Cable Forum - UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

well if Labour hadn't single-handedly killed the UK car industry, we might have had something better by now.

---------- Post added at 09:04 ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 ----------

Mustang v8 5.0 convertible, made in the USA

Ford Ranger Wildtrack, made in the USA

Import duties from US;

22% for trucks (including pickups, when the cargo area is more than 50% of the length of the wheelbase)
10% for passenger cars (this includes pickup trucks, when the cargo area is less than 50% of the length of the wheelbase)

(of course we pay the same either directly or indirectly for all the BMW SUVs as they are made in the US)

Sephiroth

20-02-2020 09:44

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36025281)

Which Fords did you go for;

Fiesta - made in Germany
Focus - made in Germany
B-Max - made in Germany
C-Max - made in Germany
S-Max - made in Spain
Galaxy - made in Spain
Kuga - made in Spain
Ecosport - made in Romania

They should be gagging for a trade deal with us.

Hugh	20-02-2020 11:30

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36025287)

They should be gagging for a trade deal with us.

Yes, that has been said before*...

For your edification...

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...is/379/379.pdf (page 9)

Quote:

In the view of the German automotive industry, everything must be done to maintain the free movement of goods and services between Britain and the other EU countries in the future. But there is a clear priority: the cohesion and the integrity of the EU are both a foundation and precondition for reaching a reasonable understanding.

Around 56 per cent of UK vehicle exports go to Europe; only about 7 per cent of European vehicle exports come to the UK. In a no deal scenario, German manufacturers would still be able to export to the rest of the EU, tariff free; those in the UK would not.

Quote:

Whilst a “no deal” scenario would certainly be damaging to the automotive sector in many EU countries, especially Germany, the impact on the UK automotive sector would be far greater than that on each of the remaining EU Member States

(*wasn't true then, either... ;) )

jonbxx

20-02-2020 11:56

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Joking aside, as the UK is not really a primary manufacturing base (we build, not make) and the way the car industry across Europe works with components moving around all over the place before being assembled in to a car, there are some interesting side issues in whatever upcoming deal extremely relevant to the car industry...

As well as tariffs, rules of origin are a huge deal for that industry. Cumulation is a hell of a subject all of its' own...

Hugh	20-02-2020 12:49

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36025295)

Yup, that's mentioned on page 20 of the link I posted.

Quote:

Free trade deals and rules of origin

42. The priority on trade deals for the industry is the rolling over of existing EU trade deals so the UK can continue to enjoy their enhanced trading arrangements. The Government has announced its objective of establishing “continuity arrangements” for these agreements. This is not necessarily a straightforward matter, due to the rules of origin provisions in these and other trade deals. Typically, an EU FTA will require 60 per cent of the content of a product to be locally sourced to be included under the terms of the agreement. Were this provision to be simply rolled over in a UK-South Korea deal, UK manufactured vehicles would not contain sufficient UK content to qualify. At present their typical UK content for rules of origin purposes amounts to no more than 20–25 per cent of the vehicle. Unless the terms of existing FTAs are altered, the UK would not benefit from the tariff-free access that they provide. The Government will therefore need to renegotiate every existing EU FTA and reach agreement on a new threshold for rules of origin, or agree that, for the purposes of the agreement, EU content can count as UK and vice versa.

Pierre

20-02-2020 13:07

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36025285)

Import duties from US;

22% for trucks (including pickups, when the cargo area is more than 50% of the length of the wheelbase)
10% for passenger cars (this includes pickup trucks, when the cargo area is less than 50% of the length of the wheelbase)

(of course we pay the same either directly or indirectly for all the BMW SUVs as they are made in the US)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36025292)

Yes, that has been said before*...

For your edification...

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...is/379/379.pdf (page 9)

(*wasn't true then, either... ;) )

You can look at it other ways.

The UK is BMW's 4th biggest market

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-of-bmw-group/

The UK is Audi's 4th biggest market

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/br...les-worldwide/

The UK is the 4th Biggest Market for Mercedes Benz

https://www.statista.com/outlook/100...-globalRevenue

You see the pattern?

Regardless of export volumes back and forth. The UK is the 4th biggest market for German cars and slapping tarriffs on them would hurt them.

papa smurf

20-02-2020 13:28

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36025301)

The latter, 10% or not, the price was not prohibitive. The Mustang was only the same price as a mid-range BMW 3 series.

