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-   -   Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33712196)

papa smurf 07-12-2024 09:52
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
this thread certainly brings out the worst in people :(

Pierre 07-12-2024 10:05
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36187287)
Cue, "yeah but 7 October, proportionate response"
What does “proportionate” have to do with anything?


I see, in your world the IDF should have just lined up 1200 Palestinians and shot them, raped a few and then call it even?

jfman 07-12-2024 10:07
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36187290)
What does “proportionate” have to do with anything?

I see, in your world the IDF should have just lined up 1200 Palestinians and shot them, raped a few and then call it even?
Probably preferable to bombing 40,000 of them and raping a few.

ianch99 07-12-2024 10:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36187266)
Nobody missed that - it gets mentioned often enough - it’s the tens of thousands of slaughtered Palestinians that get overlooked. Efforts to make October 7th day 1 in the conflict erase decades of Palestinian suffering and occupation. Framing it that way, so to speak.
You are wasting your time: I've said it, you've said it but it will never be enough. One of the main reasons why the Gazans have been/are being killed with impunity is that when the subject is raised, the narrative is changed.

---------- Post added at 10:45 ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36187287)
Cue, "yeah but 7 October, proportionate response"
You forgot "the right to defend itself".

tweetiepooh 09-12-2024 12:46
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
People on all sides are getting killed because of the actions of groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and extreme Zionist groups. But on the Israel side there are means to bring those in charge or responsible to account, or there should be.
IDF members who behave "illegally" will be brought to account and charged (or they would be unless the current regime also behave "illegally"). Israeli politicians are elected and can be unselected should the populace deem it necessary. What checks are there on those opposing Israel? Palestinians elected Hamas, they could see what Hamas were doing, why not vote for a different party? (OK yes it is hard when they have guns and you don't but showing willing to assist then with the IDF in getting rid of them could save many lives.)
Still it is easy to comment from our safe houses where we don't face missiles coming in daily or people with guns threatening you and your family if you don't help or a military response from people angry that their friends and family have been attacked.
Neither side is well served by the international community. Views are often too unilateral and not interested enough in a fair and supported peace, I guess because what is "fair" is very hard to define for all sides but also too many vested interests to one side or the other.

Hugh 09-12-2024 17:30
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36187368)
People on all sides are getting killed because of the actions of groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and extreme Zionist groups. But on the Israel side there are means to bring those in charge or responsible to account, or there should be.
IDF members who behave "illegally" will be brought to account and charged (or they would be unless the current regime also behave "illegally"). Israeli politicians are elected and can be unselected should the populace deem it necessary. What checks are there on those opposing Israel? Palestinians elected Hamas, they could see what Hamas were doing, why not vote for a different party? (OK yes it is hard when they have guns and you don't but showing willing to assist then with the IDF in getting rid of them could save many lives.)
Still it is easy to comment from our safe houses where we don't face missiles coming in daily or people with guns threatening you and your family if you don't help or a military response from people angry that their friends and family have been attacked.
Neither side is well served by the international community. Views are often too unilateral and not interested enough in a fair and supported peace, I guess because what is "fair" is very hard to define for all sides but also too many vested interests to one side or the other.
From previous posts in this thread (15/10/2023)

Quote:
The last elections that were held in the Palestinian Territories (which includes the Gaza Strip and the West Bank) in 2006, and Hamas won a majority (44%) of the vote, and then a Fatah-Hamas Coalition Government was formed. The following year, Hamas seized power in the Gaza Strip, and there have been no elections there since.
Quote:
It was 44% of those voting in the Palestinian Authority (Gaza & the West Bank) - and since 65% of the current Gaza Strip population is under 25, they definitely didn’t vote for them…

Pierre 09-12-2024 18:56
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh View Post
People on all sides are getting killed because of the actions of groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and extreme Zionist groups.

Don’t know who the “extreme Zionist groups” are?

Look we need to cut the BS about how any of this is to do with a Palestinian state.

This is about Iran’s Islamic cult of twelver Shi’ism, need to erase Israel, and their vow to do so, in order to facilitate the return of their messiah Mahdi by 2040.

You can’t reason with fanatical religious fundamentalists, so don’t try.

Until there is regime change in Iran this continues, hopefully Trump can hurt them financially going forward, and they haven’t got Russia to help them, as Assad has found out.

