Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The GuessNP really are getting beyond parody now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ian-warns.html

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

A fantastic PA photograph taken in Stirling this weekend, illustrating the presence of both Armed Forces Day and Bannockburn Live:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2014/06/1.jpg

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:spin:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

More bullying!! :rolleyes: I imagine Bravemouth will be furious that such news was released before the vote...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28085418

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Next YouGov poll: 61% No. 39% Yes.

Using a statistical analysis I developed myself I can confirm that together that makes up 100%. You're welcome.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

... as reported in this morning's Times. Not available on the YouGov site yet.

Including 'don't knows' it's N54, Y35, DK9. Which looks pretty appalling for the Yessers, as constitutional referendums of this kind invariably see most of the Don't Knows opting for the status quo when it comes to the crunch.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Can't be true. The yes campaign has 'momentum' according to his excellency Salmond.

I suppose going backwards quickly is momentum as well :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1404299531

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...stay-1-3463628

:D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Rubbish at acting, rubbish at politcs. How dare people from other countries stick their noses in? Come on the YES vote.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You like hopeless causes then? :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

TNS/Sunday Times poll puts Yes on 41, No on 59, excluding DKs.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Oh, the irony.... :D

Do you live in, or come from, Scotland? ;)

btw, Mike Myers dad was Scottish, which may be why he feels he can have an opinion....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Never lived there, but have Scottish blood in me. Very diluted, but it is there.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

In which case you have lesser case to comment on Scottish affairs than Mr Myers surely.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Hey so you could be related to Andy Murray if you're very, very lucky. :D

Anyway, perhaps inevitably, it's all getting a bit heated in some quarters with some nut job claiming he's from the Scottish national liberation army :rolleyes: threatening to firebomb the better together office.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...er-man-3806539

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Nooooo, it was an MI5 false flag op!!!!! :erm:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Can't of been. They would have all too busy trying not to spill their vodka martini a whilst being nasty to JK Rowling on twitter to come up with a false flag op like this.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Or maybe it was an agent of Och Aye 5, sent by Eck to perpetrate an act of nationalist stupidity which his equally stupid cybernats could then blame on nefarious unionists.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Can they not just have the vote now so everything can get back to normal. After the yes vote will there be a raft of resignations by the idiots that wasted all the money spent on this. :rolleyes:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Barring photos emerging of David Cameron going back in time and killing William Wallace there won't be a Yes vote. ;)

But unless the end result is a narrow victory for the No camp you'd expect the SNP to implode as there reason for being will have vanished.

Funnily enough Eck has already said he will stay on as FM regardless.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Hopefully the SNP aren't sitting on a video of Cameron and Osborne urinating on the Saltire whilst drinking champagne and laughing at Scottish people.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I am pretty sure it is going to be a no vote but one must cover all sides of the debate, Btw where's Jimmy when you need some cheering up :D :LOL:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

How did you find out about that?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Plus he speaks the language better than some of the natives

---------- Post added at 06:50 ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 ----------

How did you get those details, there classified and won't be released until after no thanks has won, be to late then

---------- Post added at 06:54 ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 ----------

You mean Jimi, he spells it like a local, even of he isn't one.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:LOL:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

All English people do it, it's a right of passage, we just hope no one finds out.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I sincerely hope the vote result is very strong, or the daft buggers will try again in a few years, and it will go on and on and on and on...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The biggest problem is complacency. The guessers will vote almost guaranteed, if the polls continue to show a healthy lead for No then some in the better together camp might decide to stay at home.

A healthy turnout and resounding kicking for the SNP at the ballot boxes is what's required.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Senior SNP figures "intimidating" Scottish businesses not to speak out against independence.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...sses-1-3467954

The full story will be on Dispatches tonight, C4 at 8pm.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Does anyone seriously believe that hasn't been happening for some time?...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

There are a few Yessers in the comments below that article that think it's all an establishment wheeze to discredit the Dear Leader.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Members of the Bravemouth clan? :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1404731653 http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1404731653 http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1404731653

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Closely followed at 9pm by a programme on BBC2 called 'Scotland For Richer or Poorer'. This programme will look at whether Scotland will be richer or poorer as an Independent nation.

This programme will be repeated at 11:20pm the day after on Tuuesday 8 July 2014.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Contrary to Nat whingeing, the BBC is being so achingly impartial that Peston's documentary is inevitably going to be dull, dull, dull.

I am planning to catch Dispatches shortly on C4+1 however. It should be quite entertaining.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Impartial clearly doesn't cut the mustard with Bravemouth's cronies. It's just another form of bullying...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Scottish Nats hate the BBC. They tried to make a big deal out of a protest at BBC Scotland which didn't actually amount to much. Some of them even thought the constant use of 'British' is show titled was the BBC trying to influence the vote.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The outcome was that, with everything considered, in twenty years time Scotland will have a similar economy to the UK at best if it is a yes vote.