The pick up looks great and was only a couple of grand more expensive than the Mustang.

If tariffs were slapped on Audi's and BMW's they would start to look much less attractive.

---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------

You can look at it other ways.

The UK is BMW's 4th biggest market

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-of-bmw-group/

The UK is Audi's 4th biggest market

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/br...les-worldwide/

The UK is the 4th Biggest Market for Mercedes Benz

https://www.statista.com/outlook/100...-globalRevenue

You see the pattern?

Regardless of export volumes back and forth. The UK is the 4th biggest market for German cars and slapping tarriffs on them would hurt them.

That's a lot of drug dealers:(

Hugh	20-02-2020 13:59

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36025301)

The latter, 10% or not, the price was not prohibitive. The Mustang was only the same price as a mid-range BMW 3 series.

The pick up looks great and was only a couple of grand more expensive than the Mustang.

If tariffs were slapped on Audi's and BMW's they would start to look much less attractive.

---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------

You can look at it other ways.

The UK is BMW's 4th biggest market

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-of-bmw-group/

The UK is Audi's 4th biggest market

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/br...les-worldwide/

The UK is the 4th Biggest Market for Mercedes Benz

https://www.statista.com/outlook/100...-globalRevenue

You see the pattern?

Regardless of export volumes back and forth. The UK is the 4th biggest market for German cars and slapping tarriffs on them would hurt them.

And the EU is our biggest market - It accounted for 54.8% of UK-built vehicle exports.

What do you think will hurt more - losing your 4th biggest market (around 6-9% of your market), or losing your biggest market (losing around 55% of your market)?

Pierre

20-02-2020 15:31

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36025305)

It would hurt both, it’s not a question of who can hurt each other more.

As was the original argument, the CEO of BMW, VW, Audi & Mercedes most likely could not give a toss about U.K. imports into the EU. They are concerned with their sales only and their workers.

The German chancellor is not accountable to the EU, She/He is accountable to their voters and if they fail to get a deal and that adversely impacts the German motor industry they will know about it.

And that goes for all EU leaders and their respective economies, they can put on a united front but they also have to look after themselves.

It is in everyone’s interest to have good trading relationship, and a good relationship in general.

So there will be much brinkmanship in 2020, I’m sure an agreement will be sorted.

My own personal view though, is that access to U.K. fishing waters will be sacrificed on the alter of any future relationship.

Hugh	20-02-2020 16:52

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36025309)

Germany’s leading industry (and automotive) representatives disagree with you...

https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...t-over-brexit/

Quote:

German industrialists have reiterated that retaining the integrity of the single market is their goal. “Defending the single market, a key European project, must be the priority for the European Union,” Dieter Kempf, president of the German Federation of Industries lobby group which represents around 100,000 companies, told the Observer.

This echoes similar concerns from the German Employers Association and an earlier intervention from the country’s powerful automotive lobby which said the integrity of the EU must come first in talks over the Brexit settlement.

Carth

20-02-2020 18:33

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

(from above)

Quote:

“Defending the single market, a key European project, must be the priority for the European Union,”

the integrity of the EU must come first

Well they would say that wouldn't they :p: and to be honest, if they said anything different they'd be complete muppets.

I'm sure the 'gang of two' (Germany/France) will be wanting to push the hard line to save face . . wouldn't want the other (lower) member states getting ideas above their station eh ;)

Pierre

20-02-2020 18:41

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36025319)

Germany’s leading industry (and automotive) representatives disagree with you...

https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...t-over-brexit/

From an article 2 and a half years ago, before we’d left, before we even had a transition agreement.

An absolute age, in regards to this process.

The German automotive industry is facing tough headwinds, it would be foolish to make things worse.

https://www.cityam.com/decline-in-ge...n-its-economy/

Business is business.

Sephiroth

20-02-2020 19:45

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Looks like that perfidious Vardkar has at last been stiffed.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...F-il-Fine-Gael

Might help the negotiations.

papa smurf

20-02-2020 20:27

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36025341)

Looks like that perfidious Vardkar has at last been stiffed.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...F-il-Fine-Gael

Might help the negotiations.

don't worry the EU will order new votes untill it gets the result it wants.