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-   -   Reform UK's chronicles (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33713145)

Hugh 20-05-2026 17:13
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36215858)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingbat

Or perhaps he borrowed the money from his girlfriend? The ex-waitress who paid cash for the house in Clacton?
With girl friends like that, I can see why Farage is constantly smiling!.
First wife - Irish
2nd wife - German
Current partner - French

Immigrants - doing the jobs Brits don’t want to… ;)

papa smurf 20-05-2026 17:27
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36215865)
First wife - Irish
2nd wife - German
Current partner - French

Immigrants - doing the jobs Brits don’t want to… ;)
yea what woman wants to marry a multi millionaire :Sprint:

Hugh 20-05-2026 18:31
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36215865)
First wife - Irish
2nd wife - German
Current partner - French

Immigrants - doing the jobs Brits don’t want to… ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36215866)
yea what woman wants to marry a multi millionaire :Sprint:
I know you and facts exist in separate planes of the multiverse, but when his previous partners married him he wasn’t a multi-millionaire…

In fact, he was so poor in 2019 (two years after he got together with his current partner) Arron Banks had to support him (he didn’t declare this because it was a "private matter" (mmmm, I think we’ve heard that recently)).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...rrer=deep-link

Quote:
Nigel Farage received £450,000 from the founder of pro-Brexit group Leave.EU in the year after the Brexit referendum.

Items paid for by Arron Banks included Mr Farage's London home, his car and trips to the US to meet Donald Trump.

A spokesman for Mr Banks confirmed the amount and what it had been used for, saying it was an "honour to help".

Asked about the funding following an investigation by Channel 4 News, external, Mr Farage - who now leads the Brexit party - said it was a private matter.

Paul 20-05-2026 23:35
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Dont forget his payments to OB to keep defending him ;)

1andrew1 21-05-2026 07:11
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36215849)
The Remoaners play the man, not the issue. When they do try addressing the issue, they talk vaguely about our largest trading partner, but they can't put justifiable numbers to the claimed benefits of rejoining. Poor Brexit today is the result o failure in government policies; not Brexit per se.

Farage helped get us away from the Brussels yoke and governments screwed it up.
You seem to want the UK to have the lower governance standards of Trump's America where loyalty to the cause gives you immunity from prosecution. Fortunately, we still do things a bit better here.

Quite why you can't defend Farage's stories and instead go off on some Brexit rant does not help your cause.

Sephiroth 21-05-2026 07:28
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36215885)
You seem to want the UK to have the lower governance standards of Trump's America where loyalty to the cause gives you immunity from prosecution. Fortunately, we still do things a bit better here.

Quite why you can't defend Farage's stories and instead go off on some Brexit rant does not help your cause.
Where the heck do you get that from? Utterly preposterous.

My point on "playing the man" is that nobody among the Remainers here on the Forum has provided quantitative information on the economic benefits of rejoining the EU.

This country needs a government that supports and induces economic growth. The same sort of government as we've had for the past few years won't make a success of rejoining the EU.

Also, seen from today, a Farage government isn't going to cut it either. We've some way to go before thismess gets sorted.

But Farage is a great man. Kemi is a great woman. Labour is lunatic.

1andrew1 21-05-2026 09:58
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36215886)
Where the heck do you get that from? Utterly preposterous.
Not at all. Entirely evidence-based, you don't want Farage subject to UK rules because you like his politics - the Trump approach We need to hold all of our politicians to the highest standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36215886)
My point on "playing the man" is that nobody among the Remainers here on the Forum has provided quantitative information on the economic benefits of rejoining the EU. [/COLOR]
Holding Farage to British standards by investigating the foreign five mill is not playing the man. The Brexit benefits are now clear - a reduction in GDP by 4% (US says it's even more), a sharp rise in military-aged illegals in small boats arriving on British shores and £ six mill+ in Farage's back pocket. But there's another thread to discuss the UK's relationship with the EU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36215886)
This country needs a government that supports and induces economic growth. The same sort of government as we've had for the past few years won't make a success of rejoining the EU.

Also, seen from today, a Farage government isn't going to cut it either. We've some way to go before this mess gets sorted.[/COLOR]
From any day, a Farage government is unlikely to cut it.

I think another issue is the West's decline and Asia's rise. How does this UK fit into this new landscape?

OLD BOY 21-05-2026 16:44
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36215865)
First wife - Irish
2nd wife - German
Current partner - French

Immigrants - doing the jobs Brits don’t want to… ;)
They are not illegal immigrants, Hugh. An important distinction.

Hugh 21-05-2026 20:31
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36215931)
They are not illegal immigrants, Hugh. An important distinction.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

I never mentioned their status…

1andrew1 21-05-2026 21:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36215865)
First wife - Irish
2nd wife - German
Current partner - French

Immigrants - doing the jobs Brits don’t want to… ;)
I do sometimes wonder whether Farage actually cares about EU membership and if he's just been in it for the easy money. Ditto Johnson. Time will tell.

OLD BOY 22-05-2026 08:38
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36215953)
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

I never mentioned their status…
So why raise it if you were having a poke at Farage? He doesn't hate Europeans, he hates the EU and people who think they can crash into our country without permission.

Sephiroth 22-05-2026 08:48
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36215962)
So why raise it if you were having a poke at Farage? He doesn't hate Europeans, he hates the EU and people who think they can crash into our country without permission.
Well said, OB.

