Re: Brexit discussion
 

Absolutely.:tu:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I have a present for you....

There are only estimates for how the vote went on a constituency level. Chris Hanretty, Professor of Politics at Royal Holloway has been working on this for some time. The data is here - https://app.polimapper.co.uk/?dataSe...38ea0461832a#_ You can look up your constituency and see the estimated vote..

He talks about methods and error here - https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/fi...p-5490b6cab878

He asked nicely if his paper could be cited when using his data so here we go - “Areal interpolation and the UK’s referendum on EU membership”, Chris Hanretty, Journal Of Elections, Public Opinion And Parties, Online Early Access, http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/17457289.2017.1287081

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Those economic migrants are on French soil, it's France's problem, not ours. They have traveled through several European countries, all decent enough to live in and claim asylum.

I beg to differ on the anti-democratic part. They voted against the bill to oppose the process of leaving, yet more delay tactics to thwart the result, they are ignoring their key Manifesto policy of 'Accepting the referendum result', that they and their Momentum cohorts were only too happy to brag about before the snap election, I remember it well, waving it and bragging about it, "Read the manifesto, it's brill." and they cannot even stick to it, same old pathetic Labour.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

They are on French soil but they're heading to British soil and the reason they don't is because we get to have the border at Calais and not Dover.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That's apart from the thousands who do get through every year via places like Calais of course.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes, it's not air-tight. Still a lot better than having to deal with the problem in Dover though. We have a good arrangement here and one which is not popular with the French public. It seems that £44 million is a decent price to pay as well, clearly the government thinks so too. Remember that even with this additional payment this is a political cost to Macron, the best thing he can do for support back home is rip up the agreement and tell us to handle our own border. It would be stupid diplomatically of course. We've also committed to helping them with letting them use our helicopters in Africa.

It seems that even after Brexit there are some who just want nothing to do with Europe and to be as anagonstic as we can to the countries of Europe to the extent we'll rip up a beneficial arrangement just to stick it to the French. We're in trouble if even concessions made to us offend the public.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

They are heading to British Soil but got in to France, our border does not cover the whole of France, so they traveled through it, illegally, it is still France's problem, not ours, they only managed to get to Calais because France has weak borders with the rest of it's European countries, why should we have to pay for France's weak borders issue ?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Imo their constituents wishes trump everything, party loyalty, national vote or self interest

And when they remove controls in calais and usher them through they become our problem, people might call it blackmail but what's in the French national interest to keep these shanty towns going, the people there don't want to be in France they want to be in Britain so why don't they just let them through, be easier for everyone except us!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I was about to say the same thing. The Le Touquet agreement must be a massive pain for France, I do wonder what's in it for them. It must be tempting to say au revoir, don't slam the porte on the way out.

I was having a look at the cost of deportations. We reported to Eurostat an estimated cost of €407,000,000 to deport 46,610 illegal immigrants in 2014 which works out at as a cost of €8732 per person. Yikes! £44,000,000 extra looks like a bargain at this rate, though I don't know the total cost of running Le Touquet.

Data source - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...7h4/edit#gid=0

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well, if the illegal immigrants got on a ferry or Eurostar, or a plane, the operators would have to return them at their own expense. It’s up to them to check that those travelling have the appropriate documentation.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Mmmm, don't think a lot of them get a ticket/go via passport control...

France would be well within its rights to tell us to deal with it post Brexit. Hence us having to give them a massive cash sweetener. Working out a bit pricey this Brexit lark....

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well, that is the appropriate and legitimate means of travel. I don't think France is threatening to let these hordes of illegal immigrants run through the tunnels or force their way onto lorries! So their position should not change on that score.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Without a border in Calais they wouldn't need to force their way onto lorries so much. There would likely still be a French policing operation and checks from the transport companies but fewer than there currently is. The issue at Calais is because the border is there, that's where we check whose coming in. You move the border to Dover, you're moving a lot of the problems to Dover as well. It's also harder to kick someone out of the country than it is to stop them coming in.

£45 million is nothing in Government budgets. Manchester United are about to pay more than that so a football player can play for them for a few years instead of someone else.

