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-   -   Government & Post Election Discussion (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33705028)

1andrew1 30-10-2018 10:53
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35968593)
The budget should have pleased you then, Andrew. :D
Mixed views:
In that it supports what I've been trying to prove to you - yes.
In that the budget deficit is kicked into the long grass in uncertain times - no.

denphone 30-10-2018 13:42
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35968599)
Mixed views:
In that it supports what I've been trying to prove to you - yes.
In that the budget deficit is kicked into the long grass in uncertain times - no.
Paul Johnson, the director of the IFS.

Quote:
It said there was possibly a one in three chance that the public finances would deteriorate significantly next year, adding that the judgment to increase spending could push the national debt higher.

Quote:
Paul Johnson, the director of the IFS, said: “When push comes to shove it’s not tax rises and it’s not the NHS that Mr Hammond is willing to gamble on, it’s the public finances.”

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ublic-finances

OLD BOY 30-10-2018 16:09
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35968599)
Mixed views:
In that it supports what I've been trying to prove to you - yes.
In that the budget deficit is kicked into the long grass in uncertain times - no.
But Corbyn sould just make the budget deficit worse!

I think it is right to ease off a little now we have the deficit down to this level. We're still paying it off, but helping to ease austerity at the same time. I'm sure that most people would say he's got the balance right.

As for the first comment, I don't know what you are referring to.

1andrew1 30-10-2018 16:44
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35968635)
But Corbyn sould just make the budget deficit worse!

I think it is right to ease off a little now we have the deficit down to this level. We're still paying it off, but helping to ease austerity at the same time. I'm sure that most people would say he's got the balance right.

As for the first comment, I don't know what you are referring to.
I honestly don't know why you keep trying to deflect this conversation to Corbyn. He's not in power and is unlikely to be unless BoJo and co stab Theresa May in the back and fail to support the deal she agrees with the EU. Hard Brexit is likely to mean Hard Labour. :D
I said that the Conservative Party couldn't raise spending, pay down borrowing and maintain/cut taxes. You believed it could.
The Chancellor has now stated that borrowing is to rise so we will postpone paying our debts off.

OLD BOY 30-10-2018 18:28
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35968640)
I honestly don't know why you keep trying to deflect this conversation to Corbyn. He's not in power and is unlikely to be unless BoJo and co stab Theresa May in the back and fail to support the deal she agrees with the EU. Hard Brexit is likely to mean Hard Labour. :D
I said that the Conservative Party couldn't raise spending, pay down borrowing and maintain/cut taxes. You believed it could.
The Chancellor has now stated that borrowing is to rise so we will postpone paying our debts off.
It is necessary to remind people of what Corbyn would do as many of May's detractors are left wing and would vote for Corbyn in a heartbeat. When they criticise the actions of the Conservatives, it is a sobering thought to take a look at Corbyn's alternative aspirations.

Any idiot can criticise. But if you criticise, you should have a viable alternative.

I know that not all those on the left of politics support Corbyn, but that's who you'd get if you voted Labour.

Regarding the issue of raising spending, paying down borrowing and maintaining or cutting taxes, yes you can, but it's a matter of degree. The intention is still to reduce the deficit and our debts, but not so quickly now so we can ease off the austerity.

Even Corbyn wouldn't have put £12bn extra into the NHS! But that move will gain a lot of public support, and the Chancellor and PM have certainly caught the public mood with that one.

Of course, if you are now indicating your disapproval of such a sum of money being allocated to our health service, that would be a bit of a U-turn for you, I would suggest! :D

Angua 31-10-2018 06:40
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35968661)
It is necessary to remind people of what Corbyn would do as many of May's detractors are left wing and would vote for Corbyn in a heartbeat. When they criticise the actions of the Conservatives, it is a sobering thought to take a look at Corbyn's alternative aspirations.

Any idiot can criticise. But if you criticise, you should have a viable alternative.

I know that not all those on the left of politics support Corbyn, but that's who you'd get if you voted Labour.

Regarding the issue of raising spending, paying down borrowing and maintaining or cutting taxes, yes you can, but it's a matter of degree. The intention is still to reduce the deficit and our debts, but not so quickly now so we can ease off the austerity.

Even Corbyn wouldn't have put £12bn extra into the NHS! But that move will gain a lot of public support, and the Chancellor and PM have certainly caught the public mood with that one.