1andrew1 22-05-2026 11:40
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36215931)
They are not illegal immigrants, Hugh. An important distinction.
I think Hugh was being light hearted. :D

Sephiroth 22-05-2026 11:52
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36215974)
I think Hugh was being light hearted. :D
Er - somewhat barbed. It's what he does.

Hugh 22-05-2026 14:16
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36215975)
Er - somewhat barbed. It's what he does.
I aspire to be as even-handed and open-minded as you…

Jaymoss 22-05-2026 14:26
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36215982)
I aspire to be as even-handed and open-minded as you…
That is a more sophisticated way of saying I am rubber you are glue

Sephiroth 22-05-2026 14:55
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36215982)
I aspire to be as even-handed and open-minded as you…

….. like I said.



Paul 22-05-2026 17:15
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Enough of the jibes at each other.

Hugh 22-05-2026 18:09
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Apologies…

Sephiroth 22-05-2026 19:50
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36215999)
Apologies…
Ditto,

jem 22-05-2026 21:13
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36215993)
Enough of the jibes at each other.
Now yes, although I can see that the jibes are faintly entertaining, they do nothing to advance the thread or provide valuable information. Nigel is not a perfect human being, he’s done some stuff, made some comments, which might well make someone go ‘oh wait, what was that again?’

On the other hand, he has made some claims and promises which do resonate with a large number of people. Whether of not these claims stand up to scrutiny or if the promises are possible, is open to debate. If you disagree, don’t attack the person (that goes nowhere), but argue their points, argue their position, argue their policy.

I've said it before and I feel the need to say it again, it is very easy for a popularism politician to propose simple solutions to what are really complex issues. It's all the fault of the ‘Jews, immigrants, muslims, unmarried mothers, left-handed people <insert minority group here>’ get rid of them and magically we’ll be living in Utopia!

Be very, very careful what you wish for, because sometimes with the best will of intentions, you end up with Auschwitz.

Sephiroth 23-05-2026 07:30
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Well said.

Hugh 23-05-2026 08:17
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2p4g86x0vo

Quote:
Kent County Council is introducing the Lord's Prayer and the national anthem at its meetings.

The Reform UK-run local authority voted for each meeting to begin with a recital of the prayer and conclude with the singing of the anthem.

The constitutional amendments were put forward after debate in a council committee earlier in May and backed by Reform, but opposed by many opposition councillors.

In total 48 representatives voted to support the Lord's Prayer proposal and 46 to support the national anthem.

Amendments to instead have a period of reflection prior to meetings instead of the Lord's Prayer, and to have a time gap between the prayer and the meeting's start, both failed…

… A proposal to reduce the time opposition leaders had to respond to leader speeches at full council meetings, from a combined 22 minutes to 17 minutes, was also voted through.

In total 44 voted in favour of that change and 25 voted against it.

1andrew1 23-05-2026 12:46
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36216007)
I didn't think we were a secular country? It also strikes me as a less efficient use of time and reduced opposition scrutiny.

But I don't know how the length of time opposition leaders have to respond to leader speeches at full council meetings in other councils.

jem 23-05-2026 16:45
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36216007)
And why do you think they have done this? It’s to promote ‘outrage’ and so Reform can claim, with some justification, to being the ‘patriotic’ ‘UK first’ party against this who hate the UK and our traditions, etc!

Also a majority off people in the UK will claim to be Christian although never go to Church unless it’s followed by a reception or wake, with free or cheap food and booze! So an attack on, let’s say, ‘Christian values’ can spark a response which isnlt really meritted.

Personally, I’m an atheist, simply because I have no good reason to suspect that a God exists. But if I happened to be a councillor in Kent, would I kick up a massive fuss about it? No. Because that’s exactly what Reform want - I might well think it a waste of time, but in the great scheme of things, when considering local authority waste - it’s probably close to, if not right at the bottom.

Similarly singing the National Anthem after each meeting. I’d be very interested to see how long that lasts, or indeed how many Reform councillors actually stay and sing it after the first month or so.

No this is a sort of troll-like action. Do something which is intended to simply stir uo opposition and then use that to criticise your opponents. Don’t fall for it.

Sephiroth 23-05-2026 16:56
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jem (Post 36216022)
And why do you think they have done this? It’s to promote ‘outrage’ and so Reform can claim, with some justification, to being the ‘patriotic’ ‘UK first’ party against this who hate the UK and our traditions, etc!

Also a majority off people in the UK will claim to be Christian although never go to Church unless it’s followed by a reception or wake, with free or cheap food and booze! So an attack on, let’s say, ‘Christian values’ can spark a response which isnlt really meritted.

Personally, I’m an atheist, simply because I have no good reason to suspect that a God exists. But if I happened to be a councillor in Kent, would I kick up a massive fuss about it? No. Because that’s exactly what Reform want - I might well think it a waste of time, but in the great scheme of things, when considering local authority waste - it’s probably close to, if not right at the bottom.

Similarly singing the National Anthem after each meeting. I’d be very interested to see how long that lasts, or indeed how many Reform councillors actually stay and sing it after the first month or so.

No this is a sort of troll-like action. Do something which is intended to simply stir uo opposition and then use that to criticise your opponents. Don’t fall for it.
I reckon it's utter gollox to waste everyone's time with a prayer and the anthem. Unfortunately it antagonises the other council parties because they wish to be antagonised. So a futile waste of time and effort and I agree with your "troll like" sentiment..