I think it highlights how difficult a job Theresa May has with Brexit because there is a not insignificant contingent in his country who'll not countenance any compromise or concession to Europe no matter how beneficial it could be to us. At there mere suggestion it's beneficial to Europe as well they would rather we lose out in order spite them.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

They've been moaning since we joined the EEC and they'll be moaning about everything that's seen as a concession to Europe forever after. It's time for that contingent to raise their game and be grateful that we're leaving and can work together for mutual benefit in the future.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/...-french-proud/
She's a traitor ! Take her to the Tower now...

tbh she voted and campaigned for Remain first time round. I'm sure she'll ensure 'Brexit' is purely cosmetic to limit the damage.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

A leopard never changes its spots as they say Mr K...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm not sure the Brexiters would want to remove her, though!
If you look at her Brexit peers, could any of them hold the Government together and steer it towards Brexit. I think the Conservative Party made the best choice in an era when we're not blessed with many great ones in all parties.
I prefer fellow Remainer Ruth Davidson but she's sensibly decided to remain in Scottish politics for the time being.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Source

So he's quite happy to deny the French people a say on the "Ever closer integration" Very democratic I'm sure.:rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes well as we know with Brexit, some people only accept the sort of democracy which yields the required result.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well it is democratic. Le Pen was offering a referendum, he wasn't and he won. Now he won for different reasons but when you're voting people in you vote for them on a platform some of which may be unpopular.

France isn't run by a dictator. The French people are actually very politically engaged, more so than us, and knew what they were doing. Look at their Presidential debates, they sit down with each other for three hours, having long substantive debates.

Macron went to his country with an unapologetic position of being pro-EU. He didn't lie about that, he didn't even pretend to be conflicted about it, he spoke of it constantly. He said that this was his position and it came as part of the package of his governance even if that particular position had minority support.

I swear this forum uses 'Democracy' without any care for how democracies actually work. Anytime the notion of compromise, unpopular decisions or even an idea is floated that isn't liked out come the cries of 'democracy'. As if every democracy should decide every policy via what currently has 50% plus support. Very few nations manage their democracy this way. The only one that springs to mind is Switzerland.

You just disagree with his decision. That's fine. Dissent is also part of a democracy but seriously let-up on the idea that everything that a government does, including holding a referendum or not, is undemocratic.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Spot on.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Source

So the good news way more than compenastes for any Brexit hit. :)

Must have stuck in his craw to have to say that. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Think what the growth would have been without the impact of Brexit?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We can conjecture about that as much as we like. Fact is we still robust growth which the remainers said wouldn't happen and it could be argued that the dip in sterling as a result of the Brexit vote is a stimulus to the exporters that would not have otherwise happened.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Agreed - but we need also to bear in mind the hit those who require imports or imported material are undergoing.

We need to see the whole picture, not just the bit that reinforces our biases...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's a pity that phrase hasn't been used more freely over the last 12 months or so, it may have saved a few arguments on here :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Oh l don't know there are some pretty entrenched views on here.:)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No there's not. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/01/10.jpg

Boris and David Davis...

They're behind you!!!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Current affairs forum protocol insists I must point out that those two are in fact the anti-democratic Clegg and Blair. Sometimes we see what we want to see. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8174306.html

Did anyone who voted to leave saw this possibility and I wonder how many might be affected?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Another Brexit scare story me thinks, key word ‘could’, not ‘would’. There are lots of things that got put forward that ‘could’ happen right after the Brexit vote, they didn’t. Enough said. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well everything about Brexit on both sides has been 'could' not 'would' apart from the claim about the £350 million being saved to give to the NHS.

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/01/13.jpg

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Oh FFS, the red bus argument. Not going there, done to bloody death!