Of course, if you are now indicating your disapproval of such a sum of money being allocated to our health service, that would be a bit of a U-turn for you, I would suggest! :D
This perfectly highlights the problems with our electoral system. No party has to listen to anyone but their membership and backers. The ordinary voters are left with somewhat of Hobsons choice.

OLD BOY 31-10-2018 07:47
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35968696)
This perfectly highlights the problems with our electoral system. No party has to listen to anyone but their membership and backers. The ordinary voters are left with somewhat of Hobsons choice.
Well, that's the way it works. Other countries do it differently. I don't think it produces better government that we should aspire to. I believe that our democracy is the best in the world and we should not be tampering with it except after very careful selection. Elections to the House of Lords could be done with some form of PR because that is a revising chamber and you could say that the views expressed better reflect the views of the public. However, it is important to have strong Government because that way legislative change can be robust and election promises kept more easily, with changes quickly introduced.

The current state of affairs in which the government is in a minority is not what we want on a permanent basis, but that is exactly what PR would produce - permanent coalitions with minority parties who often have very little electoral support proportionately.

Maggy 31-10-2018 08:08
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35968696)
This perfectly highlights the problems with our electoral system. No party has to listen to anyone but their membership and backers. The ordinary voters are left with somewhat of Hobsons choice.
Best way is to look at the incumbent party and see how terrific or useless they have been. Perhaps to ignore party politics altogether and to look at and research about the person you will be voting for as an MP.

Mr K 31-10-2018 08:20
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35968706)
Best way is to look at the incumbent party and see how terrific or useless they have been. Perhaps to ignore party politics altogether and to look at and research about the person you will be voting for as an MP.
However if you live in a 'non swing seat', which most are, your vote is virtually pointless. Every vote should count for something, but it depends which constituency you're in under our system.

denphone 31-10-2018 08:26
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35968707)
However if you live in a 'non swing seat', which most are, your vote is virtually pointless. Every vote should count for something, but it depends which constituency you're in under our system.
We live in a swing seat and given what has transpired in the last few years we shall certainly be voting on a good many issues affecting our constituency.

Mr K 31-10-2018 08:32
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35968708)
We live in a swing seat and given what has transpired in the last few years we shall certainly be voting on a good many issues affecting our constituency.
So its you they all need to convince Den ! ;)

tweetiepooh 31-10-2018 10:34
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
If you live in a "strong" seat area that's likely because the majority in that area are best represented by that party. In theory that could be a minority issue party that wouldn't stand a chance in a national PR type system.

I like the idea that anyone can stand in an area and could get elected.

As I've said before an unelected (unpaid) second house is also a good thing as a reforming chamber that doesn't have to worry about elections or even parties.

Angua 31-10-2018 16:42
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35968706)
Best way is to look at the incumbent party and see how terrific or useless they have been. Perhaps to ignore party politics altogether and to look at and research about the person you will be voting for as an MP.
In too many seats it really does not seem to matter what the MP is like, they will be elected to parliament because they are wearing the right colour rosette.

denphone 31-10-2018 16:45
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35968751)
In too many seats it really does not seem to matter what the MP is like, they will be elected to parliament because they are wearing the right colour rosette.
Where my parents live its basically a shoo in for one party ever since the seat was created.

denphone 07-11-2018 14:28
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
So much for clear , clean and transparent government.

Quote:
Experts hired by the government to test cladding 12 days after the Grenfell Tower fire were banned from criticising Theresa May or doing anything to embarrass her, The Times can reveal.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/g...deal-7mbdll6cj

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...pHmIetzIF2PjEc

1andrew1 09-11-2018 16:00
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Jo Johnson has resigned.https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/770362...nd-referendum/
#strongandstablegovernment

denphone 09-11-2018 16:18
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
So much for strong and stable government...

OLD BOY 10-11-2018 10:17
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35969846)
So much for strong and stable government...
It depends on what you are comparing it with, Den.

When you look at Corbyn's lot, Theresa appears to be in firm control! ;)

denphone 10-11-2018 10:24
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35969927)
It depends on what you are comparing it with, Den.

When you look at Corbyn's lot, Theresa appears to be in firm control! ;)
We are not talking about Corbyn and his calamities as there is a separate thread for that if you noticed.;)

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35969927)
It depends on what you are comparing it with, Den.

