Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Your prevarications and talking around the points raised remind me of some friends of mine who were in the CPGB in the mid-80s - you have been vehement in this thread about why people should be condemning (quite rightly) the injuring and killing of innocent children, but you haven’t said a word in the Ukraine thread about the same actions carried out by the Russians, and your definition of a "peaceful" solution in Ukraine is letting the Russians keep all the territory they’ve invaded in this conflict and in 2014, allowing them to rebuild their military capabilities and do the same thing again.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

My point in the other thread is that the “fight for every inch” position is not sustainable - something that it patently is not and more so now given one of America’s genuine allies will be dipping the same stockpiles (of weapons and money) that Zelensky needs. I’m more than happy to discuss that on that thread.

Two nation states at war is a palpably different scenario from what we see today. Regardless, I’ve been clear and consistent about civilian deaths and war crimes in all conflicts as unwelcome although arguably inevitable.

However what Israel are doing so brazenly is on a scale beyond what we have seen elsewhere.

Yet we are all dutifully expected to bow down and reiterate her right to defend herself every time the conflict is mentioned, when legitimate defence probably expired on Monday or Tuesday. Something that could reasonably be anticipated by anyone who parroted it last weekend and seen now by anyone who still parrots it.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Don't want to sound like some weird conspiracy theorist and perhaps the covid has clouded my judgement but this all seems very convenient for vlad the insaner, Israel will now stop their aid to Ukraine, dip into those already depleted US weapons stockpiles and divert attention away from Ukraine, seems so beneficial for him it's hard to see how he's not involved somewhere?

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

So you think it was OK for Hamas to go on the rampage and kill innocent civilians in the most barbaric way, including chopping the heads off children?

The Israeli attack on Gaza is in pursuit of protecting the security of Israel and is in self defence. The families in Gaza need to suck on that.

Israel has been continually provoked by Hamas. They cannot be allowed to get away with this forever, and at last they are getting their comeuppance.

---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

Er - by engaging in peace talks, which Hamas resolutely try to scupper every time they start.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Obviously debate is welcome.

But you’re a bit late to the party OB.

Myself and JFman are at odds on this issue, but if you had read through the thread ( which you obviously haven’t) he’s more than already answered his position on all those points.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

I don't think the population itself can engage in peace talks. Only the leaders of the territory, Hamas, can do that.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

And they don't live there

Re: Hamas and Israel
 

Hamas deserve everything they get.

Unfortunately, the way Israel are going about it atm, it seems innocent people are also getting killed.

There is a large difference between invading and deliberately killing families & children face to face v killing them [unintentionally ?] via poorly targeted bombing of supposedly military targets. However, at the end of they day, the result is the same, they are dead.

Atm, I'm giving them the benefit of believing its not intentional, and that they are not targetting civilians, but you can only believe in so many mistakes before you start to wonder.

Re: Hamas and Israel
 

That's what will end all this in the end I suspect, when American politicians and public stop giving them the benefit of the doubt and tell them to stop

Absolutely horrible whats going on :(

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Nothing pedantic here. Facts are that Palestinians get killed & injured on an ongoing basis. Just setting some context. They are not getting killed exclusively due to the current events.

---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

Are there really people who write this sort of rubbish? Nearly 50% of Gazans are children. Here is one of them (from 2021):

"It's not fair" - A 10-year-old Palestinian girl breaks down while talking to MEE

These children are not Hamas but in a few years time, they will be thanks to actions taken at the moment.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Your callous disregard for human life is despicable, OB.

I'm not entertaining the rest of your post or any other on this subject.

---------- Post added at 11:52 ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 ----------

There is an emerging thought online that the current delay - attributed to the weather (which is atrocious) officially I think - is America blinking given the public (everywhere) and diplomatic (outside of Europe) reaction around the world this weekend.

It won't change Israel's strategy but allows more time for evacuation and humanitarian efforts. There's also suggestions of Egypt erecting a fence 5km from the border presumably to contain refugees which would allow humanitarian efforts to be made safely on Egyptian soil.

This is going to play out atrociously for American foreign policy interests worldwide but they could at least try to mitigate slightly.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

The ones since last weekend, and the sheer size of numbers, are though.

Re: Hamas and Israel
 

Seems Farage is lying again. He claimed:

Met Police had to post this in reply to counter this disinformation:

Re: Hamas and Israel