But I'd like to take you up on a side matter - what I highlighted I would claim that the UK is historically of Judeo-Christian culture; atheists generally fit well into this because they respect the religions and adopt the culture.

Same cannot be said of the Islamists who are trying hard to mess with our culture.

TheDaddy 26-05-2026 12:35
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36215756)
Farage from Foreign Accounts has changed his story more times than Sir Keir changes his policies, so I thought I'd best summarise where we are:
  • It was initially a gift of £5m with no conditions attached.
  • Then it became a payment for the purpose of security.
  • Then it became a payment for his Brexit campaigning.
  • £1.4m of the £5m wasn't used to pay for his house, because the house was funded from his I'm a Celebrity appearance.
  • His accounts show the house wasn't bought using funds from his I'm a Celebrity appearance.

Farage may be able to fool some people but I suspect the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner won't be one of them.

If there is a by-election in Southend, will British Reform voters be as forgiving as American MAGA voters? Perhaps his flock will fall for a line about his being victimised by the establishment? He can at least draw upon his Coutts Bank experience to back up this line.
I'm confused now, if the 5 million quid was for security, why is he still not holding surgeries in Clacton?

Sephiroth 26-05-2026 14:30
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36216136)
I'm confused now, if the 5 million quid was for security, why is he still not holding surgeries in Clacton?
Maybe OB knows.

Paul 26-05-2026 14:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36216136)
I'm confused now, if the 5 million quid was for security, why is he still not holding surgeries in Clacton?
Does he know where Clacton is ?

Carth 26-05-2026 14:55
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36216136)
I'm confused now, if the 5 million quid was for security, why is he still not holding surgeries in Clacton?
Maybe there just aren't enough interpreters available? :naughty:

daveeb 26-05-2026 16:21
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36216145)
Maybe there just aren't enough interpreters available? :naughty:
It's >95% white UK so possibly someone bilingual in retired cockney to queens english.

Hugh 29-05-2026 22:00
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Point of Information

Since Farage last voted in the House of Commons on the 18th March 2026, there have been 390 votes in the House.

He doesn't vote in the House for months on end, he doesn't hold Constituency Surgeries - he does know this is supposed to be his main job, doesn't he?

1andrew1 29-05-2026 22:21
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36216145)
Maybe there just aren't enough interpreters available? :naughty:
I guess that's a reference to the surname Farage being ultimately of Arabic origins?

TheDaddy 29-05-2026 23:04
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216279)
I guess that's a reference to the surname Farage being ultimately of Arabic origins?
Well its definitely not of English origin, if it were it'd sound more like garage

Carth 29-05-2026 23:06
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216279)
I guess that's a reference to the surname Farage being ultimately of Arabic origins?

that's like me expecting you to play bagpipes because your name is Andrew ;)

Hugh 30-05-2026 07:25
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36216285)
that's like me expecting you to play bagpipes because your name is Andrew ;)

The Greeks played bagpipes? ;)

Sephiroth 30-05-2026 07:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36216297)
The Greeks played bagpipes? ;)
... and look what happened to them.

Carth 30-05-2026 08:01
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36216297)
The Greeks played bagpipes? ;)
Of course they did (still do), although they call them gaida ;)


https://external-content.duckduckgo....41b&ipo=images

Sephiroth 30-05-2026 08:11
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Looks like a goat's scrotum (with knobs on).

Carth 30-05-2026 12:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36216309)
Looks like a goat's scrotum (with knobs on).
I'll take your word for it, I've never looked at one . . . :erm:

1andrew1 30-05-2026 13:08
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36216318)
I'll take your word for it, I've never looked at one . . . :erm:
It is used in an ancient Wokeingham tradition. :D

papa smurf 30-05-2026 14:03
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216320)
It is used in an ancient Wokeingham tradition. :D
the piping of the scrotum:tiptoe:

Sephiroth 30-05-2026 14:25
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36216318)
I'll take your word for it, I've never looked at one . . . :erm:
.... one or two closer than you may realise!

With net migration falling, soon ALL eyes will be on the small boats and the public's anger at the unfairness of the migrants' treatment will boil over.

Reform UK needs to have a doable plan for dealing with this. It will need to be on sure legal ground, have a legislation plan that sorts out the ECHR and the UNHCR via sensible derogations. They also need to legislate so that the human rights lawyers cannot act for the illegal migrants under legal aid (taxpayer money).

Reform UK will also need a viable economic recover plan - one that will give confidence to lenders for the gap that needs to be closed. That recovery plan must include re-industrialisation and must slow down or abolish Net-Zero so that power becomes affordable.

In other words, they need me, Papa and Carth to advise them!

Carth 30-05-2026 17:30
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I told em (the Gov. ) years ago but they never answered . . and I definitely put a stamp on the letter :D

I'm afraid that if I send another there may well be quite a few hurty words in it, and I'd hate to make a grown man cry ;)

1andrew1 30-05-2026 17:31
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36216323)

In other words, they need me, Papa and Carth to advise them!
I'm not sure they would take unsolicited advice from a loyal Conservative voter like you. But you could pass the baton to Old Boy who's defected to Reform.

