Cable Forum - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I have a question for the next time PhormUKPRteam come online.

I would like a list of all your clients with regards to OIX. Which websites are going to implement your OIX platform?

I ask because I wish to create a blacklist (similar to your anti-Phishing blacklists) for my firewall to make sure I never visit any of those web sites. Once this blacklist is installed there is no need for you to profile me through Deep Packet Inspection using Layer 7 network technologies as it would be impossible for me to visit the web sites you are profiling me for.

I expect if I published this blacklist on the Internet lots of people would use it in their own firewalls for the same reason. It will be interesting to see how many of your advertising partners using the OIX platform will stay once they realise they are losing a significant amount of traffic due to my blacklist (which within 24 hours would go viral thanks to Digg, Slashdot and similar sites).

Alexander Hanff

popper

05-04-2008 10:10

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

OMFG :shocked:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pi...il/084025.html

Information Commissioner Says Yes Indeedy
Igor Mozolevsky wrote:
> On 04/04/2008, Ian Batten <igb@batten.eu.org> wrote:
>> http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...ent_040408.pdf
>>> Much easier to divert data from one source to GCHQ!.. :-D

And we mustn't forget that the Home Office "view" was written by the head of the Covert Investigation Policy section ...

AlexanderHanff

05-04-2008 10:16

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Yeah I saw that yesterday.

Cobbydaler

05-04-2008 10:16

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34521358)

Break out the tin foil hats... :D

popper

05-04-2008 10:28

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

lol, yeah, but i guess it explains the 'seek a letter of comfort ' OC the Head Of Covert Investigation Policy would give them that comfort ....

i still want to know who that QC is though.

Portly_Giraffe

05-04-2008 11:03

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Thanks to everyone who contributed ideas for the "simple" website. I do intend to change its name to make it more acceptable to organisations such as the BBC, and will let you know once that's in place.

In the mean time, here are some specific changes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34521199)

if your intent is to inform and educate these people, its probably good to highlight the Deep packet inspection,at the top,and include this from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection …

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34521203)

Portly, you have a great idea, but the first line can't go into deep packet inspection. They are not techies and will turn off.

popper – I agree about the importance of emphasising deep packet inspection. However, I also agree with mark777 and roadrunner69 that expressed as such it is too technical for ordinary users. So I have reworded the intro substantially.

However, at the end of the attributions I have added a prominent reference to the Wikipedia article, along with Richard Clayton’s recent paper.

I have made all these changes live at http://www.whyphormisbad.org and would welcome any further comments.

lucevans

05-04-2008 11:21

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe (Post 34521380)

Sorry I'm a bit late back to the party, Portly-Giraffe, but I've also been doing some thinking...here's what I wrote:

What is Phorm?

Phorm is a new element of the internet that is being added by your ISP, using equipment and software supplied by a company called Phorm.

What Does it Do?

It’s function is to read every word of every website that you visit, analyse it, and create a constantly-updated profile on you, your interests and your online habits. Your ISP will then send this profile to Phorm, who will use it to select advertisements which will then be shown to you on any participating website that you visit. As a sweetener, they have also added a phishing detector that tells you if you are about to visit a known phishing website. This function is already built into Internet Explorer and Firefox.

Is it safe?

Phorm claim that their technology cannot be used to identify you personally, but many technology experts believe that is not necessarily the case, and could potentially be open to both abuse by the company and attacks by hackers.

Is it Legal?

Phorm claim that is complies with the UK data protection act because it does not keep personally identifiable information on you. However, many technical and legal experts in the UK believe that it breaches the Regulation of Investgatory Powers Act 2000 (“RIPA”) because it intercepts your communications without the explicit consent of both you and the website you are visiting.

Can I Avoid it?

The ISPs will allow you opt-out of receiving the targeted advertising, but in it’s current form, all but one ISP (Talk Talk) will still intercept all your web traffic even if you opt-out. The only difference being that they won’t send you the adverts afterwards.

What If I want Nothing to Do with it?

At the moment, if your ISP is BT, Virgin Media or Talk Talk, the only way you can be sure that your traffic will not be intercepted is to move to an ISP that has stated that it will not use Phorm technology.

Has It started Yet?

As of 5th April 2008, BT have run 2 secret trials of this system without informing the customers that were used as guinea pigs; one in 2006 and another in 2007. Legal action by individuals over these has not been ruled out. All three ISPs who have signed an agreement with Phorm have stated that the system has not started yet on their networks, but BT plans to start a trial in the next few weeks, this time asking those customers selected first.

Is any of it any use to you? I realise it's rather simplistic, but I was aiming for the same writing style as the FAQs on Phorm's Webwise site (or at least, the way they were written the last time I visited before blocking the entire domain!)

Portly_Giraffe

05-04-2008 11:51

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucevans (Post 34521386)

Sorry I'm a bit late back to the party, Portly-Giraffe, but I've also been doing some thinking...here's what I wrote: ..

