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jonbxx 03-01-2021 18:01
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36064924)
If I may, I'd like to re-ask a question that's lost in the backlog.

Does anyone know whether or not the vaccines will protect against any coronavirus, given that it is the spike mechanism being targeted?
Difficult question! Some parts of the spike will give a better immune response than others. But, some parts of the spike differ by more than other parts. As an example, this paper - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7166309/ compares the spike of SARS-COV-2 (COVID) and SARS-COV (SARS) Super techie paper but check out figure 1(a) which shows different parts of the spike and how similar they are to each other. It varies between being 100% identical and 51%.

We really want to raise antibodies against the receptor binding domain (RBD) as this will not only get the immune system to recognise and destroy the virus but also, as a bonus, stop the virus from binding and entering cells. The RBD is only 74% similar so there’s a chance the COVID vaccine might not protect against SARS.

One huge advantage of the new vaccine types such as the mRNA vaccines and the Oxford/AZ vaccine is that they are ‘platform’ vaccines where you can very easily drop in a new RNA or DNA sequence to create a new vaccine. We are talking a couple of days here plus efficacy testing.

papa smurf 03-01-2021 18:24
Re: Coronavirus
 
Leak from secret Wuhan lab most ‘credible’ theory behind Covid outbreak, claims US official
Matthew Pottinger told politicians from around the world that even China’s leaders now openly admit their previous claims that the virus originated in a Wuhan market are false

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-new...heory-23254784

pip08456 03-01-2021 18:38
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36064963)
Leak from secret Wuhan lab most ‘credible’ theory behind Covid outbreak, claims US official
Matthew Pottinger told politicians from around the world that even China’s leaders now openly admit their previous claims that the virus originated in a Wuhan market are false

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-new...heory-23254784
You mean Trump actually has a respected Deputy National Security Adviser???

Hugh 03-01-2021 18:55
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36064964)
You mean Trump actually has a respected Deputy National Security Adviser???
Same story was said in May, with "conclusive evidence" promised then...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...han-laboratory

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/u...rus-china.html

Carth 03-01-2021 18:56
Re: Coronavirus
 
Apparently American Intelligence are on the case . . .

Is that approaching Oxymoron staus?

:D:D

Sephiroth 03-01-2021 19:14
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36064962)
Difficult question! Some parts of the spike will give a better immune response than others. But, some parts of the spike differ by more than other parts. As an example, this paper - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7166309/ compares the spike of SARS-COV-2 (COVID) and SARS-COV (SARS) Super techie paper but check out figure 1(a) which shows different parts of the spike and how similar they are to each other. It varies between being 100% identical and 51%.

We really want to raise antibodies against the receptor binding domain (RBD) as this will not only get the immune system to recognise and destroy the virus but also, as a bonus, stop the virus from binding and entering cells. The RBD is only 74% similar so there’s a chance the COVID vaccine might not protect against SARS.

One huge advantage of the new vaccine types such as the mRNA vaccines and the Oxford/AZ vaccine is that they are ‘platform’ vaccines where you can very easily drop in a new RNA or DNA sequence to create a new vaccine. We are talking a couple of days here plus efficacy testing.
Excellent document. I found, as a layman, the following texts to be informative from my particular aspect:

Quote:
The overall percent protein sequence identity found by the alignment was 76% (Figure 1(a)). A breakdown of the functional domains of the S protein, based on the SARS-CoV S sequence, reveals that the S1
receptor-binding domain was less conserved (64% identity) than the S2 fusion domain (90% identity).
(page 3311 = 4/18)


Quote:
At present, SARS-CoV-2 is behaving in a distinct manner compared to SARS-CoV. We believe our findings are of special importance considering that the available data indicates ACE2 as a suitable cellular receptor for SARS-CoV-2 entry
(Page 3321 = 14/18)

Maybe an oversimplification - but this tells me that genuinely it is not known the degree to which the vaccines can deal with other coronaviruses and imo, it tends to the negative depending on the precise binding opportunities for any specific virus and the cells to which they prefer to bind.

pip08456 03-01-2021 19:41
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36064969)
Excellent document. I found, as a layman, the following texts to be informative from my particular aspect:

(page 3311 = 4/18)


(Page 3321 = 14/18)

Maybe an oversimplification - but this tells me that genuinely it is not known the degree to which the vaccines can deal with other coronaviruses and imo, it tends to the negative depending on the precise binding opportunities for any specific virus and the cells to which they prefer to bind.
An interesting article from Japan.