Itshim 09-12-2024 19:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36187263)
Seems correct, if Hamas had not attacked, Israel would not have responded. Do you have proof otherwise ?

Of course, you forgot to mention that Hamas "killed innocent men, women & children", funny how you missed that ....
I was under the impression the Israel or Israeli Jewish citizens have been killing, maiming and forcing non Jews to leave their homes for years . Never mind taking over the west bank. .What did they really think would happen. Please note I am not taking a side just commenting :shocked:

papa smurf 10-12-2024 09:18
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Syria latest: Israeli tanks reported 'less than 20 miles' from Damascus
Israeli tanks are near the Syrian capital of Damascus, according to three security sources cited by Reuters - though the IDF has denied the claims. It follows reported IDF strikes on three Syrian airbases overnight.


here we go again


https://news.sky.com/story/syria-lat...rants-13265154

mrmistoffelees 10-12-2024 09:27
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36187409)
Syria latest: Israeli tanks reported 'less than 20 miles' from Damascus
Israeli tanks are near the Syrian capital of Damascus, according to three security sources cited by Reuters - though the IDF has denied the claims. It follows reported IDF strikes on three Syrian airbases overnight.


here we go again


https://news.sky.com/story/syria-lat...rants-13265154
Oh those cheeky chappies making yet another land grab under the guise of <insert BS statement here>

papa smurf 10-12-2024 09:40
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36187410)
Oh those cheeky chappies making yet another land grab under the guise of <insert BS statement here>
Strange the first thing on your mind is Land Grab

1andrew1 10-12-2024 10:10
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36187411)
Strange the first thing on your mind is Land Grab
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. ;)

Hugh 10-12-2024 10:10
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Maybe because of this happening?

https://news.sky.com/story/egypt-acc...-zone-13270377

Quote:
Israeli troops have seized a demilitarised buffer zone in the Golan Heights in a move that has been criticised by Egypt and Qatar.

Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said his forces had entered the 155-square mile area after a rebel advance ended Syrian President Bashar al Assad's rule on Sunday.

The zone was established by a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Syria in 1974.

Mr Netanyahu said the 50-year-old deal had collapsed and Syrian troops had abandoned their positions in the zone, necessitating the Israeli takeover as a "temporary defensive position".

jfman 10-12-2024 11:31
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
I suspect the CIA’s useful idiots here are going to realise how flimsy their allegiances are even quicker than usual.

Hugh 10-12-2024 12:01
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36187416)
I suspect the CIA’s useful idiots here are going to realise how flimsy their allegiances are even quicker than usual.
Well, I suppose the tankies/vatniks have to look for some positives out of this, no matter how tenuous...

jfman 10-12-2024 13:17
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36187418)
Well, I suppose the tankies/vatniks have to look for some positives out of this, no matter how tenuous...
There’s nothing positive about giving more dangerous people more reasons to want to bomb us, and more territory from which to plan such actions.

ianch99 11-12-2024 00:03
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36187263)
Seems correct, if Hamas had not attacked, Israel would not have responded. Do you have proof otherwise ?

Of course, you forgot to mention that Hamas "killed innocent men, women & children", funny how you missed that ....
I have mentioned numerous times how Hamas is a terrorist death cult and needs to be removed and condemned its barbaric actions. How many times do you need?

You are also assuming that Israel has not been killing innocent Palestinians before Oct 1st, you are wrong in this assumption.

Paul 11-12-2024 01:05
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36187475)
You are also assuming that Israel has not been killing innocent Palestinians before Oct 1st, you are wrong in this assumption.
You're making it up as you go along.
The only person making assumptions seems to be you.
I have made no mention of what Israel may or may not have done before your arbitary date.

1andrew1 11-12-2024 07:30
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36187425)
There’s nothing positive about giving more dangerous people more reasons to want to bomb us, and more territory from which to plan such actions.
Who are the more dangerous people?

ianch99 11-12-2024 22:43
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36187480)
Who are the more dangerous people?
Depend how you define dangerous? If you measure this by number of people killed by said party, amount and sophistication of weaponry then there is not real contest. Add the willingness to destabilise neighbouring countries through preemptive military actions then there is only one clear winner.