A million thanks - that's excellent. I've included the lot and you can see it on the website at http://www.whyphormisbad.org

Everyone - keep the suggestions coming!

lucevans

05-04-2008 11:59

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34521354)

I doubt they'd tell you that! However, that doesn't mean that we can't figure it out for ourselves - I'm sure some cunning programmer could write a plug-in that detects al OIX ad-panes and adds the URL of the website to a centrally cached blacklist somewhere :) Once knowledge of that got out, no website would want to sell space to Phorm for fear of obscurity for ever more!
Or maybe a plug-in that blocks OIX-containing pages in real time? (I realise it wouldn't prevent the profiling, but if enough people used it, over time it would drive Phorm out of business as the advertisers realised what was happening)

Ravenheart

05-04-2008 12:01

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Hi Portly,

Really good site you have there, clear and informative to those net users who aren't as geeky as some of us might be.

and the last lucevans post is well written too :)

As far as potential alternatives for the name of the site (that the BBC might like) how about these:

Phorm Factor

InPhormationDesk (or inPhormationstation)

Keep up the great work folks :)

theciscokid

05-04-2008 12:04

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3x2 (Post 34521298)

I do. It's like being in a stockade and while you are loading up and firing away there's a bunch of fat lazy *******s behind you drinking whiskey, smoking dope, plucking out belly button fluff asking you "what's your deal-io dude? "

These same people find out what the "deal-io" is later when they want to buy a house and find that no-one will give them a mortgage or insurance because they used the term "cancer" too frequently in their profile. When they finally feel the pinch they find they are a protest group of one and nobody cares.

Lets get this straight, ultimately I want to target my "Ferrari" ads to people who are "in the market" and can afford one. The downside of this is system is that I also don't want to offer anything at all to people who search <insert illness/non commercial proposition here>. That's the reality of targeted marketing.

If the majority population of the UK don't care that they are being wire-tapped and their Government or "media" say it's OK then why shouldn't I buy shares in Phorm? As things are, I might well make enough money to get out of this *****ing country and leave our "fat lazy *******s behind you drinking whiskey, smoking dope and plucking out belly button fluff" to their own devices - what else do they deserve? Certainly not me up at this time of night trying to defend them.

Hi 3x2

My statement is fair to say a very broad sweeping one but sadly the fact is most internet users are lemmings with it's use.

If you recall from a previous message I also stated that "I don't get that feeling from this place" in reference to peeps on here being in the know and caring. Thats why we all post here right??

Just recently I repaired a home pc which had numerous problems with spyware/viruses and the guy just didn't know what to do. I know of a lot of friends, family and acquaintances who are or have been in the same boat.

I feel it's our own responsibility to find out. Buy books, magazines indeed search forums and you'll find a treasure trove of positive advice.

I know that i've learnt a heck of a lot from this forum and because I CARE I signed up too.

Anyway, rant over ;)

Awra best

Andy :)

I just checked out your website Portly. Very good layout and informative. I'll be sure to pass it on to people. Cheers

lucevans

05-04-2008 12:18

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

...And because it's the weekend, the three "illegal" articles about Phorm will now be up on the BBC Tech News site for a whole 48 hours (they don't appear to edit after 5pm on a Friday) :hyper:

---------- Post added at 12:18 ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe (Post 34521402)

A million thanks - that's excellent. I've included the lot and you can see it on the website at http://www.whyphormisbad.org

Everyone - keep the suggestions coming!

You're very welcome. I've sent the URL to all my family and friends. Keep up the good work!

manxminx

05-04-2008 12:29

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Hia Portly, excellent website. In your footer where you say "Write to your MP - Write to your MEP" you could make it a clickable link to http://www.writetothem.com

Your site could also benifit from a favicon.ico such as: [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] you can download the .ico from http://www.favicon.cc/?action=icon&file_id=7437

Ali.

Dai	05-04-2008 12:43

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Found an interesting article a few years old about search engines and privacy.
One point that struck me as relevant was this:

"Many users do not understand why leakage of information not containing any
personal data such as email addresses or real names is considered
a threat by privacy concerned users. However the tiny bits of information
which get dropped every now and then form a trail which can be used
to trace users, i.e. the user is not anonymous any more but pseudonymous.
Being pseudonymous means that it is not known who the user really is, but it
is known that it is her. The problem is that giving personal data such as
an email address or a name only one time will make all past and future
pseudonymous actions personal actions which can be linked to the user's real
identity."

http://www.tentacle.franken.de/paper...ch-privacy.txt

Just in case that might be any use to the more talented activists here.
:)

Florence

05-04-2008 13:02

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe (Post 34521402)

A million thanks - that's excellent. I've included the lot and you can see it on the website at http://www.whyphormisbad.org

Everyone - keep the suggestions coming!

Nice idea and I am going to add it to ISPr to help those who visit our forums to understand the phorm and how to avoid it..

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