Not even remotely sure where the word 'would' was used, pretty sure it said 'Let's give'. But as I said, been here many many times before, tired argument that Remainers clutch at.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

And Brexiteers are very fond of using the samo,samo arguments.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Rubbish. We’re constantly having to justify the same things brought up, time and time again by Remainers, you demonstrated this with the red bus.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Which is our right..If we lose we get to complain over and over and over in perpetuity and point out what the winners did wrong and what lies they told so they could win..There is no law that says we can't keep bringing the issue up. Of course there has to be justification for the bus lie.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The bus had two statements on it. Only the naive connected them directly.

Of course that was the intention IMHO but as written they were not connected.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That's no excuse and not a good reason.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So Brexit voters were naive ? ;)

All going pear shaped as the reality of the situation dawns. Even Farage has started to panic about his 'legacy'.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/90...el-Farage-Ukip
Never mind Nige, Trump will welcome you.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The Remain campaign also told lies as well in order for them to win too, a point you keep conveniently forgetting to mention or choosing not to.

The bus wasn't a lie. It was a suggestion, 'Let's give' is a suggestion

'Let's go to the park', is also a suggestion.

'We're going to the park' is a statement, you used to be a substitute teacher, surely you know the distinction between a suggestion and a written statement....

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Nigel does love his publicity Mr K as he still needs to massage his big ego remember.;)

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

Both lied IMO and both are still doing the same now..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Where is it going pear shaped.. what reality hitting home ?

Bollocks. Why?

Because....

Pound back up to level is was at time of referendum...

....All the lies you told about there is going to be a market crash and pensions are going to suffer and there will be a recession in 2017. All never happened, so no it has not gone pear shaped.

Unemployment at it lowest level in decades...

So where exactly is it going pear shaped ?

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------

Den, you keep pointing the opposite out on my posts when there is no need. I said 'also' in the sentence, please stop trying to correct the things I say because I have said them originally.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Ask Nigel, he and the Brexiteer ultras have realised the Brexit they are going to get is going to be incredibly 'soft', and they aren't happy (for a change !)
(and to remind you Brexit hasn't happened yet, the consequences will be felt by all of us in the decades to come).

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No they will not, we managed before we joined the corrupt union in the 70's and we will do so again.

No such thing as a soft or hard brexit, terms made up by Remainers.

Leave means leave.

I have no desire to ask Nigel anything, I don't care what he thinks.

We are leaving and that means the EU, Single Market and Customs Union. Theresa May said the same today at PMQ.

Get it in to your head, we are leaving the EU, as democratically elected to do so!!!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

'Let's fund the NHS' was a WRITTEN statement on a bus..and no one read it as a suggestion but as a promise.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No it was not.

'Let's give' is not a statement, it is a suggestion and it was definitely not a promise either.

'We promise to give to the NHS' is a promise and a statement. Those words were not used, so you are fundamentally incorrect.

Either way, all the people I know who voted for Brexit made their choice way before any red bus campaigining began because they had enough of the corrupt EU for many many years before hand.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Cameron caught on camera admitting: Brexit ISN'T 'disaster' is 'not as bad as we thought'

Let's spend £9m of public funds on a leaflet full of bull.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

just to say we not left yet we wont know to we have actually left if it a disaster or not

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The British people have decided against the disaster of staying in.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

and wait to the disaster hits when we leave the leavers be first to moan

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think there's a remoaning monopoly on moaning ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It only became a suggestion or aspiration once they were asked to deliver upon it and the people that funded and ran the campaign said it was vital and we wouldn't be leaving without the bus, apparently 33% of the public thought it true and 10% still think it's true, I think I'll take that above the opinion of Mick and people he knows.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...brits-11027263

I find the truly bizarre thing is that people believed charlatans who have said numerous times they wanted to do away with the NHS altogether, the Farages and Banks of this world who all of a sudden wanted to bless the NHS will billions post brexit


You have missed the last part of his statement of your quote for some reason, you know the bit where he says it's still a big mistake

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Nothing like politicians talking with forked tongue and then backtracking from their promises when it suits them..

---------- Post added at 05:12 ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 ----------

Don't forget some of our own corrupt politicians in Westminster and beyond as some of them have been feathering their golden nests for a good many years and will still do even when we have left the EU but of course its one of our own so it must be alright..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You're another one, who conveniently forgets the lies told from the Remain camp, how many people were 'took in' from lie after lie from them?