When you look at Corbyn's lot, Theresa appears to be in firm control! ;)
Well there is nothing like the blind leading the blind as you keep deluding yourself that everything is nice and rosy in HMG and you won't go far wrong.;)

Angua 10-11-2018 10:26
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35969928)
We are not talking about Corbyn and his calamities as there is a separate thread for that if you noticed.;)

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------



Well there is nothing like the blind leading the blind as you keep deluding yourself that everything is nice and rosy in HMG and you won't go far wrong.;)
It does seem hard for people to concentrate on this governments lurching from one resignation to another.

Sephiroth 10-11-2018 10:32
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35969927)
It depends on what you are comparing it with, Den.

When you look at Corbyn's lot, Theresa appears to be in firm control! ;)
Delusional.

1andrew1 10-11-2018 10:43
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35969927)
It depends on what you are comparing it with, Den.

When you look at Corbyn's lot, Theresa appears to be in firm control! ;)
A prime example of "what aboutery" when you know that Den's statement is correct and the subject matter has to be changed.

Angua 10-11-2018 10:47
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35969933)
A prime example of "what aboutery" when you know that Den's statement is correct and the subject matter has to be changed.
The only stable part of this government seems to be the DUP. Not an accolade they should be proud of.

But hey, the fan boys don't want to discuss the shambolic government in power, so deflection is their only response.

denphone 10-11-2018 10:51
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35969933)
A prime example of "what aboutery" when you know that Den's statement is correct and the subject matter has to be changed.
When you compare this current government to Conservative governments of the past they are as different as chalk and cheese.

Sephiroth 10-11-2018 12:32
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
As a Conservative, I’m ashamed of this government. You won’t get any Old Boy-isms from me on that topic.

When she’s toppled, I just hope the talent is there to re-establish the party in the electorate’s eyes. Starting with low taxation.

My understanding from sources is that TM’s inner circle is kept close and apart from that Hammond thing, is headed by that Olly Robbins thing; she decides everything before any discussions with her cabinet. As true for Brexit as for the last general election. Worst prime minister ever in my lifetime - worse even that Gordon Brown and that’s saying something.

Mr K 11-11-2018 17:07
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Great speech today by the French President, warning against the dangers of nationalism. Made in front of Trump and Putin too, you can only hope they and Brexiteers in our own country listened.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y_to_clipboard

OLD BOY 11-11-2018 18:20
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35969935)
When you compare this current government to Conservative governments of the past they are as different as chalk and cheese.
But of course you wouldn't want to compare the Conservative Government with the Labour Opposition, would you? Oh, no, that's just unfair! :D

denphone 11-11-2018 18:28
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970170)
But of course you wouldn't want to compare the Conservative Government with the Labour Opposition, would you? Oh, no, that's just unfair! :D
Again you miss my point completely with your typical deflection comment as we are not talking about the opposition as there is a separate thread for that for us all to comment and criticise on as we are talking about Conservative governments now and from the past unless one is blind to the discussion.

OLD BOY 12-11-2018 07:29
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970175)
Again you miss my point completely with your typical deflection comment as we are not talking about the opposition as there is a separate thread for that for us all to comment and criticise on as we are talking about Conservative governments now and from the past unless one is blind to the discussion.
No, I have not missed your point, I was putting your comments in context.

As for being the worst Conservative Government ever, this impression appears to have been gained because Brexit has been the main topic of debate for the last couple of years and other matters have taken a back seat. The whole thing has been frustrating for everyone. The public is concerned because they get only snippets of information and don't really know what's going on. You get ministers resigning because they don't think they will get everything they want and party discipline is difficult to maintain with the lack of a majority. That is exactly why TM went to the country last time, but unfortunately spectacularly failed to increase the number of seats. That appears to have been caused by the funding of social care arrangements. Two big issues that would have tested any government.

I will make my mind up about Theresa May's leadership when I see the result of this negotiation with the EU, and not before. Chequers is now dead apparently, so let's see what transpires. I think it is too early to rush to judgement yet, even though most of the population appear to have done so already.

Mr K 12-11-2018 08:05
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970205)
N That is exactly why TM went to the country last time, but unfortunately spectacularly failed to increase the number of seats. That appears to have been caused by the funding of social care arrangements. .
No , it was caused by them favouring some sections of society over others, and us clearly not 'all being in this together ' after all.

---------- Post added at 08:05 ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970205)
. Chequers is now dead apparently, so let's see what transpires. .
Have you told TM this OB ? She's 'Carrying on Regardless'....

