Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

But do you actually hate them though? You might dislike them, not agree with their views or choose not to socialise with them, but hate is a very strong word.

Right now I hate Putin for what he's needlessly doing and putting people through.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Do you actually hate him though? You might dislike him, not agree with his views or choose not to socialise with him, but hate is a very strong word

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

True, but it wouldn't be appropriate to express the hate for no good reason and doing so could also be illegal in some circumstances.

It's also a very negative emotion that doesn't do the person hating any good either.

---------- Post added at 15:36 ---------- Previous post was at 15:29 ----------

Yes, his crimes against humanity are too much for me to forgive, much the same as Hitler.

However, I do believe that anybody can learn from their mistakes and improve themselves. In fact this is what I believe is the main purpose of our lives spent on this Earth.

Speaking about her faith, the Queen said:

Maybe i'm in the wrong for hating and not forgiving such people, but it will be a power far greater than I to do so.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I've heard he's a great bloke and he's trying to turn his life around.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Simple answer Yes i do have a hatred for certain people. Mostly because of what they have done or what the represent

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Hate is always wrong. Dislike by all means but hate not me. I might say I hate something in anger but never actually do hate

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You 'hate' someone you have never met, or interacted with in any way ?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

What’s the difference? I’m not actually sure what that means.

What’s the difference between saying hate and doing hate?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The bill has cross party support, it's only being put through via the Conservatives because they happen to be in power at the moment.

Unilaterally excluding or ignoring disabled people is morally questionable and could have legal consequences.

The aim is to be inclusive and for everyone to treat each other with kindness and respect, both on and offline.

---------- Post added at 01:48 ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 ----------

Yes, it's obviously not always neccessary to meet someone to hate them, what they stand for and what they are all about, particularly in extreme cases. Are you suggesting that this individual is not worthy of hatred for what he's done/is doing?

---------- Post added at 01:55 ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 ----------

A Womans Hour podcast about the online harrassment/abuse that women are routinely exposed to. They don't believe that the Online Safety Bill goes far enough to protect women:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017cfy

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Ummm, you were saying ....

Yes. I've never met the guy, so how can I "hate" him.

What a surprise, becasue no one else except women ever get harrassed.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So I responded to someone's (clearly) stupid rant on social media yesterday, basically gave an opinion which was totally backed up with facts. There was no malice, no disrespect etc towards the person.

Then came the responses from the 'You okay hun' crowd.... Just because I didn't agree with the rant I was flamed with just about every insult going. Nothing I said warranted any kind of those insults or the abuse, but just because I didn't agree it seems fair game to be open to abuse. The point is that's just the mentality of crowd followers these days, nothing will change this regardless of any online laws that come in.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I think you have misinterpreted what I said. My view was:

“Maybe we should have a list of all those with a disability that leads to hurt, misinterpretation and OTT reactions. Then we could just put them all on ‘ignore’ and everyone would be happy.”

I was not saying that everyone with a disability could be put on ignore, just those who appeared to be hypersensitive and obsessive with whom you could not have a sensible and adult conversation without being accused of stuff you didn’t say or mean.

It’s just not worth discussing anything with some people, who are more trouble than they are worth.

I’m pretty sure I remember you saying something about putting people on ignore yourself in the past.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I stay out of those 'discussions' mainly because they aren't discussions.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Because you are aware of what he's done to all those innocent people! Hitler died before I was born, but I still hate him and the things that he did.

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:08 ----------

People do tend to use the term inappropriately. Someone might say that they hate bananas, but in reality they mean they dislike them.

It's the same with the phrase "I'm going to kill you", people don't tend to mean this literally, though you never know. I know of a man who said in the pub that he was going to kill his wife when he got home and actually did.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I don’t hate Hitler, far from it, I find him a very interesting person and worthy of study.

What he and his cohort did was of course reprehensible, but he is a figure of history and removed from me by several degrees of magnitude, so I don’t hate him.

If I was of Jewish heritage with family in the holocaust, I’m sure I’d think differently.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

He wasn't a bad artist, a vegetarian and liked dogs.