At worst, Scottish people will be slightly worse off, but not by much.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Did they cover what happens when the oil runs out?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Alex Salmond "Personally called the chairman of the SFE to discourage him from publishing a critical report on independence".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ce-report.html

It's really hitting the Nat fan now.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Sounds like bullying to me :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If Bravemouth gets his way I can see there being an awful lot of very upset Scots when the inevitable happens and the truth about what's gone on starts to be revealed. Of course it'll be too late to do anything about it then, just like it was when the truth about Bliar's WMD's finally came out.

What the SNP says about 'welcoming all views on independence' and how it actually reacts to those views are 2 very different things.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

So, let me get this straight. The SNP welcomes all views on independence as long as you agree that it is a good idea. If you express ideas to the contrary, you are wrong, and if you provide evidence to back up your conclusion that independence is in some way wrong, you are bullying them?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b049bj5f

Question Time will be covering the subject this week at 10:35pm this evening on BBC1, with a repeat on BBC2 at 1:50 on Saturday morning.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

And no politicians on the panel, by the looks of it. Might make a nice change.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

an english friend once declared that and i quote "the scots are a bit like piles which are sore when they come down but are alright whence they return"

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It'll feature "campaigners for both sides from a wide variety of occupations".

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Oops. Remember how Alex 'I'm right, you're wrong' Salmond has been banging on about an independent Scotland immediately giving up a chunk of its independence by walking into the EU on its terms? It seems like the new EU boss has other ideas.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/07/24.jpg

It's even funnier as a week ago they were hailing him as the greatest thing ever as he would be more receptive to iScotland and it's EU plans. Awkward. :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

No EU, possibly no Pound.... doesn't sound like something I would vote for if I were a Scot....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

In two months or so we will be asked to make a decision with huge consequences and the lack of information has been scandalous.

We don't know:

• What currency we will use and what conditions will be attached to using it
• Our position in the EU and what conditions will be attached
• How much it will cost to set up an independent Scottish inland revenue, welfare system etc. etc.
• How all the promises are going to be paid for if, as expected by pretty much everyone, oil revenues drop off

That's just off the top of my head. To simply brush off legitimate concerns raised as bullying or scaremongering is an appalling way to run such an important campaign.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They are "unknowns" Derek. All of these things are set to be discussed after the referendum outcome - that was the agreement as was signed up to.

I'm not defending the nats but given this constant "you can't", "you won't" attitude from the pro union parties and others I can understand why some people on one side see it as bullying.

Post referendum (whatever the outcome) negotiation was always the way these things were to be and will be decided.

To state otherwise in advance of the outcome is exactly as you have described it. "Scaremongering" and in the eyes of some an attempt at "bullying".

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Except they are being portrayed as a given by the yes camp who are point blank refusing to acknowledge their plans and assurances might not come to fruition.

For normal elections we expect promises to be broken but there is no going back after a yes vote. To find in 5-10 years that a huge mistake was based on lies and half truths would be pointless as nothing could be done at that point.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Derek, given that you understand the premise of post result negotiation and the potential for positive and negative outcomes for both parties I fail to see how you arrive at the conclusion you have arrived at. My understanding, and I could well be wrong, is that the white paper was a vision statement and not a list of promises or a manifesto.

This is not a "normal election" it's a referendum. It is a referendum predicated on the understanding that "everything" is up for negotiation once the result, whatever that might be, has been determined.

On that basis you could equally well say that the "No thanks" camp are lying when they say that X or Y won't happen because they too are wedded to the negotiations and are subject to the outworkings of same.

"Fear", "trepidation", "bullying", "lies" or "half truths" - call it what you like.

It's a double edged sword.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I see the referendum as an even more serious event than a "normal election". You get the opportunity to vote every 4-5 years with elections, and are given the right to change your mind about the way your previous selection has, or has not, performed. To ask the electorate to decide yes or no on the basis that you might, or might not, negotiate a positive outcome on the major elements that the country runs on, seems like a very irresponsible way to treat any voter, as this event will probably be the most important one the eligible voters will ever vote on.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The yes camp are pretty much outright denying any possibility of an outcome of negotiations that's not outrageously generous to iScotland, not just in the white paper but in every leaflet and sound bite.

If they at least pretended they have a plan B for currency union, EU membership, NATO membership, energy and everything else I wouldn't be as bothered but they don't and their debates about it degenerate into a fingers in the ears saying 'la la la. Not listening to you' which for such an important vote is nothing short of disgraceful.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That's because they are not the "No thanks" camp.