Does the crappy Mirror give a balanced view of the % of people took in by Remain camp lies...?

Then came the pathetic black mailing attempt from President Obama with the back of queue bullshit.

But oh dear, you are posting a poll from an Anti-Brexit paper. 1) Most polls are and have been wrong so I find them unreliable. 2) Mirror is Anti-Brexit, so I wouldn't trust them whatsoever. 3) Only one poll mattered, far bigger sample size of around 33 Million and it's being enacted on.

I couldn't give a toss what opinion you take over mine. I know why I voted and that's all I care about and it was not the damn 'suggestion' on the red bus, that persuaded me! :mad:

Farage and Banks were not in the official leave campaign, that launched the red bus and even if they had 'suggested money to the NHS', they were not in government to enact on it and as I have said repeatedly, no promise was made, read the bloody words.

Stop clutching at straws and looking for silly reasons as to why people voted the way the did to try and de-legitimise the result, it is not going to change the result.

Leaving this clip here, as I see we are here again, must be Groundhog Day!. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Really, you wait to hear the moaning if we leave in name only with the softest of soft brexit, then certain people will be expecting everyone to rally round to the will of the people, trouble is when over half the population have been told to shut up and that their opinion doesn't count they may well be inclined to remain tight lipped.

Said it before, the good thing about forums is your posting history is there for all to see and I was scathing to both sides in the run up to the referendum and on the night itself pre result about the amount of lies, lack of facts, scaremongering and shabby presentation, still don't get that get in the way of your angry little accusations.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=1458

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=1454

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=1258

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=1051

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=884

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=765

I could go on but I know you're not a fan of clicking links from sources you don't like. Funnily enough I have my own take on polls and pollsters to

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...7&postcount=42

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I made my mind up based on my feelings about the EU not the bull excreta during the run up to the vote.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Always got to ask yourself, what's the alternative ? Do you think our Government could run a piss up in a brewery ? Look at the shambles they are in before Brexit has even happened ? The EU don't run our NHS for example, look at the state it's in.

The EU is far from perfect but does do some postive things e.g.
stopping drug firms ripping us off, getting rid of credit charges (even though Theresa tried to claim the credit for that !), cheap flights, freedom to work in the EU, consumer and worker protection

Be prepared to lose these, and the interests of the rich and businesses to come first. Still at least we'll have our country back (in a sort of Charles Dickens type way :rolleyes: ).

Re: Brexit discussion
 

And all that had to do with what exactly ?

Because it had nothing to do with what you posted earlier and what I subsequently replied to.

---------- Post added at 12:14 ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 ----------

None of those stop the EU from being Corrupt. I still want to leave the EU.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

How exactly is the EU as an institution corrupt? I hear this mentioned a number of times. There is certainly evidence of corruption at a state level but I would be interested in hearing about corruption at the EU (Parliament, Council, Commission, etc.) level

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

And you think our Govt. isn't corrupt Mick? A cabinet of millionaires, many with links and shares in private companies ? Are they going to make Brexit work for us, or themselves ?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Not that I am trying to defend Nigel, he can do that himself but he’s categorically denied what’s in that link. Wasn’t there issues with funds from the Remain camp too ?

The EU is corrupt in many ways. They lie, extort and just basically rip countries off and we are the ones getting ripped off. We are handicapped when taking trade deals. They did not listen when Cameron asked them to reform. Told countries they had to take extra migrants or else, when we are taking 300K per year already. Bit by bit, they want more control of our laws. They told us they are not trying to become a United States of Europe, but they have ambitions to be so and have a EU Army. No thank you.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

they only care about themselves

Re: Brexit discussion
 

And after what you claim, I would still choose them over a Corbyn/Momentum/Racist to Jews led government.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Sorry but that really is tosh. The statement (as opposed to a government pledge) was made by a campaign group who clearly couldn't promise any such thing because they had no power to do so. Are you seriousl telling us you really thought it was official government policy?