Still an evil ******* though.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So I should hate someone I dont know, based on what (Im told) they have done to other people that I also dont know ?

Wow .... :dozey:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Don't you believe that the holocaust took place?

Are you not able to have empathy for people just because you've never met them?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

What has that got to do with anything :confused:

Not really, no.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Just been reading about Patrick McDonagh, a 12 year old boy, who has sadly taken his own life after being bullied on TikTok. This has to stop.

---------- Post added at 14:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:01 ----------

I just wondered after you said it would be based on what you'd been told that Hitler had done to other people. I wondered whether you thought that, because of this, there was a possibility that the accounts of the holocaust were false.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You need a decent run up to make that leap.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You would need bionic legs.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Twitter have deployed an algorithm to try and spot posts that appear to be aggressive. When they are spotted, the sender receives a prompt to be more considerate.

They found that 9% were removed, 22% were revised and 69% remained unchanged.

It's the first item where they review the papers and this was reported in the Guardian:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0018khg

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

This case, where a 13 year old autustic boy was was murdered by two 14 year olds as after he apparently offended one of them on social media, was highlighted on the BBC this morning:

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/olly-step...ear-old/131979

What can happen with neuro diverse people is that they can inadvertently offend someone without meaning to or realising it and this is what may have happened here.

It is hoped that the Online Safety Bill will protect others from being subject to the violence and hate that Olly was exposed to.

It's suspected that young people are becoming desensitised to violence due to the sharing on videos that suggest violence.

Nadine Dorries has stated that material that is legal, but harmful, will shortly be defined to enable websites to comply with this.

Failure to do so could be dealt with by fines and those who fail to demonstrate to Ofcom that they are doing something about this risk becoming criminally liable and going to prison.

It's from about 0:22:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0018kfc

This will be covered in more depth in tonight's Panorama on BBC1 at 8pm.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Starts from 23min in.

It is a tragic case, but whilst social media has a lot to blame it isn't the cause. Take the Bulger case etc.

I don't understand in the reports things like 'The trial was held in special conditions, with frequent breaks and counsel removing their gowns and wigs, due to the defendants’ ages.' Or not naming them because of their age. If they are guilty then age shouldn't come into it and should be named, shamed and made an example.

If you can knife a kid or anyone at any age, then I can't see what social media or any restrictions to it will make the slightest bit of difference. Social background and the lack of discipline these days when it comes to children has more of an effect than social media.

And I haven't got a clue to why stating someone with neuro whatever has got to do it this or anything.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Olly was neuro diverse, which is ultimately why he was murdered.

It's said that he offended one of his murderers by posting something on social media. It's often the case that neuro diverse people can inadvertently offend people without meaning to or knowing it.

Someone called Osem used to post on here and I remember him saying that his autistic son had said something that was inappropriately honest, so he had to try and explain that, whilst what he was saying was true, people don't take too kindly to some things being said and that it could land him in trouble or even serious danger.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So he defended someone. And.... So are you saying someone who is not 'neuro diverse' wouldn't have defended someone on social media? Blimey I say things that offend others all too often but there's nothing wrong with my noggin.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Obviously, it's possible for a neuro typical person to offend someone, but the difference is that they usually know that they are doing it and/or actively go out to be offensive.

It's worth noting that, as neuro diverse conditions are now being picked up in children more successfully, it's now though that some conditions could be genetic.

Some parents of affected children have also been diagnosed with conditions such as aspergers syndrome and say that it explains so many problematic things that have occurred during their life.

There must be a lot of people out there who don't believe that they are neuro diverse, but actually are, because they've never been tested or had a formal diagnosis. Some years ago this actually happened to a friend of mine. He described himself as one who "says it as it is" and "who speaks his mind" and couldn't understand anyone who didn't do the same thing.

However, it turned out that he had aspergers and says that this explains why his relationships and friendships never lasted and why he was lonely, so he's now trying to moderate his remarks or not say anything at all in various situations.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

What happened could have happened to anyone. It wasn't because of his neuro problems it was because the others were just ****. Why can't you understand that.