Sephiroth 12-11-2018 08:24
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970159)
Great speech today by the French President, warning against the dangers of nationalism. Made in front of Trump and Putin too, you can only hope they and Brexiteers in our own country listened.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y_to_clipboard
Logically, Macron's right. But Nationalism defeats that sort of logic. I've often said that we look alike but don't think alike. Nationalism is an elaboration of that.

To make matters worse, power corrupts and people at the top of their countries don't want to cede a lot of power elsewhere. Indeed I see Macron as trying to be leader of the EU federation sort of thing.

For you then to associate Brexiteers with Putin and Trump isn't fair.

OLD BOY 12-11-2018 09:36
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970209)
No , it was caused by them favouring some sections of society over others, and us clearly not 'all being in this together ' after all.
By that, I assume you are referring to the austerity measures that were necessary as a result of the last Labour Government. Nice trick, to blame the Conservatives for that. Most voters of intelligence see through this narrative, however, which is why Corbyn will not win the next election.

Mr K 12-11-2018 09:46
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35970211)

For you then to associate Brexiteers with Putin and Trump isn't fair.
It's very fair. You're all talking the same divisive nationalistic language. The same sort of language that has led to conflicts in the past.

OLD BOY 12-11-2018 09:50
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970225)
It's very fair. You're all talking the same divisive nationalistic language. The same sort of language that has led to conflicts in the past.
No, it's the remoaners who are being devisive for advocating that the government ignores the will of the majority of the voting electorate. You are looking at this from the wrong end of your binoculars.

Mr K 12-11-2018 09:51
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970223)
By that, I assume you are referring to the austerity measures that were necessary as a result of the last Labour Government. Nice trick, to blame the Conservatives for that. Most voters of intelligence see through this narrative, however, which is why Corbyn will not win the next election.
No I'm mainly referring to the protection of elderly Tory voters at the expense of the young. and the ever widening North/South divide. All in this together - my backside !

(Austerity btw was a result of the worldwide economic crisis and the greedy (B)ankers who still haven't been made to account. )

Sephiroth 12-11-2018 10:02
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970225)
It's very fair. You're all talking the same divisive nationalistic language. The same sort of language that has led to conflicts in the past.
Outageous. Brexiteers don't put people directly into furnaces to be burnt alive (Putin's FSB); Brexiteers don't come near to Trump and his antics.

You are objecting to Nationalism so we can put aside Putin/Trump whose brand of Nationalism is unacceptable to most of us.

Is Nationalism reasonable in the UK's case? I rather think it is in the sense that breaking away from the EU and its federalisation policy, where our interests and differences can be snuffed by the other members, can be both rationalised and justified.

We walk away from bullies is how I see that. You call it Nationalism.

Mr K 12-11-2018 10:21
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35970231)
Outageous. Brexiteers don't put people directly into furnaces to be burnt alive (Putin's FSB); Brexiteers don't come near to Trump and his antics.

You are objecting to Nationalism so we can put aside Putin/Trump whose brand of Nationalism is unacceptable to most of us.

Is Nationalism reasonable in the UK's case? I rather think it is in the sense that breaking away from the EU and its federalisation policy, where our interests and differences can be snuffed by the other members, can be both rationalised and justified.

We walk away from bullies is how I see that. You call it Nationalism.
Well it's no coincidence Farage is Trump's best buddy... They talk the same language.

Mick 12-11-2018 10:43
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970235)
Well it's no coincidence Farage is Trump's best buddy... They talk the same language.
Yes, that would be English, which pretty much covers every other politician. :dunce:

I really don't see the point in these political threads anymore - it's the same shitty inaccurate bullshit arguments posted/cycled every god damn day/week/month. :rolleyes:

Mr K 12-11-2018 10:50
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35970238)
Yes, that would be English, which pretty much covers every other politician. :dunce:

I really don't see the point in these political threads anymore - it's the same shitty inaccurate bullshit arguments posted/cycled every god damn day/week/month. :rolleyes:
Maybe concentrate on the 'Happy thought' thread then Mick ? ;) You be good at that for sure :)

denphone 12-11-2018 11:00
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35970238)
Yes, that would be English, which pretty much covers every other politician. :dunce:

I really don't see the point in these political threads anymore - it's the same shitty inaccurate bullshit arguments posted/cycled every god damn day/week/month. :rolleyes:
But close the political threads and its highly likely other threads linked to politics will be started again by members on here.

Mick 12-11-2018 11:15
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970243)
But close the political threads and its highly likely other threads linked to politics will be started again by members on here.
Who mentioned thread closure in this topic or other similar topics, with the exception to Trump thread, which I do think should be closed, as we did not have an Obama blog thread, or Bush topic ?