Quote:
“By becoming more transmissible to humans, virulence tends to become lower because it would do no good if it infects lots of people and kills them. A lot of viruses in general were powerful when they first came out, but as they gradually adapt to humans, they would generally boost their infectivity but lower their pathogenicity. Otherwise they would not be able to survive.”
snip
“It also suggests that vaccines are likely to remain effective because there are similar numbers of re-infections in each group — indicating that the variant is not evading the immune response. This and other modeling studies suggest that B.1.1.7 is around 50% more transmissible than previously circulating viruses.

“It is not resistant to drugs or medicine.”
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...ins-normality/

jonbxx 03-01-2021 20:54
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36064969)
Excellent document. I found, as a layman, the following texts to be informative from my particular aspect:

(page 3311 = 4/18)


(Page 3321 = 14/18)

Maybe an oversimplification - but this tells me that genuinely it is not known the degree to which the vaccines can deal with other coronaviruses and imo, it tends to the negative depending on the precise binding opportunities for any specific virus and the cells to which they prefer to bind.
It is a very good paper and probably published in too low a journal though the Journal of Molecular Biology is nothing to be sniffed at.

One of the big take homes is that the amino acid sequences are quite different in the important parts but they seem to have the same function. In relation to your question and conclusion, you are right that it is fairly unlikely that a COVID vaccine would protect against SARS at least.

One thing to look out for are areas that differ little (conserved). If a part of a protein is well conserved across multiple virus (or any other living thing) then it means that they are important and any changes to them will kill of the virus. I worked in a bacterial protein that was 89% similar to a human one. It was involved in DNA repair which is hugely important. If they are so important that they are conserved, then they are a drug target as resistance is tough to develop through mutations.

pip08456 03-01-2021 21:29
Re: Coronavirus
 
Kate McCann has been posting on Twitter a number of schools sending out emails this evening saying the school will not be opening tomorrow. Some even not for vulnerable or key workers children.

This is going to be a sh*tstorm tomorrow, gives parents no to very little time to make alt arrangements.

jfman 03-01-2021 22:04
Re: Coronavirus
 
Local people making local decisions tailored to their situation. A libertarian, small government supporter's wet dream.

1andrew1 03-01-2021 22:22
Re: Coronavirus
 
It's a mess. The NEU’s views are supported by the paper from Imperial College London which found the UK’s new Covid variant spread quickest among under-20s and the R-rate was unlikely to drop below one unless all schools were closed.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imp...eprint-VOC.pdf

jfman 03-01-2021 22:25
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36064983)
It's a mess. The NEU’s views are supported by the paper from Imperial College London which found the UK’s new Covid variant spread quickest among under-20s and the R-rate was unlikely to drop below one unless all schools were closed.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imp...eprint-VOC.pdf
Is this linked to the Independent Sage work?

Reading online that Westminster are just waiting it out a few more days before closing all the schools. I wonder how much notice they’ll give.

Paul 03-01-2021 22:40
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36064938)
BREAKING: Labour Leader Keir Starmer, calls on Prime Minister Boris Johnson, to enact another national lockdown within the next 24 hours because Covid-19 is out of control.
Except its not "out of control" nationally, the problems are regional.

---------- Post added at 22:40 ---------- Previous post was at 22:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36064916)
There is one funny thing about coronavirus.


Who would have thought that you could walk into a bank asking for money and not have the police hunting you down.
Ummm, I think someone forgot their mask .... :erm:

mrmistoffelees 03-01-2021 23:40
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36064993)
Except its not "out of control" nationally, the problems are regional.

---------- Post added at 22:40 ---------- Previous post was at 22:40 ----------



Ummm, I think someone forgot their mask .... :erm:
It is out of control, if you’re thinking ten - fourteen days ahead.

Considering in England all but one region is either currently tier 3 or 4 that doesn’t seem particularly a regional issue to me. (And apparently more regions being stepped up from 3 to 4 in the next 48/72 hours) it sounds more like a national problem......

Paul 04-01-2021 03:56
Re: Coronavirus
 
A national problem does not make it nationally "out of control".

The cases and rates around here are well below the "National Average".
Our hospitals might be busy, but they are certainly not overwhelmed by covid patients (there are less than back in November).

There is more to the UK than just London and the South East.


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