The fact is that it was an aspiration concerning the amount we send to the EU and what we'd be able to use it for - the NHS. Only time will tell whether the amount quoted will be freed up and what it'll be used for.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So does that mean that any political party/grouping (if they are not currently in office) can be treated as a campaign group, as they are not in government (therefore cannot set "official government policy"), and any and all of their Manifestos can be dismissed, if they are later elected, as "aspirational"?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The 'Leave' campaign was not a political party. Both Labour and the Conservatives had MPs contributing to the campaign.

The use of the wod 'Let's' also indicates that it was a suggestion. It certainly was not meant as a pledge.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Isn't it funny the deadly silence when I call out the Antisemitism going on in the Labour party / Momentum. I mean look what Labour was called out for doing earlier in the week, selling tickets to a Corbyn rally and depending on your ethnicity, you got a discount on the ticket price, absolutely disgusting and racist practices and dead right there is now an equality probe investigating them.

---------- Post added at 14:40 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------

Simple answer, no they cannot. Next question ?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It means what I said - that a campaign group can't make promises which only a government can. Simple. You can call it what you like but it wasn't a promise. We've been over and over this time and time again and there really is no point carrying on. The figure quoted is clearly debatable but whatever the number, the sentiment was and is the same - the money we send to the EU can be spent on the NHS instead. Clearly the government of the day would need to decide that and any successor government could choose to reverse it if they so wished.

The fact that politicians of all colours routinely lie or renege on their pre-election promises is neither here nor there but it surprises me that so many supposedly intelligent people who're highly cynical when it comes to politics and soundbites seem to be claiming they were taken in by that one statement for some reason and it altered everything. I wonder why... :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I quoted the title verbatim and supplied the source link. You don't usually ask to be spoonfed TD ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But members of the Leave campaign work for the government as well and voted against an amendment to fulfill this ambition, suggestion, idea, whatever it's called. That included Michael Gove and Boris Johnson - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7570591.html

---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:13 ----------

Still struggling on corrupt practices by the EU by the way. Are there any examples of corrupt practices performed by the EU out there? Certainly there doesn't seem to be any systemic bribery culture as far as I can find and I am sure people have looked for it.

I did find what initiatives the EU have put in place to fight corruption which explains why EU tenders I have helped complete are a right pain - https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/wh.../corruption_en

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Which still isn't relevant to the campaign, you do know what a campaign is don't you?

The official leave campaign was not a Manifesto of government policy.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:39 ----------

Are you being deliberately obtuse ?

I gave you perfect examples of corruption in the EU and I am sick of telling you I do not want to be part of a United States of Europe which is exactly what the EU wants to become, eventually.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Hugh's point is that the Government doesn't campaign for reelection. A political party who are a independent organisation from that government does if you want to get into very technical reasons.

I think a lot of this is very disingenuous to be honest. As far as I am concerned the Leave campaign lied. Yes you can do the cynical political defence of parsing the words very carefully and going into the legal status of the campaign but the Remain campaign wasn't the Government either - at least not in the campaigning period when Cameron couldn't act as 'the government' - and that defence curiously doesn't seem to apply to them.

The Leave campaign was clearly being dishonest. The Remain campaign did the same thing, the 'cost' per each family, was clearly a lie. Now if you use the right formulas and read the small print then 'technically' it wasn't a lie but it clearly was! We all know they were being dishonest and although I supported them I don't feel the need to cortort myself to defend them. I didn't run that campaign.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The assertion

Is false, I've not only not forgotten I've posted on here moaning about it frequently. The thing with politics is that it's reciprocal, in time an election will be won using these nasty dirty little ways you don't support and you'll be the first to bleat about it, we'll see what your reaction is then when someone replies oh well will of the people

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That still has nothing whatsoever to do with what YOU posted this morning and what I replied to, you were bleating on about a crappy article in the mirror about % of what people believed about the red bus and I pointed out the bullshit within it and lack of balance, where are the % of the people took in regarding the lies from the Remain side?

