspire to adhere to iirc, it could have been law but was removed from that section for some reason, not sure why the government would do that, it's not like they have people that form part of it who have described British workers as "among the most lazy and feckless in the world", oh wait they do and they even went as far as to write that in a book

More time was spent discussing the 19 animals used in the circus than on this, speaks volumes imo...

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Parliament may appear to have voted for Brexit, but next they intend to pass an amendment to keep us in the customs union, thus taking away the benefits of Brexit. People should be clear on that. They are playing with us!

With luck, the EU will not be able to secure unanimity on an extension and we will crash out. That will serve them right. However, the most helpful the EU could be is to grant an extension only on the basis that we hold a General Election to sort Parliament out. At least that will give us a way out of this impasse.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50162009

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

pointless trying to get the bill though, as it will be wrecked by the remainer parliament. A GE is the only forward.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

The people need the opportunity to sack the filth that has blighted democracy since the referendum.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

No we need to leave on the 31st Oct.

Then have a GE.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Sky news’s Beth Rigby says Boris Johnson will table a motion for a general election on Monday.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sion-live-news

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Will jeremy the chicken go for it or just let this stupidity go on.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

This is an absolutely tedious con.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

exactly and a GE wont solve the Brexit mess one bit with another hung parliament what if we elect a majority remain parliament again the leavers on here all ready said they wont except that and the mess continues for maybe years more

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Found this for labour supporters.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwafG-QvEFc

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

It’s looking less and less likely that Boris Johnson will get his election proposal agreed by parliament ...

Michael Savage views.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Tedious is the word. The solution is obvious but the Tories are in denial.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Is it just me, or doesn’t BJ realise saying "back an election or I won’t continue my record-breaking run of failures" isn’t really an effective threat?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

This should concern us all given the murder of Jo Cox in 2016.

https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/...-and-the-union

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I've come really close to committing an act of violence against the tv when they discuss brexit related issues.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Fundamentally an act of self harm. The Brexit imagery is strong in that one.

---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 21:10 ----------

I like the fact 3% want the public to get hurt in protests, regardless of Brexit. :confused:

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Really sad reading.

Seems we've lost the art of debate and argument so need to resort to more "graphic" means of protest. I guess TV companies don't want people who protest with words, doesn't sell as well.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Chancellor Sajid Javid has "paused" production of the new Brexit 50p coins due to the likelihood that the UK will not leave the European Union next Thursday.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-coins-missed/

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50175914

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

EU falling into a trap here. Anything other than adhering to the request, in law, leaves them open to accusations of meddling in UK politics.

It doesn’t matter if/when the Withdrawal Agreement Bill is passed. If it passed before November 6th then it gives the UK Government two months to get the necessary legislation in place. The “minor technical extension” that gets mooted every once in a while.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

It is, in fact, a request by the UK. The EU gets to make the decision.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

hmm, playing the game where they wait to see if the deal is accepted (haha) and what happens regarding a GE . .

. . could be anything then, 2 weeks, 6 months, even 10 years (at the current rate) :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Yes, they indeed do. And will get accused of meddling by doing anything other than adhering to the request as written. As I clearly stated.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Some would say they've been meddling for years ;) :D

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

You did indeed. However, lest anyone came away with the impression that the EU was being awkward in this case, I was simply pointing out for them that it was the EU's prerogative, not ours. They were only obliged to give us two years, and we have already exceeded that by six months.

I blame the EU for many things, but I am happy to stand up for them when they are in the right, as they are in this case. They do actually want this deal to go through. Not for the first time, the block is the remainers in Parliament who just will not budge and are keeping this country in limbo.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Indeed, but what can be more Brexit than the EU succumbing to the demands of our sovereign Parliament. ;)

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:09 ----------

It's hardly right to create an unwanted, arbitrary deadline that nobody will take seriously in any case. Parliament, and the country, needs a general election. A false deadline and no agreement only sees a further extension, a later election and a later conclusion to the whole debacle.