I merely just pointed out that it's same mundane arguments, again and again.

And to just get back to your point, as forum policy dictates if a thread is closed on particular topic, another one must not be started, so if any member decided to break these forum policies, I swing the ban hammer. Simples. But we are not here, yet. ;)

denphone 12-11-2018 11:27
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35970247)
Who mentioned thread closure in this topic or other similar topics, with the exception to Trump thread, which I do think should be closed, as we did not have an Obama blog thread, or Bush topic ?
Perhaps you should rename the Trump thread so that it entails the full breath of American politics.

OLD BOY 12-11-2018 11:28
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970227)
No I'm mainly referring to the protection of elderly Tory voters at the expense of the young. and the ever widening North/South divide. All in this together - my backside !

(Austerity btw was a result of the worldwide economic crisis and the greedy (B)ankers who still haven't been made to account. )
For heaven’s sake, Mr K! How is Brexit ‘protecting’ the elderly? Most people who voted Brexit did so to protect our future as a country.

Labour may not have been responsible for the financial crash, but it was certainly responsible for the failure to have sufficient reserves to cushion the blow.

Remember who sold all our gold reserves (and incidentally, raided our pensions), do we?

denphone 12-11-2018 11:30
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35970247)
I merely just pointed out that it's same mundane arguments, again and again.
Sadly that is what politics does as go down to your local social club and pub and they will be having the same arguments about the same subjects.

---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35970247)

And to just get back to your point, as forum policy dictates if a thread is closed on particular topic, another one must not be started, so if any member decided to break these forum policies, I swing the ban hammer. Simples. But we are not here, yet. ;)
Well l will lets you swing the hammer at someone else on that matter if it happens.;)

Sephiroth 12-11-2018 12:01
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970235)
Well it's no coincidence Farage is Trump's best buddy... They talk the same language.
Nothing to do with anything of relevance. Complete red herring.

1andrew1 12-11-2018 21:49
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr k (Post 35970235)
well it's no coincidence farage is trump's best buddy... They talk the same language.
да

heero_yuy 15-11-2018 09:29
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Latest odds on TM's replacement:

Jeremy Corbyn: 5/1
Dominic Raab: 6/1
Boris Johnson: 8/1
David Davis: 8/1

Full odds at Ladbrokes

denphone 15-11-2018 09:31
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35970832)
Latest odds on TM's replacement:

Jeremy Corbyn: 5/1
Dominic Raab: 6/1
Boris Johnson: 8/1
David Davis: 8/1

Full odds at Ladbrokes
Well with 20 Minister's having resigned from Theresa May’s government in her two year premiership there ain't much of a choice left.;)

Carth 15-11-2018 09:35
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970833)
Well with 20 Minister's having resigned from Theresa May’s government in her two year premiership there ain't much of a choice left.;)
I'll do it, at my age I've seen and heard enough political BS that I have no problem telling others to . . . well, you know :D

Sephiroth 15-11-2018 09:38
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
It's good that things are coming to a head. Matters will take their course and it is unlikely, for what my opinion is worth, that there will be a General Election. There'll be a new Tory PM who will steady the ship. The right person can steer us through No Deal (who might that person be you will ask); let's see. It'll be fun anyway so long as Corbyn doesn't get into power.

denphone 15-11-2018 09:41
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
And would that new Tory PM be? as l don't see anybody out there that would unite the government and the country.

Mr K 15-11-2018 09:44
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970843)
And would that new Tory PM be? as l don't see anybody out there that would unite the government and the country.
Ken Clarke ;)

denphone 15-11-2018 09:45
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970845)
Ken Clarke ;)
With his hush puppies and puffing cigar.;)

Mr K 15-11-2018 09:47
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970846)
With his hush puppies and puffing cigar.;)
he made a great health secretary with his chain smoking ,brandy swigging and business interests in the tobacco industry ! He still represents the more sane bit of the Tory party, let the rest go to UKIP.

denphone 15-11-2018 09:49
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970848)
he made a great health secretary with his chain smoking ,brandy swigging and business interests in the tobacco industry ! He still represents the more sane bit of the Tory party, let the rest go to UKIP.
John Major was pretty sane as well given the troubles he had all around him in his party.

Angua 15-11-2018 09:53
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970851)
John Major was pretty sane as well given the troubles he had all around him in his party.
Just this image of his having an affair is still hard to comprehend.