You still haven't answered that, conveniently.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I also said the people that run and funded the leave campaign were of the opinion the bus lie was vital to winning, something you conveniently chose to ignore or are those yet more people whose opinion you couldn't give a crap about

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...-public/08/02/

Oh and what I posted this morning had plenty to do with what YOU posted earlier, the very first paragraph of your post being the clue

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No it did not. Rubbish.

Still no answer on the crappy mirror article, thanks for highlighting you don’t do balanced arguments, just like the Mirror you linked to.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Because it suits their purpose...nothing more.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Good on Damian Collins for tackling this situation.

https://www.ft.com/content/7ee61df6-...0-9c0ad2d7c5b5

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Are we seriously back to the red bus seriously it was not a promise it's clearly not worded as a promise nor do they claim it to be backed by experts it clearly states "lets give it" a suggestion not a promise. The campaigns of both sides were so incredibly pathetic i don't know anyone that voted leave that did so due to the campaign but i do know people who voted remain because of the immediate economic collapse that would follow a leave vote told to us daily by politicians and experts. I know young people who voted remain because they thought a leave vote would mean no more trips to ibiza and mobile phone charges would skyrocket and i know a few pensioners who voted remain because our prime minister at the time invoked the prospect of world war 3.

It simply beggers belief that the same group on here constantly sieze on the red bus rubbish and so conveniently forget all the lies and outright scare tactics employed daily by the remain campaign. The same group that whenever there is a bit of bad news it's all down to brexit but when there's anything positive it's despite brexit how lovely it is to have your cake and eat it. Things are not as bad as they are often represented and significant progress is being made outside of the main EU negotiation fiasco that will have a greater impact economically so instead of wallowing in gloom it might be best to stay quiet that way in a little over a year you won't look quite so stupid to have believed everything you've been spoon fed from agenda ridden press of both persuasions.

Things are not quite as they appear and time will show how manipulative some are being with the public, oh and those deluding themselves that brexit is going to be so soft as to be meaningless might want to stop hanging onto that hope your going to be very very disappointed.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Do you have Saturday's lottery numbers as well? :D

https://www.ft.com/content/e577b43e-...0-9c0ad2d7c5b5

Re: Brexit discussion
 

As i said time will tell and i gaurantee you won't be quite as happy as you are now when the final situation is resolved. I see you yet again failed to acknowledge the lies your preferred side repeatedly told and all those dire predictions of immediate consequences that failed to materialise i have no doubt you now adopt the standard remain position that they will come to be in time, how much time is that again 1andrew1??.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Rizzy old chap, Brexit hasn't happened yet.We might not feel the effects atm, but in the decades to come we and our kids will. (And yes politicians from all sides lie, but we know that. Sometimes we've got to rely on our own common sense - seems like we failed).

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We've not left yet last time I checked but already hard-working families are suffering from inflation and wage squeezes.
Ask me again when we have left the single market but the UK is underperforming its peers right now when it should be outperforming them. As a proud economically-literate Brit, it's a disappointing situation to contend with.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I did acknowledge this a few posts back and even a few times during the campaign I believe I said 'yeah, that's a bit silly' although admittedly it's harder to acknowledge your own faults than it is to find them in others.

I think it's clear the expected impact of Brexit I believe would happen has not happened. We've not even had a mild recession. At the same time though the economy isn't exactly doing great either, it's clearly slowed and even more so compared to Europe and America. We've slipped pretty far down.

And Leavers are also not seeing the optimistic projections working out either. The EU hasn't exactly folded to our whims. The EU is not begging to give us a trade deal at the demands of German car manufactures. Instead we've had a rather pragmatic and to some sobering negotiation so far. It's not been great, it's not been a disaster.

.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Exactly.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

And you'd know all about balanced arguments wouldn't you, the poster we typically expect to expose people will be coming after you soon and I thought I did give my opinion on polls in general, was that yet another opinion you ignore or 'don't give a toss about'

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There are aspects of the negotiations that are not being publicly discussed and the initial stage was always going to be difficult but things are not as one sided as they are being portrayed currently and discussions will move onto areas where the UK holds the upper hand. There will be a reciprocal trade deal that will give neither side everything it wants but will give each side enough to live with. MrK we were told almost gauranteed by numerous politicians and experts that there would be an immediate economic hit of large scale it never happened and saying "in the coming decades" well in or out of the EU economic downturns will happen just as they did while we were members of the EU so that's a little silly isn't it.