On here it is very moderated, speaking your mind will probably offend others and you're not really allowed to say exactly what you're thinking either. But in real life, I value those that do speak their mind, be direct and are honest. It has nothing to do with Neuro bollocks, so please give it a rest.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Richard, how would the new legislation have stopped this boy from offending someone?It wouldn’t, and if the people who were upset couldn’t post their responses, they would have confronted him physically.

The Bill would create a raft of unforeseen consequences and it needs to be ditched.

If people are easily offended, maybe they should be discouraged from using social media.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Couldn't agree more.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

If he hadn't of been neuro diverse, he would probably have worded the remarks differently or not made them at all.

The murderers are indeed **** for not taking his disability into account and reacting in the way that they did.

The social media murder is now available online:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0018kg6

---------- Post added at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was at 17:54 ----------

They did confront him physically- they murdered him!

How it's believed that the Online Harms Bill would have helped is included in the programme, which is now available on the iPlayer:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0018kg6

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

They would just have confronted him earlier, Richard.

The point I was making was that the proposed Online Harms legislation would not have prevented him from offending someone.

---------- Post added at 20:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:59 ----------

Unfortunately, it would be a stretch for murderers to consider the Equality Act before deciding to murder someone. I very much doubt they would have completed a risk assessment either.

I’m not making light of this, Richard, but the argument that you are putting forward has no alignment with reality.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Offence is taken, not given. It’s totally subjective.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

No one should be murdered. Period. Let's all agree on that.

Richard's just asking people to be sensible and consider the neuro diversity of the person whose words could be considered offensive before jumping to conclusions.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

"we can rebuild him" :D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Agreed.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

We understand completely what Richard wants. I am simply explaining that the thinking to rectify these problems is wrong.

No-one on here has justified murdering anyone.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Ok to get back to the original question.How have the police got tough on internet trolls?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That statement pretty much goes against the egalitarian principles of the internet ?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

They haven't have they?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I said discourage, not prevent. If people are going to be upset by people disagreeing with them, they should be helped to make the right decisions about how to live their lives.

Personally, I get fed up with minorities trying to tell me what to do, and I am not alone in this. So now I’m telling them what they should do.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Just out of curiosity, what minority has tried to tell you what to do, and what was it they tried to tell you to do?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

By that statement it would appear that you need to be helped with making the right decisions on how to live your life ?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Isn't the proposed legislation attempting to do just that following the complaints made by snowflakes?

---------- Post added at 19:17 ---------- Previous post was at 19:11 ----------

That makes no sense. I am quite sure how I should live my life. But Richard's much anticipated legislation is about minority groups telling me and you what to think.

This is completely wrong. It's nothing more than curtailing free speech, which is exactly what communist types want. I'm not falling into that trap.

Vulnerable people need proper advice on how to live their lives. Clamping down on the majority is not the answer, and sooner or later such an outcome would rebound big time. I want to avoid that, but you seem to be one of those stoking that outcome.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So it’s never happened, then?

Your statement was in the Present Tense (The present tense is used for actions which are happening now), but the proposed Legislation is in the future.

Sounds like you’re "fed up being told what to do", but actually, no one is telling you what to do…

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Ahem. I may have said ‘me’ but I was referring to all of us. Minorities telling us what to do.

I’m all for making sure that minorities are not disadvantaged as far as is reasonable, but when they try to tell us what to do, it is a bit much.

The dictatorship of the minoritariat.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

A bit presumptuous of you… :rolleyes:

Also

Well done, you…

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The police have toughened up their response in serious cases, such as the incidents where three black footballers were subject to racist remarks last year.

However, rather than burden the already overstretched police force with the task of policing the internet, it was decided to ask site owners to voluntarily police inappropriate content themselves.

This idea of a voluntary code of conduct failed miserably as most appear to be only interested in making money and nothing else.

The Online Safety Bill is a more robust effort to force self regulation onto site owners, administrators, moderators etc by the introduction of new legislation that will, amongst other things, require the people involved to have a statutory duty of care, particularly for the more vulnerable members of society, such as children, the disabled and other protected groups.