They don't need to "pretend" anything - it's all up for negotiation. You are singularly refusing to acknowledge that as being a fact. If they were to "pretend" anything then you'd be accusing them of pretending. Isn't that how it works?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's not unreasonable for the those actually voting in the referendum to have some of these questions properly answered though. Before they vote, so they can make an informed decision.

It's not like the SNP have only just thought about it. Surely they have been planning for this for decades?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Negotiations can go either way. Voters should know the various possible outcomes, so they can make an "informed" choice. Otherwise it is quite possible that the situation after any negotiations is not one that people would have voted for had they known about it.

It seems absolutely crazy that after all these decades of talk on the matter, that nobody really knows what is going to happen with a yes vote. There has been plenty of time to thrash out the issues.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I agree.

However the way the referendum has been, rather cleverly, set up means that there are no "certainties". Ergo neither side (no matter the outcome) is tied to the current status quo.

They are where they are.

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 ----------

As above.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Its insanity

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It'll all be OK, Bravemouth has his fingers and toes crossed... :D

Of course if it turns out the Scots vote yes and subsequently find they've been sold a tartan pup, I'd like to know what "Plan B" is?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

*Blame the English.....

*note no smiley....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yup I imagine many will but at the end of the day their bargaining power at that point will be pretty poor and they'll be the ones having to pick up the pieces not us.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Just watched this, as I taped it from last night.

I couldn't believe the naivety of some of the people. They seem to think they will all be living in some kind of socialist utopia in the event of a YES vote.

Some of them really have swallowed the bull.

An independent Scotland will be a socially just place, away from the morally corrupt English bankers.

they seem to think that there will be no super rich in a independent Scotland, and the wealth will be magically spread to all.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Its scary but some of the leaflets in the less well off areas are basically offers of bribes. They've gone down the route of Milliband with picking wee slogans that get repeated at every opportunity like 'fairer society' without actually telling anyone what that means or how they are going to achieve it.

If they do get the result they want and the socialist utopia experiment gets going then get ready for a huge brain drain away from Scotland.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They've forgotten the major role Scottish banks played in the chaos already then...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

In the event of a yes vote, do we know if people currently living in Scotland that are not deemed to be 'Scottish' will be required to leave?

Will Scottish people living outside Scotland have the automatic right to move into Scotland whenever they please?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Don't be daft.

One would assume so, as would non-Scottish Europeans, if Scotland wishes to be part of the EU.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

NoWhy should we?

We could have done this at any time - I'm not sure a bunch of rabble-rousing economic illiterates (IMHO) shouting 'FREEDOM!!!!' would drastically change my point of view...;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I should have said that my scenario assumes that Scotland is not part of the EU.

So if it is a yes vote and Scotland is not part of the EU, Scottish people living outside the country wouldn't be able to automatically return? I'm thinking of situations where people may wish to return eg to retire to their birthplace.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Not just Scottish banks, but English ones too, aka Northern Rock. Greed is universal.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

According to the SNP white paper, because I was born in Scotland, I will (in the event of partition) have Scottish Citizenship (as well as my current UK citizenship).

My assumption is that being a Scottish citizen (should my fellow Scots and the 10% of the population who are English vote for Separatism), I will have right of Domicile (should I wish to partake of it) in the land of my birth....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Did I say no English banks were involved? In was commenting on a remark about English bankers and pointing out the role Scottish banks (not to mention a Scottish Chancellor) played in the crash.

I think you'll find that the Govt. bailouts required by RBS and BOS dwarfed Northern Crock and all the others. The Scottish bank failures account for the majority of public funds which were poured into the backing system so whilst greed is universal the English really can't be blamed for everything.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I don't disagree with you apart from the emphasis on Scottish and by the way, I'm English. All those banks were British and their seeds of their destruction were sown long before they actually failed and that was because of greedy, ignorant banking bosses not doing the most basic checks which led to their demise.

If we just carp on about them being Scottish banks it plays right into Salmond's hands. And I'm no fan of Gordon (sell off all our gold at the cheapest prices) Brown either.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The emphasis falls where the bailouts fell so far as I'm concerned. Salmond likes to overlook these, amongst many other, inconvenient truths and if the Scots buy that carp best of luck to them. ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The problem that Northern Rock had was that they funded the money for the mortgages that they issued, by selling on existing mortgages to other financial companies. Then suddenly the bottom dropped out of the market for those resold mortgages. That meant that they had trouble funding new mortgages. The problem was a general lack of trust in the packages of mortgages being sold by anybody.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

....and the new mortgages were sold to people who couldn't afford them in the first place, so the bottom dropped out from both ends of the mortgage, so to speak. The house buyer couldn't afford the mortgage, so never should've have got it in the first place. And at the other end, an American pension fund manager is buying into a fund without realising its actually and ultimately a repackaged mortgage from Britain. Total mess.