As I've said time will tell the reality but on balance it will be leavers rather then remainers that will be more satisfied. This is not even touching on the growing problems within the EU lets please not pretend that just over the channel is a utopia with no issue's and as usual the EU is moving at a snails pace trying to catch up on how to deal with those issue's.

The one thing that remain supporters have to stop doing is pretending that the leave campaign which was shockingly bad and just as full of lies and exaggerations as the remain campaign somehow changed the opinions of voters whilst the remain campaign didn't. You can't have it both ways both campaigns were pathetic and both may have had an impact on how some chose to vote but the majority knew how they were going to vote before the campaigns and were not altered by the fiasco that followed.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

What the hell are you blabbing on about, the poster who does what to expose who, will be after me...?

What does that even mean ?

When did you comment on the mirror article you linked to this morning, I am not talking about what you posted historically ?

Still no answer on the % of people 'taken in' by Remain lies, that the mirror conveniently forgot to report on, but then again, it's a paper that supports a Racist/Anti-Semitic political party AKA Labour. Enough said.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

As long as you believe it RK, that's the main thing ;)
Has it made our country a more united happy place? Are we still 'all in it together'? I'd suggest those heading our negotiations have only their own interests and ambitions at heart.

---------- Post added at 22:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------

Chillax Michael, watch the BP ! You can always start a new thread if this one has become 'too long'....

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think your the last one to insinuate delusions given nothing you've predicted has come to pass and yet you continually repeat it ad infinitum and everytime it fails to materialise you move the clock back and just rinse and repeat.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Brexit hasn't happened yet. Yes, rinse and repeat as you don't appear to know !

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Wow, gee, thanks for your consent....Got any suggestions for new thread titles you'd like to give as well ? :rolleyes:

(Rhetorical question by the way)

I tell you what. I can give you a nice forum break if you cannot learn to mind your own business regarding team actions or decisions I make. There is a topic here, I suggest you stick to it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I was trying to avoid the term usual suspect :D

I think I gave my opinion on the lies remain told, it irked me so much at one point I would've voted leave there and then, as for a figure on numbers taken in by remain lies, it was probably a lot, not sure why that matters though, it doesn't make what leave did right nor excuse them from what they did and if remains lies had won the day don't think I wouldn't be on here banging on about it just as much, probably more so in fact as deep down I'd feel like I'd have been taken in by them by association

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7905786.html

That's the democracy we keep banging on about and threatening to export to other countries, 26% think they were lied to :(

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There really is no point attempting to rationally discuss this with you MrK your in your own little world you were quite vocal about how dire things would happen if there was a leave vote and it would be almost immediate it didn't happen but rather then admit you got it wrong along with many politicians and experts you just say "brexit hasn't happened yet". I'm very aware of the state of things and certainly wouldn't choose you as a source for any information i needed as there are infinitely better resources for me you got it wrong it's that simple just give it up rather then desperate statements like "decades to come" which shows how badly your in denial.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Apologies, I think we have different definitions of corruption. I was thinking of dishonest behaviour, extortion or bribery, most often for personal gain. That was what I was struggling to find. I will read back through your examples, thank you.

On the who lied and when during the campaign, Full Fact and The UK In A Changing Europe (Funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC), and based at King’s College London) produced a nice booklet going through at least some of the claims made by both sides - http://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uplo...the-claims.pdf

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I wonder how many who voted remain think they were lied to? :scratch:

Seeing as almost every "consequence" of leaving the EU has not come to pass.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I certainly don't think I was lied to. Neither campaign seemed capable of putting out anything remotely comprehensible. Staying in was a simple choice as one new what that would be like. Leaving involved a leap in the dark.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Remain was certainly NOT the status quo and thus was also a leap in the dark.

Meanwhile:

Source

Civitas report (pdf)