Sephiroth 30-05-2026 18:08
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216327)
I'm not sure they would take unsolicited advice from a loyal Conservative voter like you. But you could pass the baton to Old Boy who's defected to Reform.
I shall try. Kaczinski will be my port of call.

I'm less blinkered than OB.

OLD BOY 30-05-2026 19:20
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36216334)
I shall try. Kaczinski will be my port of call.

I'm less blinkered than OB.
I’m not blinkered, but I admit to calling out nonsense if I think someone might be listening.

People have a lot to say against Reform UK, but most of it shows their complete lack of knowledge about what they stand for.

Listen to the smears, lies and put-downs if that makes your boat float, but you’ll only be kidding yourself.

Sephiroth 30-05-2026 19:36
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36216339)
I’m not blinkered, but I admit to calling out nonsense if I think someone might be listening.

People have a lot to say against Reform UK, but most of it shows their complete lack of knowledge about what they stand for.

Listen to the smears, lies and put-downs if that makes your boat float, but you’ll only be kidding yourself.
As you know, OB, I am a Farage fan and much of his top team. I'm not 100% impressed with some types that are Reform supporters.

So, I remain a Conservative and am particularly impressed with Kemi, who can't, single handed, restore her party's fortunes.

You, on the other hand, only defend/justify Reform UK = blinkers.

OLD BOY 30-05-2026 19:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36216343)
As you know, OB, I am a Farage fan and much of his top team. I'm not 100% impressed with some types that are Reform supporters.

So, I remain a Conservative and am particularly impressed with Kemi, who can't, single handed, restore her party's fortunes.

You, on the other hand, only defend/justify Reform UK = blinkers.
Only? Where do you get that idea? I acknowledge completely that Kemi is a good leader of the Conservative Party, but I doubt that she will be able to take the party with her with the policy changes she wants to implement. The Conservatives remain split between their left and right wings, same as Labour.

Sephiroth 30-05-2026 19:52
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Some of the lefties here will be getting the popcorn out right now. So respect, my friend.

Hugh 30-05-2026 19:52
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36216339)
I’m not blinkered, but I admit to calling out nonsense if I think someone might be listening.

People have a lot to say against Reform UK, but most of it shows their complete lack of knowledge about what they stand for.

Listen to the smears, lies and put-downs if that makes your boat float, but you’ll only be kidding yourself.
They're not ”smears, lies" if the information is factually correct.

I see you're following the Trump/Farage playbook of calling anything that reflects adversely on the Party/candidate "fake news" and "mainstream media bias", which is hysterical considering Farage is a presenter and shareholder in GB News, which in itself is basically a Reform propaganda channel.

1andrew1 31-05-2026 08:06
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Reform's biggest issue is being squeezed between the Conservative Party and Restore Britain.

If you want a full-on populist party that promises to ban the burka, defund the BBC and introduce large-scale deportations then Restore Britain covers that territory. Farage opened a Pandora's box by offering impractical populist policies which he's now reigning back on but Rupert Lowe is not so constrained and enjoy's Musk's social media support.

If you want a right-wing party which has the most experience of governing and is safe to mention at dinner parties in the home counties then the Conservative Party has you covered here.

The three-way divisions on the right look sufficient to squeeze Reform and keep them out of power in the next general election. Farage's decision not to keep Rupert Lowe within the Reform UK tent could be his biggest strategic mistake.

thenry 03-06-2026 16:22
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Rage. :no:

Knee jerk MP.

https://news.sky.com/story/archbisho...oblem-13421186

Can he run a country on knee jerk reactions?

Paul 03-06-2026 16:42
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Well thats new ;

Quote:
Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://news.sky.com/story/archbishop-of-york-stephen-cottrell-tells-nigel-farage-kneejerk-migrant-deportation-plan-wont-solve-problem-13421186" on this server.

thenry 03-06-2026 16:50
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Opens fine here Boss

Carth 03-06-2026 18:12
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Opened fine for me too, although there's nothing special, it's just Sky news stirring the pot again . . hoping the mix of politics and religion will boost advertising revenues :D

OLD BOY 03-06-2026 19:44
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36216349)
They're not ”smears, lies" if the information is factually correct.

I see you're following the Trump/Farage playbook of calling anything that reflects adversely on the Party/candidate "fake news" and "mainstream media bias", which is hysterical considering Farage is a presenter and shareholder in GB News, which in itself is basically a Reform propaganda channel.
If they were only factually correct, Hugh, I wouldn’t mind, but I know that a lot of what is said about Farage and his policies is patently untrue. They are just comments parroted from his detractors.

How do I know this? I listen to what he’s actually saying. It does help!

---------- Post added at 20:44 ---------- Previous post was at 20:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216372)
Reform's biggest issue is being squeezed between the Conservative Party and Restore Britain.

If you want a full-on populist party that promises to ban the burka, defund the BBC and introduce large-scale deportations then Restore Britain covers that territory. Farage opened a Pandora's box by offering impractical populist policies which he's now reigning back on but Rupert Lowe is not so constrained and enjoy's Musk's social media support.

If you want a right-wing party which has the most experience of governing and is safe to mention at dinner parties in the home counties then the Conservative Party has you covered here.