However, if you then start to draw a trajectory of the ruins of the once mainly secular state towards an extreme Islamist one then this opens up a whole new narrative. Of course, the current actions of Israel in bombing the daylights out of the newly liberated Syria will provide a lot of propaganda for the nascent Islamist state actors.

Itshim 12-12-2024 07:39
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36187480)
Who are the more dangerous people?
Israelis.

---------- Post added at 07:39 ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36187548)
Depend how you define dangerous? If you measure this by number of people killed by said party, amount and sophistication of weaponry then there is not real contest. Add the willingness to destabilise neighbouring countries through preemptive military actions then there is only one clear winner.

However, if you then start to draw a trajectory of the ruins of the once mainly secular state towards an extreme Islamist one then this opens up a whole new narrative. Of course, the current actions of Israel in bombing the daylights out of the newly liberated Syria will provide a lot of propaganda for the nascent Islamist state actors.
This says it all:(

Pierre 12-12-2024 12:15
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36187480)
Who are the more dangerous people?
Remains to be seen.

The Syrian revolutionists are Al Qaida adjacent. which means they're not necessarily going to be friendly with Iran.

But that's a bit like saying I'd rather be killed by a Tiger Shark rather than a Great White.

mrmistoffelees 12-12-2024 12:32
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36187578)
Remains to be seen.

The Syrian revolutionists are Al Qaida adjacent. which means they're not necessarily going to be friendly with Iran.

But that's a bit like saying I'd rather be killed by a Tiger Shark rather than a Great White.
A degree are, not all

jfman 12-12-2024 14:24
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36187480)
Who are the more dangerous people?
I just meant a greater number. The crosshair on our backs (metaphorically) gets bigger every day the Israeli genocide continues. Giving them free rein over the Syrian territory (that which Israel doesn't annex) once they realise they've been played they'll be ripe for a return to extremism.

1andrew1 12-12-2024 18:23
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Thanks all, some thoughtful responses to my last question. :)

mrmistoffelees 15-12-2024 18:32
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
what a surprise…..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6lgln128xo

Paul 15-12-2024 18:36
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Some clue as to what that is without clicking on it ?

spiderplant 15-12-2024 18:42
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36187758)
Some clue as to what that is without clicking on it ?
"Israel plans to expand Golan settlements after fall of Assad"

mrmistoffelees 15-12-2024 18:43
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36187758)
Some clue as to what that is without clicking on it ?
Yeah sorry forgot about that !

‘ Israel's government has approved a plan to encourage the expansion of settlements in the occupied Golan Heights.’

Paul 15-12-2024 18:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Hmmm, who would want to live there ? Doesnt seem like it would be very safe.

mrmistoffelees 15-12-2024 19:08
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36187762)
Hmmm, who would want to live there ? Doesnt seem like it would be very safe.
I think that article says there’s about thirty settlements with 20k settlers in total already

tweetiepooh 16-12-2024 09:47
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Israel needs to step carefully here. They took the Golan because their enemies were using it as a high ground to shell Israel. Taking them for protection and some settlement on them would likely be OK but to settle further at a time when they need to keep allies for their attacks on terror groups must really be justified.

papa smurf 16-12-2024 09:51
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36187776)
Israel needs to step carefully here. They took the Golan because their enemies were using it as a high ground to shell Israel. Taking them for protection and some settlement on them would likely be OK but to settle further at a time when they need to keep allies for their attacks on terror groups must really be justified.
They might as well rename it as target heights

tweetiepooh 16-12-2024 10:01
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36187777)
They might as well rename it as target heights
But they are high. Prior to 67 sniper positions on the Heights were used to shoot into Israel. Israel at the time was very unlikely to snipe into surrounding nations. The current government is somewhat more hawkish but I doubt even they would order.

mrmistoffelees 16-12-2024 10:04
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36187776)
Israel needs to step carefully here. They took the Golan because their enemies were using it as a high ground to shell Israel. Taking them for protection and some settlement on them would likely be OK but to settle further at a time when they need to keep allies for their attacks on terror groups must really be justified.

Israel have stated that due to the Syrian regime collapse that the agreement in place is now null and void. And wouldn’t you know it off they go.

I’d really like to see anyone try to justify this.