Carth 15-11-2018 09:57
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
I thought his 'spitting image' was brilliant :D


if anyone can remember the program

denphone 15-11-2018 10:00
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35970857)
I thought his 'spitting image' was brilliant :D


if anyone can remember the program
l can remember it quite well.:D

OLD BOY 15-11-2018 10:05
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
I think the talent is there for a good Prime Minister to emerge from the Conservative Party, if they actually wanted to lead.

I think Rees Mogg should be appointed now as Brexit Secretary. Like him or not, he has a very sharp mind and will not only take on the EU but also know exactly what to do in the event of a no deal.

He won't stand for any nonsense from the EU, that's for sure!

heero_yuy 15-11-2018 10:24
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Bookies now have Boris Johnson leading the pack at 5/1 to replace TM.

Carth 15-11-2018 10:32
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
I'm surprised Jeremy Clarkson isn't among the leading pack :D

Sephiroth 15-11-2018 11:56
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970848)
he made a great health secretary with his chain smoking ,brandy swigging and business interests in the tobacco industry ! He still represents the more sane bit of the Tory party, let the rest go to UKIP.
I've got some sympathy with that - but it won't happen because of his age. I voted for Clarke in the Cameron round of choice by the membership.

Had a curry with him in the eighties when he was Education & Science Secretary. Head firmly screwed onto his shoulders.

heero_yuy 15-11-2018 14:35
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Apart from too old Clarke is a remainer and europhile so May's fracture lines would remain as well.

Quote:
Quote from The Sun:

Furious Tories led by Jacob Rees-Mogg are this afternoon pulling the trigger on a leadership challenge to Theresa May.

Boris Johnson joined an emergency meeting of mutinous MPs this afternoon where plotters were set to launch a vote of no confidence in the PM after a wave of resignations over her Brexit deal.

Mr Rees-Mogg, who chairs the powerful European Research Group of pro-Brexit Tories, today called for Mrs May to resign - adding that a Brexiteer such as BoJo should replace her.

His decision to send a letter backing a leadership challenge will encourage allies to do likewise - putting the PM's career in mortal danger.

It comes as ex-Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab, who lit the touch paper on the crisis by quitting this morning, told the BBC he wouldn't rule out running for leader when she is toppled.
Might we get our own version of the Donald? :D

denphone 15-11-2018 14:38
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Not a chance of Jacob Rees-Mogg uniting his own party let alone the country IMO.

Angua 15-11-2018 14:47
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970944)
Not a chance of Jacob Rees-Mogg uniting his own party let alone the country IMO.
Like Jeremy leading the Labour party did more to boost the Tories. Jacob leading the Tories would do more to boost the opposition.

denphone 15-11-2018 14:51
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35970947)
Like Jeremy leading the Labour party did more to boost the Tories. Jacob leading the Tories would do more to boost the opposition.
Exactly as if Labour had a decent leader they would be way ahead in the polls given the grave crisis we have in this country now..

nashville 15-11-2018 17:01
Re: Queens Speech (Government Plans) 2017
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35904214)
We have had our smart meter for 2 years now and thus so far we are pretty happy with it.
I read the other day that the Energy companies will be charging customers £150 a year if you do not have a Smart Meter. This is Blackmail to me. I do not have one yet but not really interested from stories I have heard.

Hugh 15-11-2018 19:58
Re: Queens Speech (Government Plans) 2017
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville (Post 35970970)
I read the other day that the Energy companies will be charging customers £150 a year if you do not have a Smart Meter. This is Blackmail to me. I do not have one yet but not really interested from stories I have heard.
They are offering their cheapest tariffs to customers who accept a Smart Meter - tariffs without a Smart Meter may cost up to £150 per year more.

Angua 15-11-2018 22:53
Re: Queens Speech (Government Plans) 2017
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35970990)
They are offering their cheapest tariffs to customers who accept a Smart Meter - tariffs without a Smart Meter may cost up to £150 per year more.
Not all of the "they" are doing this. Some of the smaller companies do not do smart meters and are cheaper than the main 5.

Anyone who sticks with the same energy supplier all the time will pay for the reductions they offer new customers.

Hugh 16-11-2018 00:25
Re: Queens Speech (Government Plans) 2017
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35971018)
Not all of the "they" are doing this. Some of the smaller companies do not do smart meters and are cheaper than the main 5.

