Cable Forum - UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Maybe it's only me, but I always thought both sides would rip up parts of any 'agreement' in order to stop the other side from having a perceived advantage.

In the history of the world, I doubt there's ever been a plan drawn up that remained unchanged from conception to completion.

Anyway, I much prefer the word Haggling instead of Negotiating :p:

Hugh	27-02-2020 14:26

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

That would be an incorrect assumption - Agreements/Treaties last for (an agreed) fixed term, or until superseded by another Agreement/Treaty.

If any country (not just the UK) decided that they could abrogate International Agreements when they wanted to, the Agreements/Treaties would be worthless, so why would any other country sign any Treaties or Agreements with that county?

Here is the UKG "Future Relationship" document - https://assets.publishing.service.go...ith_the_EU.pdf

A couple of points it makes are

Quote:

6. The parameters for that future relationship are set out in the UK / EU Political Declaration of 17 October. As that Declaration makes clear, a Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement (CFTA) should be at its core. This Agreement should be on the lines of the FTAs already agreed by the EU in recent years with Canada and with other friendly countries

Quote:

83. The Agreement should include provisions for governance arrangements that are appropriate to a relationship of sovereign equals, drawn from existing Free Trade Agreements, such as those the EU has with Japan and Canada

Each of those treaties took around 7 years, and they didn't have anywhere near the amount of Services to trade as the UK does - the UK is stating it has to be done by the end of the year.

Chris

27-02-2020 14:45

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Meanwhile, el gov has been extremely specific in Parliament today about how there will be no alignment, no continuing EU access to British fishing waters and if it doesn’t look like the outline of a deal is emerging by June, it is prepared to walk away and focus on preparing for WTO.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51650961

Sephiroth

27-02-2020 15:02

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

[COLOR="Navy"][/[QUOTE][/well done the Guvmin.

On Hugh’s point about Canada taking 7 years, the difference is that we start in perfect alignment. It’ll be the EU’s pig headedness that will put a spanner in the works.

QUOTE]COLOR]

jonbxx

27-02-2020 15:26

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Here's an interesting blog post by David Allen Green on the hazards of moving away from the non-binding commitments made in the Political Declaration - https://davidallengreen.com/2020/02/...l-declaration/

Hugh	27-02-2020 15:42

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

[QUOTE=Sephiroth;36025770][COLOR="Navy"][/

Quote:

[/well done the Guvmin.

On Hugh’s point about Canada taking 7 years, the difference is that we start in perfect alignment. It’ll be the EU’s pig headedness that will put a spanner in the works.

QUOTE]COLOR]

I bet you don't try that line with your wife - "we started off agreeing, I'm being reasonable and you're being pig-headed!"... :D

Julian

27-02-2020 15:53

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

[QUOTE=Hugh;36025773]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36025770)

[COLOR="Navy"][/I bet you don't try that line with your wife - "we started off agreeing, I'm being reasonable and you're being pig-headed!"... :D

I thought the name SWMBO was there for a reason..... ;)

nomadking

27-02-2020 16:04

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Agreeing to try and come to a further agreement, does not mean simply surrendering to whatever the EU says.
It's the EU trying to overturn these.

Quote:

It must also ensure the sovereignty of the United Kingdom and the protection of its internal market, while respecting the result of the 2016 referendum including with regard to the development of its independent trade policy and the ending of free movement of people between the Union and the United Kingdom.
...71. The Parties should cooperate bilaterally and internationally to ensure fishing at sustainable levels, promote resource conservation, and foster a clean, healthy and productive marine environment, noting that the United Kingdom will be an independent coastal state.
...
75. The Parties recognise the importance of global cooperation to address issues of shared economic, environmental and social interest. As such, while preserving their decision-making autonomy, the Parties should cooperate in international fora, such as the G7 and the G20, where it is in their mutual interest, including in the areas of:

Carth

27-02-2020 16:25

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Just a thought regarding the fishing stuff . .

Would it be better for the UK if the EU could catch their own?

or

Would it be better for the UK if we caught it all and SOLD it to the EU?

asking for a friend ;)

Sephiroth

27-02-2020 16:39

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

[QUOTE=Hugh;36025773]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36025770)

[COLOR="Navy"][/I bet you don't try that line with your wife - "we started off agreeing, I'm being reasonable and you're being pig-headed!"... :D

Irrelevant. But one way of dodging the obvious point.

papa smurf

27-02-2020 16:43

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36025777)

At the moment they catch 60% of the quota, the people of Europe are going to be desperate for fish once the quota is set to zero

OLD BOY

27-02-2020 19:51

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36025735)

I see that positions are hardening.

UK is saying that fishing rights are not part of the trade negotiations. The EU is adamant on the opposite.

UK is saying we will be sovereign and not subject to any EU rules. The EU is adamant that their rules/standards will be the reference point.

We talk about our "European friends"; they talk about our "British friends". Isn't it time that this patronising language changed - especially from our side?

Should we just call them bar stewards, then?

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36025735)

I see that positions are hardening.

UK is saying that fishing rights are not part of the trade negotiations. The EU is adamant on the opposite.

UK is saying we will be sovereign and not subject to any EU rules. The EU is adamant that their rules/standards will be the reference point.

We talk about our "European friends"; they talk about our "British friends". Isn't it time that this patronising language changed - especially from our side?

Once we leave the EU, all the fish in our territorial waters will be ours. Why is this so difficult for the EU to understand?

We are leaving, but it seems the EU cannot understand the concept of separation.

Chris

27-02-2020 20:08

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

The EU’s massive problem is that it has written a lot of rules that make businesses in the EU inefficient. They have got away with it until now because all the major economies in Europe have been shackled together and protectionism keeps the rest of the world at bay. They now face the prospect of one of the biggest economies in the world on its doorstep not being held back by those rules. The risk to the EU is great. Nevertheless if they think they can deal with it simply by trying to ensure we remain aligned to their rules they’re going to be disappointed. They may hate to admit it but our presence on their doorstep yet outside their laws will ensure we continue to exercise a subtle restraint on their zeal for regulating everything in sight.

Hugh	27-02-2020 20:15

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36025797)

Should we just call them bar stewards, then?

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------

Once we leave the EU, all the fish in our territorial waters will be ours. Why is this so difficult for the EU to understand?

We are leaving, but it seems the EU cannot understand the concept of separation.

From the Express

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...ssports-brexit

Quote:

A HUGE fuss is being made over the “betrayal” of Britain’s fishing industry with foreign boats allowed to continue harvesting our waters for 21 months after we leave the EU

But it turns out that foreign firms already own a big slice of British fishing rights and will continue to do so permanently. Why? Because British companies sold their quotas. Spanish firms own 88 per cent of Welsh fishing rights and most of the quota from the Bristol Channel to the Scottish border.

Dutch and Icelandic firms control most of our East Coast fishing. European seas are split into sectors and governments hand out quotas specifying how much of each type of fish can be caught. Unlike in other countries the Environment Department allows any or all of its quotas to be sold to foreign trawler firms.

“England and Wales have mismanaged their fishing quota and Brexit will do nothing to put it right,” says law lecturer Tom Appleby.

The fishing industry has largely gone the way of so much of British business, manufacturing and utilities that have been sold off to Chinese, American and other foreign investors with the approval of successive governments.

No use moaning about it now because the family silver has long gone in return for a quick but one-off profit.

nomadking

27-02-2020 20:51

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36025804)

From the Express

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...ssports-brexit

If that was the case, what are the EU getting so awkward about? After all, if it makes no difference to UK waters, why are they so ready to give away access to EU waters?

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