The EU get accused of forcing countries into second referendums until they get the result they want. In this case they can leave us to this farce all by themselves.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Next Friday works for me.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Just saw BJ on Sky News at 12:27 saying "it’s a great deal that’s been approved by Parliament".

He’s lying.

It’s only progressed to the 2nd stage (a reading of the bill) - there’s still multiple stages to go through before it’s passed (it’s like saying England have won the Rugby World Cup because they got through the qualifiers - still the quarter-finals, semi-finals, and final to go before they’ve won).

Either it's been approved by Parliament, and then they can't delay it, or it hasn't been approved by Parliament - it can't be both (hint: it hasn't been approved by Parliament).

Stages of a bill in Parliament


---------- Post added at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

So did the 29th March and the 31st October... ;)

But, as the linked article stated

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Tory spin, the block is the prospect of No Deal. Take that off the table and, as Corbyn says, the Deal can progress through Parliament. If the Deal is as wonderful as you think there is no problem is there?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Ratify the deal, pass the bill and no deal is no longer a problem.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Untrue.

The block, now, is the continual drip, drip of obstructions to the meaningful vote, and now to passage of the WAB.

“Take no deal off the table” is a strategy to ensure the WAB never passes through the Commons (certainly not in a form compatible with the agreement negotiated with the EU), resulting in serial applications for deadline extensions with the eventual aim of creating an irresistible, major shift in public opinion towards a second referendum or outright revocation.

The continuing remain strategy ever since 2016 has been to make Brexit look too arduous to see through, and then to reverse the referendum result. “Take no deal off the table” is a tactic in pursuit of that overall strategy. Nothing more.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Either deliberately or blindly, you and those with similar arguments like to forget that 'no deal' is a negotiating strategy.

If Parliament is given the opportunity of scrutinising the Bill over a longer period on condition that we get an election, there is no excuse not to go for that, is there?

I do not have a problem at all with Boris's deal and I certainly don't have an issue with 'no deal' which remainers have tried their best to make look like some kind of monster.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

fHe didn't lie, I watched the same interview, he said quite distinctly that it had been passed for a second reading.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Your negotiating strategy is like the one in Blazing Saddles where the Sheriff of Rock Ridge rides into town and negotiates with the people of the town not to shoot him.

Boris may be a comedian but he’s no Mel Brooks. And he wouldn’t get the reprieve the Sheriff did in the movie.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

They don't want an election as they have the government exactly where they want them. Powerless. Theoretically this could drag on until 2022.

The only risk to Labour and the others, is that if they're seen to be denying an election just to hold parliament in Limbo. When we finally get an election whenever that is, they could be held to account very severely.

Boris just needs to keep coming out as the man of the people trying to close this out against a parliament that are just there to frustrate.

Corbyn's/Labour's position will become indefensible eventually.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Rumours that the ‘Rebel alliance’ will take control of the order paper to bring the WAB back against the government wishes. To either help Brexit happen for those who just wanted a deal, Remainers want to pass it with a referendum attached and others want to pass it with a commons market 2.0 amendment: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/sta...43629214932998

Labour will be happy too as it screws with Boris Johnson’s plan to use it as a tool in a general election.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1...413565441?s=21

He says "what we have here is a great deal, a deal that has been approved by Parliament" (first 6 seconds).

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Oh dear. He's forgotten about their Lordships as well.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Your position is expected as you are happy with any cost to the country to achieve the result you crave for. For the majority of the country, their view is different, they do not wish to be poorer and so No Deal needs to go.

Caroline Lucas seem to have found the reason for this position in Parliament:

https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/st...15530401513474

As Hugh has repeated pointed out, this PM's word cannot be trusted and so the only route is to amend the legislation to force his hand.

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

If this the Boris you imagine?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMAGV0XW0AUwCym.jpg

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Probably this one. :D

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/s...73908020948993

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Watch the whole interview, don’t be taken in by selective clips. I thought one as Wise as you would not be hoodwinked.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Did he, or did he not say what I quoted and what was shown by Sky TV News?