Sanctions will include personal fines and imprisonment for failing to do so, so it's imperitive that those that this affects familiarise themselves with the forthcoming legislation.

Ofcom have advised me that the bill is expected to become law in about six months, so we're talking round about Christmas time.

---------- Post added 24-06-2022 at 00:10 ---------- Previous post was 23-06-2022 at 22:43 ----------

It's not just our Government that's taking action against trolls.

The first article in this week's Digital Planet looks at the tougher stance being taken by Japan on those who post insults or indulge in cyber bullying. Those who indulge in this behaviour can now be imprisoned after legislation was updated; they say that their constitution prevents free speech from being impacted. This follows the death of a reality star after this was done to her to the extent that she took her own life:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct31

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The Online Safety Bill originally only concerned itself with adverts in relation to online fraud.

As internet based fraud is getting even more out of control, amendments have been made to also include user generated fraud and to name fraud as a priority illegal offence that websites must deal with. This means that they must go further than simply taking appropriate action when fraudulent activity is brought to their attention, but to take steps to minimise the chance of such activity making it onto their websites in the first place.

The bill is progressing well and will become law after going through Parliament, the House of Lords and secondary legislation has been passed.

Platforms are urged not to wait until the bill receives royal assent, but to begin taking steps to protect users now.

It's the first feature in this edition if You & Yours:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0018x03

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I'm sorry, but to me, this seems like a woke's charter and will only succeed in diverting the police from going after criminals and curtailing free speech.

I expected better from a Conservative government. The wokes are winning and must be stopped.

Surely, there are better ways of protecting those who are vulnerable than going for these heavy handed measures.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

But you live in "Woke"ingham - doesn't that make you a Wokey?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Probably, sadly. :bigcry:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

More vague nonsense ...
"take steps to minimise the chance of such activity making it onto their websites in the first place"
Such as what exactly ?

Put a notice on the site "Please dont commit fraud, thanks" ?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Crystal ball required for all website admins.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The right to free speech in relation to airing views that are no longer deemed acceptable in modern society, the right for people not to be offended by such views and the Online Harms Bill were discussed in this evenings Moral Maze:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0018xfd

---------- Post added at 23:03 ---------- Previous post was at 22:57 ----------

In order to make sure that website owners/managers don't fall foul of the new legislation, Ofcom told me that a lot of sites are reevaluating their rules, acceptable use policies, moderation policies and undergoing training/retraining to fully understand their duties & responsibilities with regards to the Act.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The desire to clean up the internet seems to be spreading around the world:

- The EU Parliament has approved two bills designed to strengthen their rulebook. They include standards to tackle the spread of unlawful content online, with sites facing huge fines for violations as per BBC Click News from about 0.12;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0019832

- Japan has introduced a one year term of imprisonment for those who insult others online. This follows the death of a reality TV star who took his own life after becoming the target of online trolls:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...cli/index.html

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The problem is who gets to choose just what is inappropriate and are they fit to do the job.Freedom of speech is on the line here and in some countries it's pretty clear that the line is drawn in favour of non democratic governments.

"In other words I may not like what you have to say but I defend your right to say it."

Sort of attributed to Voltaire but recently claimed by others.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

In the UK it will be the job of site owners/managers/admin/moderators to either spot and deal with inappropriate posts before they cause any problems or appropriately deal with any complaints that are received.

If they fail to do this, Ofcom will have a variety of powers open to them, such as fines & imprisonment. These sanctions for non compliance can also be used against individuals, not just the companies/individuals that own the sites.

This is why I think that training is essential before the act comes into force.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So who decides what is inappropriate? How do they get picked? Who picks them?Just who are TPTB who get to decide on our behalf and who got to pick them on our behalf?

If we can't trust our government not to lie,cheat,steal how can we trust them to pick anyone to oversee standards on the internet and not to pick people that will defend their outlook on standards.Whose standards are we,you,they defending?One size fits all NEVER works.People will be offended at the mildest of 'offences'.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Those who manage sites on the frontline will decide what is inappropriate or service users will alert them to posts that they believe are inappropriate. These people will be picked by the site owners or managers.