Anyone who sticks with the same energy supplier all the time will pay for the reductions they offer new customers.
That’s because the smaller companies aren’t being mandated by the Government to install Smart Meters in their customers’ premises, so don’t have the overhead cost.

Mr K 16-11-2018 08:57
Re: Queens Speech (Government Plans) 2017
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35971023)
That’s because the smaller companies aren’t being mandated by the Government to install Smart Meters in their customers’ premises, so don’t have the overhead cost.

Yes i always go for the smaller cheaper companies. So what if 2 of them went bust ! Hasn't affected me at all, and i've got the cheapest (same) energy in the meantime.

As for Smart meters - don't trust them, they snoop on you and fry your brains ;) Seriously - if hacked, someone would be able to tell when you're away/out of the house, using no energy.

heero_yuy 16-11-2018 10:04
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Quote from The Sun:


Theresa May's government could lose the support of its DUP allies unless the Tory party replace her with a new leader, according to reports.

The Northern Irish party would vote down the withdrawal agreement in Parliament, adding that its support now “depended on who the leader of the Conservative Party is,” The Daily Telegraph reports.

The party's deputy today savaged the PM in the Commons, saying she clearly "doesn't listen" to them and their Brexit demands.

Nigel Dodds told the Prime Minister this morning: "We stand up for the whole of the UK, the integrity of the UK or we vote for a vassal state with the break up of the UK."

He commended ex-Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab and DWP boss Esther McVey who both quit today over her Brexit deal.
Link to source article above.

denphone 16-11-2018 10:08
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
And if they get rid of her it will be all out civil war in the Conservative party and make these last few days seem like a cosy tea party.

Mr K 16-11-2018 10:13
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35971055)
And if they get rid of her it will be all out civil war in the Conservative party and make these last few days seem like a cosy tea party.
The decline of the Roman Empire was much like this ;)

OLD BOY 16-11-2018 10:25
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35971055)
And if they get rid of her it will be all out civil war in the Conservative party and make these last few days seem like a cosy tea party.
I don't think that a crash and burn situation would be good for the country, so let's not look forward to that with great relish, Den.

---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35971057)
The decline of the Roman Empire was much like this ;)
Quite a harbinger of doom, aren't we, Mr K?

denphone 16-11-2018 10:29
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35971061)
I don't think that a crash and burn situation would be good for the country, so let's not look forward to that with great relish, Den.
l never stated that l would look forward to that OB but you know as well as l do that that scenario cannot be ruled out given how things are transpiring in front of our eyes.

ianch99 16-11-2018 12:12
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35971057)
The decline of the Roman Empire was much like this ;)
I hope not! That took 100+ years to play out ...

denphone 16-11-2018 12:17
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35971072)
I hope not! That took 100+ years to play out ...
And there were plenty of backstabbing , power grabbing and assassinations during that time as well.;)

Dave42 16-11-2018 16:12
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Sky News
‏
Verified account

@SkyNews
33s
33 seconds ago


More
"Amber Rudd is going back into cabinet" - @AmberRuddHR MP has been appointed work and pensions secretary, according to Sky sources.

1andrew1 16-11-2018 16:24
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Leading Brexiteers in the cabinet have rallied behind Theresa May amid attempts to unseat her by Tory MPs.
Michael Gove said he "absolutely" had confidence in Mrs May as he confirmed he would not be following several other ministers out of the door.
And Liam Fox urged MPs to support the PM's draft Brexit agreement, saying a "deal was better than no deal".
Amber Rudd has been confirmed as the new work and pensions secretary after Esther McVey's resignation on Thursday.
A replacement for Dominic Raab, who also resigned as Brexit Secretary over the deal, has yet to be announced.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46230281

papa smurf 16-11-2018 16:32
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35971091)
Gove will stay in knife in the back range while he plots when to deliver the final blow.

richard s 16-11-2018 18:32
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
A right sniffling git is Grove...

