Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

You want it to be true so much that, without any evidence to the contrary, you rubbish the police investigation and the Sue Gray report. Your hatred for Boris has clouded your judgement, Chris. That’s what’s sad.

---------- Post added at 23:42 ---------- Previous post was at 23:40 ----------

That’s because partygate has been shown to be a waste of time, Andrew.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I don't get why you still support Johnson, Old Boy. Fellow Conservatives Seph and Chris see how he's brought the Party into disrepute and he's been tanking with the electorate for a long time now.

What will it take for you to cease giving him support? Found guilty of misleading the House?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Now we've had the Sue report, it was always going to morph towards wait for the Standards Committee report and to be honest I'm surprised OB hasn't used it already. I also don't think we're at the end of the story yet, I'd not be surprised if there are plenty more photos out there.

They'll also try hard to kick any discontent towards the long grass tomorrow when the £400 per fuel bill is announced, hoping they can buy the public's forgiveness.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

“Hatred for Boris”.

Defending him at all costs has almost a cult like following without many members.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Wow, what a pathetic remark. Do better FFS

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I accept that this has divided opinion, and that the breaches of the Covid rules should not have happened. But it is the extent of BJ's involvement that is in question here. The police have found that he breached the rules once, in an event which was a very marginal breach of the law, if that, for which he received a fine. He was not fined for anything else.

Some of the other events that went on at no 10 were serious breaches, but BJ was only involved in a small number of these, and in a situation the police did not consider meriting a fine. Leaving presentations, with or without alcohol, were deemed to be legal, as they were clearly work events, but some of these went on to become social events and BJ was not present when that happened.

BJ says he was unaware of those events which were, or became parties, and indeed he wasn't even there when they occurred. The office of Prime Minister is an extremely busy one, and yet some people on this forum seem to think he had so much time on his hands that he should have been aware of everything that was going on in that building, despite the fact that it is a building that is both residential and office accommodation and is used by over 1,000 people. When he discovered what was going on, he took immediate steps to reform the staffing structure to ensure that such a situation did not recur.

As I have said repeatedly, most of the noise over this has been from people who dislike Boris Johnson and want him gone, some of them Conservatives. But those of us who support him staying in office want him to do so because on the issues that are still outstanding and are important to this country, BJ is considered the best person to deal with them, because he knows how to do it and how to make it happen.

That is why, in context, partygate is seen by many as an unwanted distraction and completely out of proportion with the scheme of things.

Many (not all) of those same people try to leap to Sir Kier Starmer's defence, despite the fact that his breach of the rules appears to be far greater than BJ's, because his event happened AFTER work, and not between work events. If that turns out to be true, he will be deserving of the fine that he gets.

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If there are more photos, they should have been forwarded to the police. In any case, the photos alone need to be put into context. I’m sure that if there was anything else of relevance, it would have emerged by now unless people are deliberately suppressing evidence. If more evidence was produced now, people would be rightly accused of wasting police time.

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The cult comprises the people who are part of the campaign to unseat BJ. That is what this is all about.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I think we can do better than dismissing anyone who questions Johnson’s honesty, integrity or capability as having “hatred” for him. The reality he just isn’t very good, and even worse for those on the other side of the fence from me he’s not very conservative.

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An entirely subjective analysis.

And on the other hand if/when he’s cleared it will be demonstrably the case that according evidence held Johnson broke the rules and Starmer did not.

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Do you genuinely believe that, OB? Nobody just wants a better PM? One who isn’t a liar? One who does have attention to detail to understand the agreements he backed? One that doesn’t abandon manifesto commitments when it’s politically expedient? One who won’t max out the country credit card to save his own skin?

People back him because of one policy delivered in a haphazard manner that makes them blind to his many obvious failings. It’s quite tragic really.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Boring. More utter bollocks. The problem is, you’re not adding anything new, you’re just rabbiting on, droning on about Sweet FA. Going on about cults, all the while, you’re in a stupid cult, aligned with the con jobs SNP, all in for Scottish independence. Yawn, yawn & more yawn. :zzz:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It’s not bollocks Mick. 20 years ago politics was just people who disagreed about the size/role and purpose of the state. What should we fund and what shouldn’t we.

Now it’s supposedly defined by personality cults based on populist leaders Johnson and Trump.

Scottish independence is the vehicle to escape it. I pity the little Englanders for whom there’s no prospect of escape. Only the erosion of the state and extraction of their wealth to offshore tax havens, while the Daily Mail blames Johnny Foreigner. It’s alright though Rishi will give you £400 back of your own money for the energy companies to take it off you.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I think Chris summarised the real issue our country faces and that is the erosion and re-basing of the moral authority that underwrites our Governance. Whether or not you support the Cult of Johnson and his populist agenda, the journey he is taking us all on is a dangerous one.

By redefining the rules of truth, integrity and accountability, we are being taken to a place where literally anything goes and anything is possible. You may watch his lips move but don't for one second assume that what his says means anything.

I saw this yesterday, sort of summed it up for me:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

The trust in Johnson is eroded and permanently damaged. The partying from No. 10, not just Johnson but his staff and civil servants, means the rules they placed on rest of us, they didn’t believe in.

I too will never forgive what Tories have done to Health care sector. I lived it and continue to do so, it’s bloody horrible and hard work on the front line.

I’m angry but it doesn’t mean, all is forgiven with Labour. I could be politically homeless in the longer term.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

The way I see it is, he was democratically elected. I know he's not a president but it was him and his ability to transcend across the regions that helped win the massive majority.

Since then, he's made a few mistakes, he's also pulled off some big wins.

But I do not think it is up to the media or the opposition to topple him, if he is to be removed he should be removed democratically by the people who put him there, if they so wish.

Now, if he is deposed by his own party, then that's a matter for them, but there doesn't seem to be a massive appetite for that either at the moment.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

What you say is totally correct. You are also right to point out that Johnson is just part of the problem, the culture of arrogance at the centre of Government is appalling.

Your point on how the NHS has been deliberately mis-managed is one that everyone should listen to. They rely on the NHS workers' good nature and sense of duty to their fellow citizens while they trash the place, fail to give essential pay rises and blame the NHS staff for their (Central Government) failings. Don't tell me for one minute that they are not setting up the NHS to fail.

Of course with their enablers in MSM, the right wing comics that pump out Pravda-esque misinformation, they will fool enough people enough of the time.

Fun times!

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Spot on. I am pretty sure all those thousands who have perished from Covid their relatives and friends will also think so to.