Any dispute that arises will be investigated by Ofcom who will go on to make a formal ruling as to what must happen next.

I believe that the head of Ofcom is appointed by the Government of the day (happy to be corrected) and the Government of the day is ultimately decided upon by ourselves.

When you look at it holistically, it's all very circular and, in effect, we all oversee each other to ensure that appropriate behaviour is maintained.

I did post about the consultation period where people could make representation about any concerns or make any suggestions, but unfortunately this has now expired.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You forgot to include dismiss the claim in Ofcoms variety of powers. Or do you think nobody makes frivolous complaints just because they can or out of spite or just because they don't agree with a completely reasonable post? What are the penalties going to be for repeated time wasters who think this new rule will give them carte blanche to spend their days complaining?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Why on Earth would anyone do that? You have a very negative view of the world.

To my knowledge there won't be any penalties in the unlikely scenarios that you describe, not that I envisage that any will be needed.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The world and the internet is awash with the pettiest of people who will always complain to get back at a world they are mad at and because they think it is funny.You are the naivest of anyone I've met on the internet if you think everyone is straight forward and honest on the web.:rolleyes:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The best way to deal with these sort of people is to not give them any reason to complain by complying fully with the Act when it becomes law.

They then won't have any grounds to complain and their complaints will be dismissed by Ofcom.

The majority of posts from most people are non discriminatory, considered, kind, empathetic, polite and respectful, so won't be affected in any way.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Bad legislation is always legislation intended to plug a gap that isn't there. How do the offences you perceive in your own head Richard vary from offences under s.127 of the Communications Act 2003?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It must be nice in that pink fluffy world you live in. :erm:

However, out here in the real world, reality is very different.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

To my knowledge, existing legislation that has been used in the past will remain in place.

What the new Act aims to do is be much broader in what it covers, make it far easier for people to lodge a complaint and to try and quickly get things like scamming, child sex abuse etc off the internet.

There will be no cost to the complainant who makes a request or complaint and things that aren't illegal, that nevertheless cause distress/inconvenience, will be able to be dealt with.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You can't please all the people all the time. People will find anything to get upset about or will get upset for others. Where as in the past we would not pander to over sensitive people, we are now at a point where law is being used to force everyone to consider every sensitive snowflakes feeling.

It has a chilling effect. The internet thrived because it was open and without limits and people could freely express what they wanted. This freedom accelerated minority groups hidden away scared who now stand proudly. The very thing that allowed social progress is now going in reverse with extreme moderation of topics/alternative views limiting what people say and new laws will limit that further.

Imagine if the internet was around earlier when being gay was illegal. Talk about that kind of stuff would be moderated on all social platform to the point it would be hidden. So who decides at any particular time what can and cant be said?

Apart from reactive policing to emergencies, the police spend most of their time dealing with social media stuff where people say stuff they don't really mean but they love it because of the digital trail and it gives them good looking results. So sod anyone who has a car and bike stolen as they put minimal effort in to that and just tell you to deal with an insurance company. All because people are too sensitive to what others say online.

There are far worst things people can do online to upset you than call someone a name so people need to stop going crying over every little thing and forcing new laws.

It will cause a chilling effect because the majority of sites will over-moderate because they are scared of fines and court action. Look at how DMCA takedowns have destroyed artists and creators because platforms will take down work instantly no matter who sends a notice and its so hard to get it reversed. They do this because the DMCA law scares them. The same will happen on chat forums.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Why on earth wouldn't they? I have a realistic view if the world, sadly many people are dishonest and some of them think if there's something in it for them then they'll chance their hand and give it a go. There are people (I'm sure most of us could name at least one) who try and make a career out of complaining with a view to making some sort of financial gain when most people wouldn't bother because they feel the complaint is frivolous or a distortion of the truth or at worst an outright lie. I wonder how many complaints these people make that gets them nowhere, I suppose we'll never know.