The three-way divisions on the right look sufficient to squeeze Reform and keep them out of power in the next general election. Farage's decision not to keep Rupert Lowe within the Reform UK tent could be his biggest strategic mistake.
You wish! Restore has a very poor level of support, and FPTP does not favour political parties with a low percentage of the national vote. Look at how many seats Reform got last time, even with the popularity percentage they achieved. It’s all turned around now, you might as well admit it, even if you don’t like it.

Hugh 03-06-2026 19:45
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36216595)
If they were only factually correct, Hugh, I wouldn’t mind, but I know that a lot of what is said about Farage and his policies is patently untrue. They are just comments parroted from his detractors.

How do I know this? I listen to what he’s actually saying. It does help!.
And I look at what he's actually doing...


So he didn't take £5 million from a Thai-based cryptocurrency billionaire, then changed the the reason why he was given it, or declare it when he became an MP?


(and then hasn't held any press conferences or appeared on any media programmes since the news came out, to avoid having to answer questions on it?)

Carth 03-06-2026 20:27
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
He does right not to 'appear' on any media programs that will (no matter what the subject of the show) relentlessly question him about it . . . and then twist his answers.

1andrew1 04-06-2026 16:22
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36216597)
(and then hasn't held any press conferences or appeared on any media programmes since the news came out, to avoid having to answer questions on it?)
If Reform UK launch an enquiry as to why they lost the Makerfield by-election, then I'm sure Nigel hiding away from media and not promoting his candidate as much as he usually does, will be on the top of the list.

TheDaddy 04-06-2026 16:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36216597)
And I look at what he's actually doing...


So he didn't take £5 million from a Thai-based cryptocurrency billionaire, then changed the the reason why he was given it, or declare it when he became an MP?


(and then hasn't held any press conferences or appeared on any media programmes since the news came out, to avoid having to answer questions on it?)
Has anything been announced by reform policy wise that'd make that 5 million look like money well spent by ihis benefactor...

Carth 04-06-2026 18:22
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36216647)
Has anything been announced by reform policy wise that'd make that 5 million look like money well spent by ihis benefactor...
You means like maybe . . oh . . a new set of saucepans, a couple of pens, a silver tankard, a George Foreman grill . . . and a campervan?

OLD BOY 04-06-2026 19:27
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36216597)
And I look at what he's actually doing...


So he didn't take £5 million from a Thai-based cryptocurrency billionaire, then changed the the reason why he was given it, or declare it when he became an MP?


(and then hasn't held any press conferences or appeared on any media programmes since the news came out, to avoid having to answer questions on it?)
Both reasons he gave were correct, and he’s not given any further press conferences simply because the local elections are over.

Hugh 04-06-2026 19:28
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36216647)
Has anything been announced by reform policy wise that'd make that 5 million look like money well spent by ihis benefactor...
https://www.cityam.com/nigel-farage-...ey-revolution/

Quote:
under Reform UK, there will be no caps on individual holdings of stablecoins. And we will go further. We will slash capital gains tax on cryptoassets such as Bitcoin from 24 per cent to 10 per cent. This will make Britain attractive fintech innovators and blockchain entrepreneurs...

...We will also create a Bitcoin digital reserve at the Bank of England
https://www.ft.com/content/a12fb65d-...9-7ee52e694dab

Quote:
Nigel Farage has pitched himself as the British crypto sector’s saviour, saying “I am your champion”, as the Reform UK leader tries to emulate President Donald Trump in building election support from digital asset investors.

“When it comes to your industry, when it comes to growth in this industry, then I am your champion,” he told the conference on Monday. “We will effectively bring crypto in from the cold.”

OLD BOY 04-06-2026 19:32
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36216598)
He does right not to 'appear' on any media programs that will (no matter what the subject of the show) relentlessly question him about it . . . and then twist his answers.
I don’t blame him. His recent video in which he expresses his concerns about the Novak murder is a good example. He was misquoted by Starmer in the Commons as inviting people to express ‘rage’ and by the BBC’s Newsnight misquoting him as saying ‘white rage’, when what he actually said was ‘cold rage’, the meaning of which has been lost on Farage’s ignorant detractors.

1andrew1 04-06-2026 19:33
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36216647)
Has anything been announced by reform policy wise that'd make that 5 million look like money well spent by ihis benefactor...
Well, for starters their lack of support for Ukraine must be ging down well in some parts of the world. ;)
https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news...k-county-hall/

Dingbat 04-06-2026 19:41
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36216678)
I don’t blame him. His recent video in which he expresses his concerns about the Novak murder is a good example. He was misquoted by Starmer in the Commons as inviting people to express ‘rage’ and by the BBC’s Newsnight misquoting him as saying ‘white rage’, when what he actually said was ‘cold rage’, the meaning of which has been lost on Farage’s ignorant detractors.
So what does ‘cold rage’ actually mean, then?

TheDaddy 04-06-2026 19:42
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36216664)
You means like maybe . . oh . . a new set of saucepans, a couple of pens, a silver tankard, a George Foreman grill . . . and a campervan?
I was thinking more of crypto policy but yeah get distracted by those Scottish amateurs

Sephiroth 04-06-2026 19:45
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216679)
Well, for starters their lack of support for Ukraine must be ging down well in some parts of the world. ;)
https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news...k-county-hall/
Typical Andrew; typical prejudice.

The Council merely want's to stick to British official flags. Nothing wrong with that.

By corollary to your pitch (which is pure hatred of Reform UK), is their failure to fly the Israeli flag, or the Palestinian flag a lack of support for their respective causes?