It has not been edited/cut/clipped to distort what he said, it’s what he said...

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

In what way does "Deal" actually change what, in your opinion, would make us poorer? In theory, all it actually does it delay things by just over a year. A Labour government it guaranteed to do that (again), yet is anybody suggesting it should be blocked?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Even if he said something else later he did state that as well. Remember politicians use soundbites so that these select clips are shown via social media and news reports.

Go to the Conservative party twitter feed to see them circulating memes and clips of the bill 'passing' Parliament.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

More dishonestly from Johnson:

Fears rise over post-Brexit workers’ rights and regulations

Other non-paywall link: https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...-rights-leaked

Earlier:



This will be a main theme in the next GE: "Can you trust the dishonest Conservatives?"

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Maybe you're so fixated with the Anti-Boris theme, that you're not considering the possibility that a change to the workers protection/regulations/rights or whatever will be a benefit?

Maybe we're looking at better protection and rights for the poor suckers stuck in zero hour contracts for example

Look what I've just seen . .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50189819

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

So, clearly, you do not want the UK to have better workers' rights than the EU. Or have you misinterpreted what the PM said?

If it's trust that you are worried about, I really wouldn't put mine in the hands of Marxist terrorist sympathisers Corbyn and McDonnell

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

LibDems for you then OB? ;)

They've got an excellent solution for Brexit, then we can all concentrate on the real issues facing us instead of wasting our lives on this irrelevance.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Considering three serving members of the cabinet literally wrote the book on creating "efficiency" in the UK workforce ok curious where the commitment to extend workers rights comes from.

There’s nothing in any of the proposed legislation. Boris saying it doesn’t make it so.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Who?

Conservatives. Dominic Raab wrote a paper on it. A good read or anyone wanting to see what these people would do if they could get away with it. Less annual leave, more hours, etc.

As capitalism forces more people into the “gig economy” these rights are more vital then ever.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

This will be a major theme in the GE. Do we want the free market vision that those controlling Johnson envisage? Most do not. The Deal as presented allows the door to this world to be well and truly open.

Workers rights are a direct obstacle to the low tax, low regulation future he wants. This is the reality of free market capitalism. Those who say that we can have more rights as workers in such a "gig" economy are selling snake oil.

---------- Post added at 18:35 ---------- Previous post was at 18:30 ----------

That's an easy one to answer. The answer is the Conservative Party. As I posted earlier, they have already made significant inroads but this is only just the beginning if the Tory right get their way.

I would also welcome a clarification of "artificial "rights""?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

How is it exactly nonsense? Whatever rights we have under EU law could be eroded away when we leave. They might not, the rights might even get better, but they could get worse and calling that nonsense is uncalled for.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Everyone forgets the compelling left wing Labour agenda got over 40% last time out!

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

All completely irrelevant. The core issue is who decides for us? UK or France and Germany? Labour likes the EU in that aspect, in that they and the unions can exert their will, without the inconvenience of democracy getting in the way. On the other, they dislike the EU because it puts restrictions on State Aid. That is why so many senior Labour figures are conflicted over the EU.

If the EU was ever to introduce something that was actually beneficial to businesses, they wouldn't want anybody else to introduce it. The aim is to put the same restrictions on EU businesses, that the French and Germans put on their own businesses. They don't want anybody else to have an economic advantage over them.

The real danger thing is that, as always with the EU, a simple statement becomes ever wide reaching. It becomes a backdoor method to impose all sorts of things that were never agreed to in the first place. Before long they are imposing the same levels of tax, and even healthcare systems, eg goodbye zero VAT on food, goodbye NHS.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Not irrelevant to the point I was responding to.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

An example of a nonsense employment law, is the required notice period and consultations for redundancy. When a business goes completely bust, there is no possibility of any notice, and the taxpayer is expected to pick up the bill for payments for that.
Link

The core principles(check your dictionary) shouldn't be, "what is nice".