Any law needs to also allow websites to stand up to non-genuine complainants and at the very least allow some mechanism for them to easily recover their costs.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

:tu:

---------- Post added at 08:46 ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 ----------

:tu:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You should have expressed your concerns when you had the chance, it's too late now that it's going through Parliament.

Maggy- If your daughter came to you upset because she'd been subject to inappropriate comments, simply for being a woman or a lesbian, would you expect her to just ignore it and tell her that others have the right to say what they want?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

She's a grown woman and can deal with her affairs without my permission or assistance.She's more than capable in taking care of herself.I and my husband taught her well and are confident that she knows how to deal with such issues.She's been doing so for sometime.She has a tongue in her head and has frequently had to deal with the issue of being in a same sex marriage.Nice try in using my family to try and shore up your pathetic attempt to justify your position.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Nevertheless, do you think that those who have unjustifiably given her hassle had the right to do it because they have a right to freedom of speech (assuming that they genuinely held these views and were not simply doing it out of malice)?

The latest survey says that 20% of people still think that same sex relationships are wrong. Should they mind their own business and keep their views to themselves, or should they be allowed to express them, often using insulting words like 'unnatural', 'perverted', 'sick' etc.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well, under the Online Safety Bill, that post of yours would be banned, because you've just used the words 'unnatural', 'perverted' and 'sick' to describe same sex relationships.

Does this help you to understand the worrying nature of this Bill? You wouldn't be able to escape the censors by writing 'Some may say' or suchlike to get away with insults.

People will be scared to say anything in case some snowflake deliberately misinterprets it and free speech will be dead. This proposed legislation is OTT and is definitely a step too far and it should be killed at birth. Oh, dear - hope that didn't upset anyone....:erm:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Doesn't happen often but I agree with Old Boy :shocked:.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

People are entitled to have their own views and share it in various spaces. If its used directly to actually harass someone or a group, we already have laws against that.

The benefit of not censoring such comments allows them to be challenged and debated. The alternative is these people create hidden communities where they end up spending more time talking and thinking about these things and become more extreme in that bubble.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Yes.

Ever heard of "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ?

You seem to think it should be "Say what we think you should say/believe [only], or else ....".

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Being able to debate matters and, hopefully, bring people round to an alternative point of view is something that I fully support. Fortunately, I don't believe that the Act will impact this.

Your excellent point was actually made during the consultation period, so should have been taken into account by the politicians.

If it makes people think twice before posting something (or how they phrase it), or it leads to site managers taking their responsibilities more seriously, that can only be a good thing that will drive up the the quality of posts, adverts, interaction overall and lead to, often vulnerable, people being able to enjoy the internet without being subject to various forms of abuse.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Absolutely not, they have the same right to those views as all the others, who have different views.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It involves more than that Richard. As it stands the compliance obligations (if this blog post by a regulartory professional is anything to go by) will be a nightmare.

Perhaps you should have a read of it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Thank you, that was an interesting read.

It's a real shame that the voluntary scheme didn't work. There have been many instances of people reporting material to Facebook who have simply been ignored!

I had cause to complain to them last Friday and the issue was resolved today, so I think that they are gearing themselves up for the Act already.

Ofcom didn't say which sites had been preparing their staff in readiness, but I think that there's a good chance that facebook is one of them.

I, like the last poster Russ, learned something new too. This is the first that i've heard about any regulatory fees, it appears that Ofcom are to cover their costs of regulation from the websites themselves, in the same way that TV & radio channels have to pay annual fees.

This will be pretty irrelevant to the likes of facebook, Twitter etc, but may impact small commercial sites or non profit making ventures run by volunteers.

Hopefully, there will be a sliding scale based on revenue or even an exemption of fees where this would be appropriate.

There was a mention of sites being able to evade the Act by relocating abroad or using VPN's. Whilst I don't understand the technicalities around their solution, it looks like they have amended the bill to cover this too.

If people were to be able to easily evade the scope of the Act, it would make a mockery out of it and be a complete waste of time.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

"Crackdown on internet abuse may be scrapped if new prime minister prioritises other laws"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ises-laws.html

There's still some hope yet then...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I had wondered if the shenanigans in Parliament would affect this bill.