But anyway, back to Scotland before this becomes a banking bashing thread, not that there's anything wrong with bashing bankers.:)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The banks would have been screwed in a Independent Scotland however much they like to pretend it wouldn't. All banks had money in other banks, as soon as Lehman fell then the rest followed. It wouldn't have mattered one bit where that bank was as became apparent when every country got hit by the crisis.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

But how much was Northern Rock responsible for that. If was problems with mortgages issued by others in other countries, that mainly caused their problems.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

As good as any poll

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-28279790

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Pretty much backs up all the mock referendums and public votes held in schools, universities and at tough mudder :erm: that have all said a no vote is the most likely outcome.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Strangely enough.

"The leaked document details a range of programs designed to collect and store public postings from Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and Google+ and to make automated postings on several of the social networks."

I'm not for a second suggesting it has happened in the Rowling situation but it is doable and can be done should it suit GCHQ and the Intelligence Services.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I don't doubt the technology, but reasoning behind the SNP claim is still rediculous.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

In your estimation, perhaps. However, given what's at stake many won't find it too much of a stretch.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Sooner this is over the better the longer it goes on the more dirty it's getting and the more the nats are stoking anti english sentiment making relations between england and scotland harder in the future. They may be using the term "westminster" a lot but it isn't taking much reading between the lines to see their real meaning and i'm getting a bit sick and tired of being the bad guy in something that to be honest i am past caring about go, stay it's all the same to me at this point.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I didn't see anything, but there again I was only half watching it whilst replying to emails.

If this is the case, a yes vote may economically benefit England as we we won't have to plough money into Scotland to replace the lost revenue, despite having reaped the benefits of the oil for many years.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I am NO person & my family all feel the same, Salmon cannot be trusted one bit,
Better the Devil, than the devil you don,t know. Be sensible Vote NO

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Has Salmond proved that it is not a huge risk for Scotland to vote Yes?

I don't think he has....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I see Herr Juncker's office has now clarified that he wasn't at any stage referencing Scotland.

"New European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker was not referring to Scotland when he said there would be no new members of the EU in the next five years, BBC Scotland has learned.

Opponents of Scottish independence had seized on his remarks to the European Parliament to back their campaign
.
They said it proved that, if Scotland were to vote to leave the UK, it would not get back into the EU before 2019.

But a spokeswoman confirmed that he was talking about countries outside the EU."

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

He was referring to comments he made today. Not the comments he made about Scotland not getting fast-track entry. The SNP are already spinning it to seem that way but they're two different issues.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

He has clarified that he wasn't referencing Scotland. That was my point.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes but he clarified he wasn't referencing Scotland in remarks he made yesterday, not the remarks you quoted.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I didn't quote any remarks he may or may not have made. The article snippet which Derek provided contains no quotes from Mr Juncker as far as I can see.

Either way Damien, he has clarified he was not referencing Scotland when he was talking about no new entrants over the next five years, a point relevant to both sets of "comments" I think you'll agree.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

No. You quoted a article about Junker indicating that Scotland would not have fast-track entry into the EU. The comments you posted in relation to that, about Junker was not 'at any stage referencing Scotland', was nothing to do with the article you had quoted. Junker was clarifying remarks he made yesterday, not about fast-track entry, but about a 5 year freeze on new members.

The position he took in the article that Derek posted has not changed recently. So all I did was highlight that they're two different sets of comments and scenarios. No one has actually talked about the '5-year freeze' because that was only spoken about yesterday.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Nothing has been clarified in regards to an independant Scotland's entry to the EU.

All he said was that Scotland was not part of the 5 countries Turkey, Bulgaria etc (i can't remember them all) currently seeking admission.

Scotland is a different case and will be treated separately if and when the time comes.

The positions expressed earlier by Junkers and Barroso have not changed.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Oh yes they have! Bravemouth says so... :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Juncker was not referencing Scotland because Scotland is not a candidate for admission to the EU. Yesterday's comments are neither for nor against the referendum issue, they are entirely besides it.

What still stands, however, are the comments of J.M. Barrosso, echoed and supported by Von Rumpoy and Juncker, that Scotland's accession would of itself be difficult if not impossible, and that you don't gain entry to the EU simply by sending a fax (or an email, or whatever it was). The point is, *if* Scotland votes yes, it is a hopeless fantasy to believe it could negotiate membership of the EU according to the process outlined by the SNP - a process with no precedent or basis in treaty.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Calm down ladies.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

?