Israel appear to believe they can act with impunity because they know the US and other nations will back them up due to their sense of guilt. And if you don’t agree with their agenda then you’re anti Israeli

They’re acting like a political shithouse

1andrew1 16-12-2024 10:19
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36187781)
They’re acting like a political shithouse
Looks like plain and simple opportunism - grab some of your neighbour's land when they're laid up in bed and can't do anything about it. I guess the argument goes that the bigger Israel is, the safer it is.

mrmistoffelees 16-12-2024 10:48
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36187784)
Looks like plain and simple opportunism - grab some of your neighbour's land when they're laid up in bed and can't do anything about it. I guess the argument goes that the bigger Israel is, the safer it is.
I’m not sure that argument holds much weight considering the unequivocal support it has from for example the US.

If it were any other nation in the region doing the same there would be hell on, if Israel didn’t have said backing it wouldn’t dare do it.

They’re like the kid that goes and hits another kid because they know they’ve got a bigger kid who will stand up for them no what they do.

papa smurf 16-12-2024 11:29
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36187780)
But they are high. Prior to 67 sniper positions on the Heights were used to shoot into Israel. Israel at the time was very unlikely to snipe into surrounding nations. The current government is somewhat more hawkish but I doubt even they would order.
I meant the heights would become a target if they get covered in settlements

Pierre 16-12-2024 13:54
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36187784)
Looks like plain and simple opportunism .
Prudence, until they know what this Jihadi led militia's intentions are.

TheDaddy 16-12-2024 16:00
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36187795)
Prudence, until they know what this Jihadi led militia's intentions are.
Even when they do know, they are not giving it back hence the political shithouse comment earlier

Pierre 16-12-2024 17:48
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36187799)
Even when they do know, they are not giving it back hence the political shithouse comment earlier
Abu Mohammed al-Golani. (I’ve seen it spelled Jawlani & Jolani) but it is Golani.

Means the “from Golan”, his father was from there.

It’s not his real name, so he has changed it as a statement

One might think he would like to return to Golan………………..

ianch99 31-12-2024 09:26
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Good to hear:

Pope calls Gaza airstrikes 'cruelty' after Israeli minister's criticism

Quote:
Pope Francis on Saturday again condemned Israeli airstrikes in Gaza, a day after an Israeli government minister publicly denounced the pontiff for suggesting the global community should study whether the military offensive there constitutes a genocide of the Palestinian people.

Francis opened his annual Christmas address to the Catholic cardinals who lead the Vatican's various departments with what appeared to be a reference to Israeli airstrikes on Friday that killed at least 25 Palestinians in Gaza.

"Yesterday, children were bombed," said the pope. "This is cruelty. This is not war. I wanted to say this because it touches the heart."
The pope, as leader of the 1.4-billion-member Roman Catholic Church, is usually careful about taking sides in conflicts, but he has recently been more outspoken about Israel's military campaign against Palestinian militant group Hamas.
In book excerpts published last month, the pontiff said some international experts said that "what is happening in Gaza has the characteristics of a genocide".

Paul 31-12-2024 12:50
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
The Israeli government denounces anyone who disagrees with them, I dont think anyone pays much attention to their moaning now.
However, I think the reverse is also true, aside from the denouncing, they (Israel) dont really pay much attention to people who criticize them.

thenry 07-01-2025 17:12
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
"all hell will break loose in the middle east"

If the hostages aren't returned by the time Trump takes office. Assertive by President Trump.

1andrew1 07-01-2025 17:26
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36188855)
"all hell will break loose in the middle east"

If the hostages aren't returned by the time Trump takes office. Assertive by President Trump.
A bit late - I think it already has.

thenry 07-01-2025 17:29
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36188858)
A bit late - I think it already has.
Israel taking Gaza and the West Bank has to happen yet.

1andrew1 07-01-2025 19:41
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36188860)
Israel taking Gaza and the West Bank has to happen yet.
The debate is around whether "all hell has broken loose in the Middle East". I think to all intents and purposes it has.

Whether Israel has taken Gaza and the West Bank is a different question entirely. The two should not be conflated.

thenry 07-01-2025 20:03
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
My opinion is that the fact fellow Muslims are still in the area of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank is holding off any serious war in the region.

