Re: Brexit
 

I have but you clearly have not.

It is the blind, Brexit at all costs attitude like yours that is making the country a laughing stock.

Re: Brexit
 

What do you do about goods coming in and out of Ireland (and the EU) if there is no border and we're not in a Customs Union?

Re: Brexit
 

I'm sorry they are fundamentally different and always will be.

Re: Brexit
 

There is no Brexit at all costs attitude.

There is just Brexit. There has always just been Brexit.

We’ve had, Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit, Jobs First Brexit, you name it. But sticking any prefix or suffix to the word to try and make it something that you can to shape to a meaning you can live with, is pointless.

As May said from the outset. Brexit is Brexit.

---------- Post added at 12:50 ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 ----------

That’s right, one is once in a generation, we just did it, our Kids can have the next one.

Re: Brexit
 

You have my point far better than I could have. Thank you ...

Oh yes, the generation that overwhelmingly do not want it.

As John Major says:

Re: Brexit
 

There is a large part of what again ?

How do you know this - asked all the country have you ?

It's utter rubbish.

You're a hypocrite accusing folk of deceit when you, is trying to engage in deceit yourself, by engaging in this fallacy, that by telling the rest of us that the country needs some kind of validation - no it does not, nor has it asked for it!

The country was asked once in 2016 and it responded, it decided to leave the EU, despite the LIES on both sides, yes both sides of the campaigns, it's all one sided rubbish with "some" of you Remainers, conveniently forgetting the lies told also from the Remain camp, they played the same rules of deceit, so don't come that rubbish about it being on just the leave side only, it was not!

The country was asked again, kind of, via the Snap Election in 2017, 80% of the electorate decided to go for Parties that committed to honouring the decision to leave the EU. Several parties went on the assertion that they would reverse brexit or hold a second vote on leaving the EU, these parties failed miserably to muster up the "will" to stay in the EU.

The decision does not need validating via a losers vote being requested by a minority and that is exactly what this is! :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

Actually, IIRC, Labour hadn't officially committed to either Brexit or Remain at the election, merely stating they required 6 conditions to be met to allow Brexit to go ahead. So, you actually had one party that stated it was behind brexit, and one that was not clear on whether it was or not (and is still really evading that question, although we all know they support Brexit). As for the other parties, IMO, our political system makes it difficult for smaller parties to prosper in general elections. That said, the Liberal Democrats have done well from time to time in previous elections.


And surely if *either* side lied, that should be enough to call the result of the referendum into question?

Re: Brexit
 

Quite the contrary, I am open to discussing pro-Brexit articles. Please can you share some authoritative articles and we can see what evidence and information they base their conclusions on.

About the democratic bit: your certainty is predicated on the assumption that your beliefs and wishes are correct and there is no possibility of you being wrong.

Well I am sorry to disappoint. History is littered with cases where democracies have been duped into making what, retrospectively, would now be considered the wrong choice. For example, only yesterday, Brazil elected a far right candidate who:

Jair Bolsonaro: Far-right candidate wins Brazil poll

Democratic ... yes, certainly. Desirable, certainly not.

Re: Brexit
 

he achieved 55.13% compared to 44.87% achieved by his opponent.
Democratic.... yes,certainly. Desirable 55.13% say it certainly is for them.

Re: Brexit
 

Labour had the tests yes, but first and foremost they said the referendum result must be honoured.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39665835

Nobody knows what their position is now, least of all them

---------- Post added at 16:46 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ----------

But the beauty of a Democracy is the freedom to make mistakes. Not that I’m saying Brexit is a mistake, only time will tell.

I’d rather live in a country that has the power to vote in, and out, far right candidates, than one that didn’t.

Re: Brexit
 

Brexit aside the Brazil result is quite worrying and it's a good thing about the UK that these people find it so hard to get anywhere.

Re: Brexit
 

Christ, Ian, you are describing the general poulation!

I hope you are perfect.

Re: Brexit
 

Far from it but at least I don't try and change the political and economic future of an entire country of 60+ million people without a plan!

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:34 ----------

On this we agree. Democracy is based on informed consent. Now we are close to being informed, we should consent.

Re: Brexit
 

How do you forge trade deals if you are in the Customs Union?

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:16 ----------

You seem to position yourself on the opposite side of every democratic vote.

That says a lot about your opinions, which seem to be against what the majority think. Not surprising really, looking at your posts.

---------- Post added at 18:24 ---------- Previous post was at 18:22 ----------

Once again, the choice is between the EU deal that we get and a hard Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

What majority is this? :dunce:

I have explained my reasoning about your "democratic vote" ..

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------

You forgot the Remain option :)