It has cross party support, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That article shows exactly what the problem with it is

It might have started life with this objective, but its gone way, way, way, beyond it.

Again, this may have been a desire at one point, but its exceeded it massively, threatening ALL sites.

I'm sure it had good intentions when it was proposed, but its gone completely out of control.

What does "keep users safe" even mean ?
As a statement thats totally obscure and meaningless.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Actually the link I gave Richard earlier really shows how bad it would/could be for small to medium sites.

Here it is again.

https://webdevlaw.uk/2022/07/11/your...e-safety-bill/

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Perhaps Ofcom could charge the large/rich sites higher fees in order that the small poorer sites can have cheap fees or be exempt.

In addition this could pay for training for moderators etc for sites that can't afford it as it would be essential that they get this right with the possible penalties for these individuals being huge fines or even imprisonment.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Excellent. There has been far to much function creep from the original reason for it. It will allow anyone with a grudge against a forum to flood them with complaints for frivolous reasons. As far as i see it the death of free speech is coming if this bill is not stopped.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You, like everyone else, had the chance to make your concerns known during the consultation period that I alerted the thread to.

---------- Post added at 21:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------

Online trolling was so bad that it nearly made singer quit music:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...t-62176316.amp

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Its called life, and the pressures of fame - you do realise both existed before the internet, right ?
Its also called learning to ignore comments you dont like, or just stay off social media if you cant take the negative.

You seem to think the world will somehow live in perfect harmony, it wont, ever.
You also (again) fail to grasp that this piece of garbage covers a lot, lot more than just facebook or twitter.

Ever heard of "a hammer to crack a nut" - this is more like a pile driver.
Its a bit like suggesting no one in a school should be allowed to speak to each other, because one pupil might say something another pupil might not like.

Everytime you post another random story your nieve view of reality pokes out a little bit more.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The internet has made bullying easier to do and made it more prevalent.

My past posts have made it clear that this legislation involves more than just Twitter & facebook.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I don't get bullied on face book twitter or any other social media site because i'm not signed up to any of them ,you should try it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It's not internet trolls we need to worry about.It's the totally antisocial thugs that inhabit the real world and physically make our lives a misery in real time. There's legislation to deal with them but not the resources.If we start insisting that the police,courts deal with the internet bullies then where does the financial resources get redirected from? Yes the issues in the real world.

How about just ignoring the online idiots?They can't really affect you UNLESS you allow them to do so.Report stupid online abuse by all means but don't waste your efforts and resources on them.At the end of the day the only damage they can inflict is that which you allow them to do so.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

True but when it comes to social media, kids are particularly vulnerable and online bullying has ended in suicides.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Apparently, it was dropped from next week's schedule to make space for the government to introduce a no confidence in itself bill. So I stand corrected, this government does do something right now and again!

---------- Post added at 11:08 ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 ----------

Surely there's better ways to protect children than this draft legislation. Better parenting would be a good start - being aware of what your children are doing in their rooms for all those hours might be an idea.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Real life bullying is much more worrying because it's literally in your face.Online bullying can at least be switched off and ignored.For the real life bullied it's literally in your face ALL the time.Trust me as a teacher I understand this.Mind it would help if parents got REALLY,really nosy about their child's online life.Both the bullied and the bully's families should be responsible online or off.Sadly too many parents don't want to invade their child's privacy.Nuts to that.Take responsibility as a parent and be nosy.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The words babies and bathwater spring to mind.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I've never been bullied on those sites either. People should be able to use them though if they want to, without fear of bullying.

For young people these days, not joining whichever is the most 'in' social media site would lead to social exclusion & isolation. It's where they arrange parties, meet ups etc.

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:43 ----------

These days, children have to face both online and real life bullying. In the past they could at least have some respite in the evenings, weekends and school holidays, but now they can be targeted 24/7.

I strongly agree that parents should be regularly checking their children's devices, not only for online bullying, but for other reasons such as being scammed, preyed upon by paedophiles or hebophiles etc.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Nonsense, every electronic device has an off switch. Every site account has a logout function.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Indeed, just switch it off