1andrew1 04-06-2026 21:24
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36216678)
I don’t blame him. His recent video in which he expresses his concerns about the Novak murder is a good example. He was misquoted by Starmer in the Commons as inviting people to express ‘rage’ and by the BBC’s Newsnight misquoting him as saying ‘white rage’, when what he actually said was ‘cold rage’, the meaning of which has been lost on Farage’s ignorant detractors.
'Rage' and 'cold rage' are just abbreviations of what he said - 'pure cold rage'. Farage seemingly went against the wishes of the victim's parents by politicising the situation. It's a clever dogwhistle which he can deny by his clever use of language.

Sephiroth 04-06-2026 21:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
If Farage is "playing political games". then so is Starmer. He was asked a question by Farage and then read his answer from a pre-prepared text. Starmer's "outrage" was as political as his accusation of the same against Farage - clearly trying to score points.

1andrew1 04-06-2026 22:09
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36216687)
If Farage is "playing political games". then so is Starmer. He was asked a question by Farage and then read his answer from a pre-prepared text. Starmer's "outrage" was as political as his accusation of the same against Farage - clearly trying to score points.
Having a prepared answer is not comparable to Farage's video.

Badenoch and Davey were respectful to the wishes of the deceased's parents. It is a shame Farage was not.

OLD BOY 04-06-2026 22:15
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216686)
'Rage' and 'cold rage' are just abbreviations of what he said - 'pure cold rage'. Farage seemingly went against the wishes of the victim's parents by politicising the situation. It's a clever dogwhistle which he can deny by his clever use of language.
It’s already political, because the police are not treating everyone equally and are even instructed not to. That isn’t equality.

Cold rage and pure cold rage - there’s not any appreciable difference between the two. Why are you making a distinction?

1andrew1 04-06-2026 22:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36216689)
It’s already political, because the police are not treating everyone equally and are even instructed not to.
Firstly, Farage's statement disrespected the parents' wishes by both politicising the murder and by sowing division.
Secondly, it is wise to wait for the results of the investigation before stating the police are not instructed to treat everyone equally.

Chris 05-06-2026 06:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216690)
Firstly, Farage's statement disrespected the parents' wishes by both politicising the murder and by sowing division.
Secondly, it is wise to wait for the results of the investigation before stating the police are not instructed to treat everyone equally.
This is a political issue. Saying Farage somehow made it so contra the parents’ wishes is nonsense.

Nobody had any problem with the nakedly political act of calling for rage when George Floyd died in handcuffs. The double standards here are appalling. And, with respect for the boy’s parents, when an incident has such far-reaching ramifications as this one does, their right to shape the narrative is limited. In any case, his father (rightly) criticised the police, and management of police is, ultimately political.

As for ‘wait for the investigation’ - congratulations on your willingness to sing from the hymn sheet the British state constantly uses to kick things into the long grass. It is bad enough, if understandable, that we have had to wait 6 months to even discuss this openly because of its connection with an ongoing court case. Attempting to shut down further discussion while an inquiry is convened behind closed doors for many more months is risible.

There is plenty that ought to be discussed *now* because it rests on police policy documents that are live now. Take for example the Police Anti Racism Commitment which actively advocates for different treatment by race. It explicitly rejects straight anti-racist colour blind approaches. It’s here: https://www.npcc.police.uk/SysSiteAs...commitment.pdf

El Gov now weaselly suggesting the wording ‘gives the wrong impression’ is hardly an excuse - how many lackadaisical coppers, like the one who dismissed Henry Nowak’s truthful statement that he had been stabbed, are putting the wrong impression into practice at work on a daily basis?

Damien 05-06-2026 07:56
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I actually think Badenoch has struck the right balance on this, as much as I normally disagree with her on everything.

She is appealing for calm, in constract to Farage's pot-stirring, and asking for answers without exploting the situation. Calling for rage isn't helping. Even if I think he can't be directly held responsible for the scenes we saw in Southamption, it does show why politicans have to be careful with their language.

As for Reform, do they do any vetting? This candidate for the by-election seems to have no end of troubling tweets brought up. They've hamstrung themselves right out the gate.

papa smurf 05-06-2026 08:07
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36216697)
I actually think Badenoch has struck the right balance on this, as much as I normally disagree with her on everything.

She is appealing for calm, in constract to Farage's pot-stirring, and asking for answers without exploting the situation. Calling for rage isn't helping. Even if I think he can't be directly held responsible for the scenes we saw in Southamption, it does show why politicans have to be careful with their language.

As for Reform, do they do any vetting? This candidate for the by-election seems to have no end of troubling tweets brought up. They've hamstrung themselves right out the gate.
i don't think most reform voters give a toss about what old social media posts are causing woke lefties to have a melt down


what sickened me was starmer inviting the nowak family to downing street in full public view,playing politics to enhance his profile

Damien 05-06-2026 08:15
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36216698)
i don't think most reform voters give a toss about what old social media posts are causing woke lefties to have a melt down
I know Reform voters don't, but Reform need to appeal to a wider electorate. Especially women. There is a natural cap on the number of people who'll appeal to with a candidate who has expressed anti-abortion, anti-Ukraine sentiments. It plays very well on Twitter. Not to much in real life.

