Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Yes but take into consideration what happened.

As regards Chamberlain. He is best known for his foreign policy of appeasement, and in particular for his signing of the Munich Agreement on 30 September 1938, ceding the German-speaking Sudetenland region of Czechoslovakia to Nazi Germany led by Adolf Hitler. Following the German invasion of Poland on 1 September 1939, which marked the beginning of the Second World War, Chamberlain announced the declaration of war on Germany two days later and led the United Kingdom through the first eight months of the war until his resignation as prime minister on 10 May 1940. (the majority of which referred to as the "phoney war")

Winston Churchill was appointed First Lord of the Admiralty on 3 September 1939, the day that the United Kingdom declared war on Nazi Germany. He succeeded Neville Chamberlain as prime minister on 10 May 1940 and held the post until 26 July 1945.

VE day was 8 May 1945.

VJ day was 15 August 1945

So yes, you are correct in 3 Prime Ministers, one for 8 months, one for 5 Years and one for 2 months.

Now consider why 3 Prime Ministers.

First Chaimberain. An appeaser who accomplished nothing, did not stop the war and (it could be argued) gave Hitler the confidence to continue his expansion of his armed forces and go to war against Poland.

So why Chrchill, why him considering Chaimberlain and wanted Lord Palmestom as his successor.being the appeaser that he was Lord Palmestom refused as he knew Paliament would have objected so who was left?

That famous war mongeror Winston Churchill. Even King George wasn't happy in the beginning but that changed eventually.

Winston then lead the country with a coalition Governmentr until Vicctory in Europe was decclared. For some reason that was disbanded (I don't know by whom) and election was called even though our forces were still at war with the Japenese, our forgotten army and agree with them. I've met many over the years.

So, tell me who should Boris should be replaced by who would not be anRussian apologist or appeser? Both Germany (who should know bwtter) and France and indeed some in the US who think agereeing to Russian claims in the Donbas and other areas is the way for peace. It didn't work with Hitler and it won't work with Putin.

---------- Post added at 01:36 ---------- Previous post was at 00:56 ----------

So,as regards Ukraine where sholud we do now? IMHO suppliy them with whatever they need to actually drive Russia out of Ulraine.
Thet are crying out for long range artillery to go on the offensive and I have no doubt they can do it if the equipment was supplied.
I'll leave you with this brilliant analisys. (note she says the ISW has witheld info as well as other strategists).

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Pretty much anyone in the Tory Parliamentary Party? Johnson isn't Churchill. Unless Corbyn makes a surprise defection to the Tories, everyone is on the same page with Ukraine in Britain.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

You make good points... However, you're reasoning comes down to 'who is there that's better than him to replace him' If the Tory party don't have someone who is more competent than the liability that is Bors then that in itself, is a damning indictment as to the state of British politics.

To add balance, I don't believe that the Labour party are any better whatsoever at the moment.

Supplying Ukraine with 'whatever they need' is a dangerous move, I thought that we were only supplying weapons that were classed as defensive.

To shift towards supplying offensive weapons could lead to a further escalation which lead to a full NATO engagement.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Agreed. The UK's support for Ukraine is not dependent on Johnson. I'm not sure the situation in the US, France etc is relevant here.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I wasn't saying Boris is another Churchill. Far from it even though he made sure the UK was in the lead in Europe for support for Ukraine.

It is not long ago posts were made here about money from Russians to the Conservative Party and some MP's sort of saying it would give Russia influence over policy. Well Boris has shown that to be untrue.

Personally I don't think in normal times Boris should stay but as these are not normal times it is not a time for leadership change, nor would it be whoever was leader unless we had a Russian apologist in power. (there's plenty of those in the Labour party).

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I don't think it makes too much difference. The way our Government is set-up means it's not too dramatic for the Prime Minister to change and I can't see it having a big impact on Ukraine.

As I said Ben Wallace, the Defence Minister, has been the main guy when it comes to Ukraine to the point he has been working for years on arming them. Since there isn't much debate or contention in the U.K on our support for Ukraine I think it'll just tick on merrily in the background. Any additional funding required would be provided without a PM having to work to get it. You mention the Labour Party but even there Starmer has said he would kick anyone out of the PLP who tries to use this to blame NATO.

I think the cost of living crisis is a bigger argument as to why the Government can't have a leadership challenge. That's an issue that is more contentious and requires political direction.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I'm not sure there ever is a normal time. The only genuine Russian apologists in the UK I've heard are not in mainstream parties eg George Galloway.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Thatcher resigned during Operation Granby (Gulf War 1), when we actually had troops and aircraft in the Gulf.

https://www.forces.net/news/gulf-war...flict-30-years

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I think this wins the thread …

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Man facing breaches of Ministerial Code changes rules about people who breach Ministerial Code....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...droidApp_Other

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Wonder if retrospectively changing the rules will be as successful as the last time they tried?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Remind Redwood to send in his letter asking Johnson to quit too.

At this time, it is more important than ever for the West to show to the World what democracy and good government is all about.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Is beer korma resigning yet

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Hes he been issued with a FPN notice yet?