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

You've missed the point to what I was replying to.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

An absolute irrelevance against the point you made!

I have to laugh at the English though, when you consider Old Boy incorrectly calling Jeremy Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser, surely the right of the Palestinian people or Irish people to govern themselves is the same?

If other people's blood is the price to pay in an armed cause so be it. Indeed, research shows that the English won't mind violence if it delivers Brexit. It's a queer paradox.

---------- Post added at 20:25 ---------- Previous post was at 20:20 ----------

That law isn't a nonsense. There's a difference between redundancy and your employer no longer existing.

If you can't understand that you aren't in a position to competently discuss this subject.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

"If the EU ever introduce anything beneficial to businesses".

Frictionless trade to 500 million potential customers? :confused:

Giving your staff 4 weeks annual leave and a maximum 48 hour week (why not employ more people if you need more yours) are presumably minor incidental benefits of the EU.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Seems a complete waste of time discussing it to me.

We're still in the EU, along with all the rights people mention, but there are already businesses that have, or are in the process of, changing workers contracts so premium time is reduced and bank holidays are compulsory working.

Pretty sure most workers involved aren't happy at those changes, can they complain to the EU? :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Frictionless trade existed before the EU, and exists outside of it. The thousands of EU rules mean it isn't as frictionless as they make out. The "friction" just occurs away from the borders.


In the real world of business, it's not easy to simply employ more people. If you want to make it easier, one thing you would have to do is allow Zero hour contracts.


The Working Time Directive is a classic example of the EU imposing something by the backdoor. The UK had an exemption from it, but is was imposed by the backdoor on Health & Safety grounds. If the EU was truly interested in H&S then it would have to impose restrictions on what people did outside those work hours. It's a more than a bit silly to have a maximum working week, when you can still take up another job or even a hobby that is quite physically and mentally demanding.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Frictionless trade did exist before the EU, and outside of it, however it is a time consuming process and like all capitalist trades involve give and take.

I'm appalled you wish to remove the hard earned protections of workers rights. However it's not unexpected. Nobody compels anyone to undertake work or hobbys.

If you have a business model that can't pay a fair wage, for contracted working hours, and guarantee annual leave you simply do not have a credible business model. You deserve to fail - not have the Government rewrite employment law for you.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

If we could exceed said benefits I’d be at the front of the queue. However they have no legal standing in the absence of a prevailing Act of Parliament.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Yes, disregard what the majority think and carry on!

What is the significance of 'Democrat' in 'Liberal Democrat?'. How dare they criticise Boris for going back on 'his promises'! How cynical can you get?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Steady on, Old Boy, you get to throw about weak arguments like “Marxist”, “terrorist sympathiser” etc against the shadow cabinet I ask you to confirm under which legislation the Conservative Party will confirm to adhere to all EU legislation and more importantly exceed them. I eagerly await your reply.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

It's late and there is a lot I need to comment on with the latest posts on this thread.

In the meantime, I would like to point out that neither Corbyn nor McDonnell would deny that they are Marxists. The evidence to support my comment on 'terrorist sympathisers' does not come out of the blue - where have you been?

So why are you even questioning this? You seem to be making an industry about diverting attention from what is actually, a given.

Is this your rationale? Just create an argument for the sake of it?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

If they truely wanted it enshrined why remove it from the legal agreement and move it to the political declaration which is only aspirational, we all know aspirations aren't worth the side of the bus they're written on

The book where they described us as among the worlds laziest idlers


What do any of these people know about "graft" as they put it, all I've ever seen Krazy Kwarteng do is lie and they want us to emulate the working practices of Asia, where suicide is often preferable than returning to work after lunch.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Britannia Unchained, a book written (published) in 2012, slated in parts for its poor research and factual errors.

I'd never heard of the book until now, but seemingly (7 years later) it's become something that is making guest appearances in the Brexit circus :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Lib Dems and SNP will back a election on the 9th December: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50194685

Although sounds like the Tories won't go for it.