Hugh 07-01-2025 21:40
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36188873)
My opinion is that the fact fellow Muslims are still in the area of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank is holding off any serious war in the region.
It may also be the fact the "fellow Muslims" are not a homogenous mass, but a bunch of countries, and Muslim sects within those countries, who hate each other - Saudis vs Iran in a proxy war in Yemen, Iraq and Iran at each other's throats (even though Iran are trying to take over Iraq by stealth), Libya ruled by various battling warlords, Turkey fighting the Syrians, Kurds, & Iranians, and Sunnis and Shi'ites (mostly funded by Iran) in most of the Middle East countries hate each other...

Interesting book review in the Times a couple of months ago (the Syria references are out of date now).

https://www.thetimes.com/culture/boo...ined-rdg8t583j

Quote:
From 1945–2008, the region’s civil wars attracted on average just over two outside countries. From 2008, they have drawn in an average of more than six.

thenry 08-01-2025 08:35
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
They all follow the Qur'an, and although Sunnis and Shi'ites differ in some verses, they both believe Israel to be a disbeliever in Holy beliefs. Having said that Saudi Arabia, the owner of Islam, won't wage a war with Israel. But what is interesting is the Qur'an says the hypocrites don't fight in the name of Islam. So what is Saudi Arabias stance on Israel?

Hugh 08-01-2025 08:51
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Well, this was about to happen, until the Iran-backed Hamas attack in October ‘23…

https://www.ibanet.org/article/d2659...0-a971485ec3d6

Quote:
As countries in the Middle East move to re-position themselves to face new perceived threats, a major new alliance, and one previously considered implausible, appears to be emerging. The conservative Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is signalling it can strike an unprecedented peace deal with Israel, a country that is still known in some Saudi books as the ‘Zionist Enemy’.

The region is abuzz with slogans for the new deal but nothing captures what’s going on as well as ‘the deal of the century’, a phrase coined by Egyptian General-turned-President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi and extensively adopted by Arab media. The idea is that all Arab nations will finally become allies with Israel, bringing peace to the previously tumultuous region.

At the heart of the new deal is Saudi Arabia, now having surpassed Egypt as the Arab countries’ uncontested leader, backed with soft-power and vast, oil-generated coffers.

Recently, Saudi Arabia has made the shift to limit the threats it faces to no more than two enemies: Iran and Sunni Islamist political opposition. These happen to be seen as the two threats facing Israel as well. This has brought both countries to an unlikely alliance. In the words of an influential member of the Al Saud ruling family, Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, ‘For the first time, Saudi Arabian interests and Israel are almost parallel… It’s incredible.’

Iran and Saudi Arabia are already engaged in a cold war across the Middle East. Israel is rattled at the prospect of a nuclear Iran. Saudi Arabia sees combating organised Islamist opposition as a priority, especially after their Arab Spring successes. Israel shares the same concerns as the country fears a repeat of the Arab Spring could lead to Islamist governments taking over from current unpopular regimes and later gaining control of vast military resources.
Quote:
They all follow the Qur'an, and although Sunnis and Shi'ites differ in some verses, they both believe Israel to be a disbeliever in Holy beliefs.
Catholics and Protestants in Norn Iron all "follow" the Bible, but we don’t see them singing from the same hymn-sheet - viewing all Muslims as a homogeneous group, considering their long, long history of inter-sect conflicts, isn’t, imho, a valid basis for theorising future directions…

thenry 15-01-2025 16:57
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
A ceasefire agreement has been reached, a Hamas official has told Sky News, after more than a year of fighting in Gaza.

https://news.sky.com/story/a-ceasefi...-news-13270327
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36188855)
"all hell will break loose in the middle east"

If the hostages aren't returned by the time Trump takes office. Assertive by President Trump.
Well done Trump :woot:

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tr...ening-13285181

1andrew1 15-01-2025 17:40
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36189395)
Well done Sleepy Jo! Let's hope that the incoming administration can build on your team's work. :clap:

Pierre 15-01-2025 17:50
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36189396)
Well done Sleepy Jo! Let's hope that the incoming administration can build on your team's work. :clap:
Of course…………..he’d done so, so much in the last 15months.