Carth 05-06-2026 09:22
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
In my personal life I can't remember many of the women I've known having the faintest interest in politics, it doesn't have the same 'gossip appeal' as Gladys at number 27 taking that young male lodger in, or the farcebook posts about todays bargains at Primark.

Sephiroth 05-06-2026 10:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216688)
Having a prepared answer is not comparable to Farage's video.

Badenoch and Davey were respectful to the wishes of the deceased's parents. It is a shame Farage was not.
Never mind the Badenoch/Davey "tone". Farage is telling iot as it is and more of that is needed in Parliament.

Carth 05-06-2026 12:29
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I think after those latest local elections there were quite a few people telling stuff as it is . . whether those currently in power were listening is anyone's guess though ;)

Sephiroth 05-06-2026 12:33
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36216708)
I think after those latest local elections there were quite a few people telling stuff as it is . . whether those currently in power were listening is anyone's guess though ;)

Doesn't need guessing. They know and shut it out for woke reasons.

Only Reform is calling the woke nonsense out properly. I want my party to do the same.

1andrew1 06-06-2026 16:16
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36216709)

Doesn't need guessing. They know and shut it out for woke reasons.

Only Reform is calling the woke nonsense out properly. I want my party to do the same.
Reform absolutely misrepresented what your Party's leader actually said. This is really gutter-level politics.

Quote:
Speaking on yesterday’s Good Morning Britain, the Conservative leader set out her admirable approach: “I don’t want to hear about Black Lives Matter. I don’t want to hear about White Lives Matter. We all matter. Enough of this nonsense…”

Her comments were immediately used in an attack ad by Reform, taking her phrase “I don’t want to hear about White Lives Matter” and contrasting it with words she used in 2020: “Black lives do matter”. The intention is clear: look at this black woman, who doesn’t give a damn about whites and cares only about blacks.

As I say, I’ve been around the block a bit, but in all those decades I’ve never come across a distortion as wilful, clear and grotesque as this. Both phrases lifted by Reform are not so much taken out of context as handed entirely the opposite meaning.
https://spectator.com/article/zia-yu...s-a-hypocrite/

TheDaddy 06-06-2026 20:46
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216772)
Reform absolutely misrepresented what your Party's leader actually said. This is really gutter-level politics.


https://spectator.com/article/zia-yu...s-a-hypocrite/
Black lives matter would have been better clarifying the name for those who misrepresent for their own agenda or who are to thick to work it the name should actually mean black lives matter as well, not that their lives are more important, just that they matter too

Sephiroth 06-06-2026 21:40
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
There was never a need in the UK for any sort of BLM movement. We are nothing like the USA other than a common language. The woke leftie establishment took up the BLM nonsense because it suited them to do so. All lives matter and that goes without needing to be said and the UK is much nearer to that ideal than the USA.

TheDaddy 06-06-2026 22:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36216790)
There was never a need in the UK for any sort of BLM movement. We are nothing like the USA other than a common language. The woke leftie establishment took up the BLM nonsense because it suited them to do so. All lives matter and that goes without needing to be said and the UK is much nearer to that ideal than the USA.
Never said there was a need here and I actually agree and have said similar on this very forum

Sephiroth 07-06-2026 06:45
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
.... and I was agreeing with The Daddy. Fancy that!

OLD BOY 07-06-2026 09:40
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216772)
Reform absolutely misrepresented what your Party's leader actually said. This is really gutter-level politics.


https://spectator.com/article/zia-yu...s-a-hypocrite/
Oh, the outrage! It's a shame that all the smears against Reform UK don't get called out in the same way.

You don't like it when the boot is on the other foot, do you? Reform is simply fighting fire with fire.

Hugh 07-06-2026 10:41
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
You seem be equating when people report actual facts with evidence (re Farage £5 million not declared) with Reform actually lying about what people actually said.

You really are buying vat-size containers of the Kool-Aid…

1andrew1 07-06-2026 22:06
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36216805)
Oh, the outrage! It's a shame that all the smears against Reform UK don't get called out in the same way.

You don't like it when the boot is on the other foot, do you? Reform is simply fighting fire with fire.
I'm very certain that if Reform UK is misquoted, you'll be kind enough to keep us updated.

In terms of fighting fire with fire, I guess you're suggesting that Reform UK was misquoted by the Conservative Party? Even if this was true, two wrongs don't make a right and Reform UK should not do the same.

OLD BOY 08-06-2026 08:38
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216886)
I'm very certain that if Reform UK is misquoted, you'll be kind enough to keep us updated.

In terms of fighting fire with fire, I guess you're suggesting that Reform UK was misquoted by the Conservative Party? Even if this was true, two wrongs don't make a right and Reform UK should not do the same.
Reform gets misquoted all the time. The most recent one being that Farage was advocating that people should demonstrate ‘rage’, and even ‘white rage’ on the BBC, when he actually said ‘cold rage’, which is quite different.

Cold rage is a reaction to something that makes you absolutely determined to do something about it. This is what he’s advocating.

And those people who say he was trying to stir up division know very well that’s not what he was doing at all. He was saying what most people with brains are saying - that the police should be treating everybody the same.

1andrew1 08-06-2026 10:22
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36216900)
Reform gets misquoted all the time. The most recent one being that Farage was advocating that people should demonstrate ‘rage’, and even ‘white rage’ on the BBC, when he actually said ‘cold rage’, which is quite different.