Mr K 16-11-2018 18:37
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35971093)
Gove will stay in knife in the back range while he plots when to deliver the final blow.
Oh he'll get someone else to do that; Then he'll step over the bodies and be the innocent 'whilst not seeking public office myself, at this time of crisis I feel I must step up.... Etc etc'. #oilysnake

1andrew1 16-11-2018 21:46
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
UK government ministers are in a “state of denial” over the “social calamity” of deprivation in the country, a senior United Nations fact-finder has said at the end of a 12-day visit.
Philip Alston, the UN special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, said it was “patently unjust and contrary to British values” that so many people in the UK lived in poverty.
The assessment by Prof Alston is one of the most damning yet by an outside expert of a range of policies, including the universal credit welfare reforms, which are widely blamed for widening the UK’s social divisions.
The rapporteur was also fiercely critical of the disproportionate effect on women of some recent changes. He said that if a group of misogynists had been asked to draw up their preferred policies, they would scarcely have differed from what had been implemented.
Prof Alston suggested that the UK was heading towards becoming an “alienated society” with dramatic differences between what would once have been referred to as the upper and lower classes.
https://www.ft.com/content/55746268-...c-e64da4c0f981

Mr K 16-11-2018 21:59
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35971145)
Maybe we'll try to leave the United Nations next ! :rolleyes:

1andrew1 16-11-2018 22:09
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35971148)
Maybe we'll try to leave the United Nations next ! :rolleyes:
One farce at a time please! :D

papa smurf 17-11-2018 09:30
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35971123)
Oh he'll get someone else to do that; Then he'll step over the bodies and be the innocent 'whilst not seeking public office myself, at this time of crisis I feel I must step up.... Etc etc'. #oilysnake
Already started

Michael Gove leading Cabinet 'gang of five

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...e-theresa-may/

Dave42 19-11-2018 20:01
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
according to Robert Peston the deal with tories and DUP close to being ripped up general election more likely

https://twitter.com/Peston

denphone 19-11-2018 20:13
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35971477)
according to Robert Peston the deal with tories and DUP close to being ripped up general election more likely

https://twitter.com/Peston
Not sure a general election would change things though as its still highly likely we would be in hung parliament territory again.

Dave42 19-11-2018 20:19
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35971485)
Not sure a general election would change things though as its still highly likely we would be in hung parliament territory again.
yes agree think it be hung parliament maybe with labour largest party this time though we see

denphone 19-11-2018 20:22
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35971489)
yes agree think it be hung parliament maybe with labour largest part this time though we see
It is hard to say who will have the most seats but there won't be much in it.

1andrew1 20-11-2018 00:14
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
I think May's position was strengthened by the hardliner's failure to get 48 signatures. As one Tory MP said, "This is how Vote Leave would have looked without Dominic Cummings." :D

But now, the actions of the DUP today make her position weaker.

So, in this coalition of chaos, it's pretty much a game of snakes and ladders. More interesting to watch than play unless you're one of the many snakes. ;)

Mick 20-11-2018 00:18
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
I think her government is now on the brink of collapse without the DUP support.

Mr K 20-11-2018 09:41
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35971557)
I think her government is now on the brink of collapse without the DUP support.
Nah don't think so. They whinge and squeal and cause general trouble but they don't want a Corbyn govt. Anyway looks like a lot of their supporters in the business and farming sectors are happy with the current Brexit deal. Don't bite the hand that votes for you !
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...l-despite-dup/
https://www.farminglife.com/farming-...ment-1-8707861

nashville 20-11-2018 11:49
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
I wish they would just back T May and get on with it, N Sturgeon is now having a field day and is going for Indy 2". God Help Us ,

1andrew1 21-11-2018 00:08
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
May's strength is the weakness and ineptitude of the opposition both within and outside the Conservative Party.

denphone 21-11-2018 04:34
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35971725)
May's strength is the weakness and ineptitude of the opposition both within and outside the Conservative Party.
l can't remember thus so far in my life have we ever had such a rag tag of incompetent disreputable politicians then we have now from the two main parties.

OLD BOY 21-11-2018 07:41
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35971732)
l can't remember thus so far in my life have we ever had such a rag tag of incompetent disreputable politicians then we have now from the two main parties.
I can. I remember the last Labour Government, who couldn't even hold on to a Home Secretary for more than 5 minutes due to crass incompetence.

They were, however, good at plundering our gold reserves and pensions, and spending every last penny in the bank. They were really quite exceptional in that respect.

1andrew1 21-11-2018 09:20
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35971732)
l can't remember thus so far in my life have we ever had such a rag tag of incompetent disreputable politicians then we have now from the two main parties.
Let's hope it's a blip and that talent hasn't decided against the world of politics.

Angua 21-11-2018 10:40
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35971732)
l can't remember thus so far in my life have we ever had such a rag tag of incompetent disreputable politicians then we have now from the two main parties.
There does seem to be a severe lack of genuinely passionate MPs in all parties.

Too many career politicians, rather than those who become MPs to make a difference.


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