Amazing how a ceasefire miraculously is announced 5 days before Trumps inauguration

Damien 15-01-2025 17:51
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
It would be good for this to be over whoever takes credit. The deal largely seems to be one the Americans came up with months ago but I don't think it would happen without the deadline of Trump becoming President in a few days and him making it clear that he'll expect a deal to be done and who knows under what terms.

thenry 15-01-2025 17:54
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
SkyNews were speculating the Philadelphi corridor being withdrawn from by Israel.

Pierre 22-01-2025 22:11
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Seems to be a major mistake by Israel here.

Releasing terrorists to replace those killed.

Already videos showing Hamas soldiers commandeering aid trucks.

Israel should play along, get all the Hostages back………then go straight back into Gaza and continue to eliminate Hamas.

thenry 05-02-2025 13:14
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Trump’s declaration US will ‘take over’ Gaza Strip sparks global condemnation

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...st-latest-live
I was hoping against this kind of development. America doesn't own the world and never will do! May be it's a kick up the arse by Trump :erm:

Hugh 05-02-2025 13:38
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
More likely this from last March…

https://apnews.com/article/jared-kus...d0c4582a4deb47

Quote:
Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s former White House adviser and his son-in-law, praised the “very valuable” potential of Gaza’s “waterfront property,” suggesting that Israel should remove civilians while it “cleans up” the area.

1andrew1 05-02-2025 13:40
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36190721)
I was hoping against this kind of development. America doesn't own the world and never will do! May be it's a kick up the arse by Trump :erm:
Some suggestions he will use it as a lever for Saudi Arabia to normalise relations with Israel.

But realistically, he can't carry out the plan without agreement from the residents of Gaza which isn't going to happen. And it runs counter to many of his supporters who voted for someone to focus on the US and not get involved with overseas problems.

thenry 05-02-2025 13:50
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
I guess we've gone full circle then and Trump comes out on top...

Quote:
Saudi Arabia said it would not establish ties with Israel without the creation of a Palestinian state, contradicting President Donald Trump's claim that Riyadh was not demanding a Palestinian homeland when he said the U.S. wants to take over the Gaza Strip.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...on-2025-02-05/

Hugh 05-02-2025 14:02
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Not sure how Trump could take possession of the Gaza Strip?

Another "Forever War", like Afghanistan and Iraq?

thenry 05-02-2025 14:09
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Trump prides himself with no wars during his presidency

1andrew1 05-02-2025 14:15
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36190727)
Not sure how Trump could take possession of the Gaza Strip?

Another "Forever War", like Afghanistan and Iraq?
I can't see how the US can just turn up and deport unwilling residents to countries that have not agreed to take them.

And who is the intended population of a US-owned Gaza going to be?

If he got through these impossible hurdles, the geography in Gaza makes it easier to occupy than entire countries, especially those like Afghanistan with lots of mountains.

ianch99 05-02-2025 14:17
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36190731)
I can't see how the US can just turn up and deport unwilling residents to countries that have not agreed to take them.

And who is the intended population of a US-owned Gaza going to be?

If he got through these impossible hurdles, the geography in Gaza makes it easier to occupy than entire countries, especially those like Afghanistan with lots of mountains.
If this happens, which it won't, it will be via Israel as a proxy. They have the intel, boots on the ground and most importantly, the MAGA folks won't mind Israeli troops dying in the attempt.

TheDaddy 05-02-2025 14:22
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36190729)
Trump prides himself with no wars during his presidency
Wasn't this factually incorrect?

thenry 05-02-2025 14:30
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36190734)
Wasn't this factually incorrect?
How?

Paul 06-02-2025 00:36
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
He's President, and there is a war in Ukraine ?

Perhaps he means no wars (directly) involving the US.

TheDaddy 06-02-2025 13:03
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36190735)
How?
Because it's not true, dozens of US service people died in combat in Afghanistan during his presidency, they also escalated wars in Yemen and Syria, the former at least resulted in more US deaths.

thenry 06-02-2025 15:02
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
It took time to withdraw from Afghanistan. And although air strikes are classed as an act of war there wasn't any boots on the ground in Syria or Yemen ?