Cold rage is a reaction to something that makes you absolutely determined to do something about it. This is what he’s advocating.

And those people who say he was trying to stir up division know very well that’s not what he was doing at all. He was saying what most people with brains are saying - that the police should be treating everybody the same.
I agree the BBC misquoted Farage. But my point is that Reform shouldn't then misquote Badenoch. You say it's fighting fire with fire; I think it's gutter level politics.

I don't think you'll find anyone saying that police should not be treating everyone the same. The last report we had on this (2017) said that ethnic minorities were bring treated worse. It's time to see what the current situation is. Are they still being treated worse? Or is the British white majority now being treated worse? Or are both being treated the same? Let's take an evidence-based approach not an anecdotal one.

For a politician like Farage to call policing two tier at this stage is irresponsible. He has ceased to look and act like a PM-in-waiting.

Carth 08-06-2026 10:36
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
To be honest, policing (and punishment) has for a long time been a case of them & us . . meaning the difference if you're a somebody or a nobody ;)

Sephiroth 08-06-2026 10:37
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216911)
I agree the BBC misquoted Farage. But my point is that Reform shouldn't then misquote Badenoch. You say it's fighting fire with fire; I think it's gutter level politics.

I don't think you'll find anyone saying that police should not be treating everyone the same. The last report we had on this (2017) said that ethnic minorities were bring treated worse. It's time to see what the current situation is. Are they still being treated worse? Or is the British white majority now being treated worse? Or are both being treated the same? Let's take an evidence-based approach not an anecdotal one.

For a politician like Farage to call policing two tier at this stage is irresponsible. He has ceased to look and act like a PM-in-waiting.
We saw right in front of our eyes how one member of the British white majority died at the hands of the police who temporarily sided with the murderer.

Misquoting politicians is not the issue, Anyway, Farage calls it right and Kemi is beginning to do so.

1andrew1 08-06-2026 11:58
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36216920)
We saw right in front of our eyes how one member of the British white majority died at the hands of the police who temporarily sided with the murderer.

Misquoting politicians is not the issue, Anyway, Farage calls it right and Kemi is beginning to do so.
You're an intelligent person, Seph. You must know that you can't judge this properly on one or two high profile situations.

Reform UK misquoting Badenoch probably helped you and others think that she was not calling this correctly when she was. The truth is always important.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36216919)
To be honest, policing (and punishment) has for a long time been a case of them & us . . meaning the difference if you're a somebody or a nobody ;)
Agreed.

Sephiroth 08-06-2026 15:05
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36216927)
You're an intelligent person, Seph. You must know that you can't judge this properly on one or two high profile situations.

Reform UK misquoting Badenoch probably helped you and others think that she was not calling this correctly when she was. The truth is always important.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------


Agreed.
Honestly, Andrew, I have not followed the said/she said circus. That's just politicians squirming in their mutual discomfort.

But what was shown in front of the nation's eyes overwrites anything the politicians say. Except that Farage then weighs in, but gets it right, imo.

TheDaddy 08-06-2026 18:21
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36216919)
To be honest, policing (and punishment) has for a long time been a case of them & us . . meaning the difference if you're a somebody or a nobody ;)
And there is the truth the people in charge really don't want to address, how if you're rich, with connections and influence you can literally get away with anything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36216920)
We saw right in front of our eyes how one member of the British white majority died at the hands of the police who temporarily sided with the murderer.
He never died at the hands of police at all, they didn't murder him, mind you its the kind of thing farage would say and then cry about being misquoted

pip08456 08-06-2026 18:32
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36216954)
And there is the truth the people in charge really don't want to address, how if you're rich, with connections and influence you can literally get away with anything.




He never died at the hands of police at all, they didn't murder him, mind you its the kind of thing farage would say and then cry about being misquoted
Would he have still died if they had administered first aid and called an ambulance in the first place? Did handcuffing his hand behind his back exacerbate his injury?

If any answer to the above is yes, then he died at the hands of the police no matter which way you try to switch it.

Sephiroth 08-06-2026 18:44
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36216954)
And there is the truth the people in charge really don't want to address, how if you're rich, with connections and influence you can literally get away with anything.




He never died at the hands of police at all, they didn't murder him, mind you its the kind of thing farage would say and then cry about being misquoted
We saw it in front of us. Literally at the hands of the police. Of course they didn't murder him and it was mischievous of you to attribute that sentiment to me.


---------- Post added at 19:44 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36216955)
Would he have still died if they had administered first aid and called an ambulance in the first place? Did handcuffing his hand behind his back exacerbate his injury?

If any answer to the above is yes, then he died at the hands of the police no matter which way you try to switch it.
TheDaddy should not let his distaste for Farage distort his interpretation of what we saw on the police video.

TheDaddy 08-06-2026 21:08
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36216955)
Would he have still died if they had administered first aid and called an ambulance in the first place? Did handcuffing his hand behind his back exacerbate his injury?

If any answer to the above is yes, then he died at the hands of the police no matter which way you try to switch it.
I don't think the answer to any of the above is yes, what would have changed of course is that he'd have been comforted in his last moments and that is a burden those officers will have to carry forever

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 22:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36216956)
We saw it in front of us. Literally at the hands of the police. Of course they didn't murder him and it was mischievous of you to attribute that sentiment to me.
When you say died at their hands it literally means they killed him, its not mischief its grammatical fact


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