Hugh 06-02-2025 15:36
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36190776)
It took time to withdraw from Afghanistan. And although air strikes are classed as an act of war there wasn't any boots on the ground in Syria or Yemen ?
Quote:
March 2017: Regular U.S. forces arrive and the Battle of Tabqa

U.S. special operations forces near Manbij, acting as advisors to the Syrian Democratic Forces, March 2017

On 8 March, various news outlets reported that regular U.S. troops, part of an amphibious task force, left their ships in the Middle East and deployed to Syria to establish an outpost from which they can provide artillery support for U.S.-backed local forces who were preparing to assault Raqqa in a battle to liberate the city from ISIL control. The deployment marked a new escalation in the U.S.'s role in Syria and put more conventional U.S. troops on the ground, a role that, thus far, had primarily been filled by Special Operations units. The ground force was part of the 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit; 400 U.S. Marines from the Battalion Landing Team 1st Battalion, 4th Marines were tasked to crew an artillery battery of M777 howitzers whilst additional infantrymen from the unit will provide security. Resupplies were to be handled by a detachment of the expeditionary force's combat logistics element. A defense official with direct knowledge of the operation said the Marines were flown from Djibouti to Kuwait and then into Syria. By then, there were 900 U.S. soldiers and Marines deployed to Syria in total (500 special forces troops were already on the ground to train and support the SDF); under the existing limits put in place by the Obama administration, the formal troop cap for Syria is 503 personnel, but commanders have the authority to temporarily exceed that limit to meet military requirements.

There were approximately 100 U.S. Army Rangers in Stryker vehicles and armored Humvees deployed in and around Manbij in northern Syria, U.S. officials said.
Quote:
November 2018
On 1 November, the Coalition began a series of joint patrols with the Turkish Armed Forces along the frontlines of the Kurdish-controlled Manbij region and the Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army's territory. The move was seen as a part of a "roadmap" to ease tensions between the NATO ally and U.S. backed Kurdish forces, and reduce violence between Kurdish and Turkish-backed elements.[376]
On 21 November, U.S. Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis announced the U.S. would set up new observation posts along the Turkish border in northern Syria in order to reduce skirmishes between Turkish forces and armed Kurdish militants in the region such as the border clashes in late October-early November. Mattis affirmed that it was a co-operational endeavor with Turkey and it will not require additional U.S. troops to be deployed to Syria
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time...rian_civil_war

TheDaddy 06-02-2025 18:17
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36190776)
It took time to withdraw from Afghanistan. And although air strikes are classed as an act of war there wasn't any boots on the ground in Syria or Yemen ?
Americans were killed and wounded in Yemen, 29th January 2017, not sure why your trying to excuse his lies, the media does this all the time he didn’tmean it, it's just donny being donny, that man child is in arguably the most important job in the world and people excuse his shithousery daily, his words and actions have consequences and yet he's just given a pass

thenry 06-02-2025 18:24
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
I'm not trying to excuse his actions. I'm not stuck up him. I just didn't think US personnel were on the ground in other areas in the region.

Was it this? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port...017_January_29

Paul 06-02-2025 19:57
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36190790)
Americans were killed and wounded in Yemen, 29th January 2017, not sure why your trying to excuse his lies
Wind it back a few notches.
Just becasue YOU know something, doesnt mean everyone does.
It does not mean anyone is excusing anything, just more information was needed.

TheDaddy 06-02-2025 21:00
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36190798)
Wind it back a few notches.
Just becasue YOU know something, doesnt mean everyone does.
It does not mean anyone is excusing anything, just more information was needed.
It's not my intention to upset anyone and it's not a case of me knowing something, its more that I'm surprised anyone would take anything he says at face value, I mean what more does donnie have to do, 30000+ lies first time round, a convicted felon, a failed coup etc etc and people (especially the media) are still quoting his word as fact :spin:

OLD BOY 08-02-2025 00:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36190731)
I can't see how the US can just turn up and deport unwilling residents to countries that have not agreed to take them.

And who is the intended population of a US-owned Gaza going to be?

If he got through these impossible hurdles, the geography in Gaza makes it easier to occupy than entire countries, especially those like Afghanistan with lots of mountains.
Watch and learn. Trump does not abide by stupid rules. He just wants to solve problems.

TheDaddy 08-02-2025 02:39
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36190885)
Watch and learn. Trump does not abide by stupid rules. He just wants to solve problems.
Yeah that's why he's a convicted felon and a judge said he raped someone because of stupid rules and I'm sure he does see the Palestinians as a problem, trouble is they're not keen on being ethnically cleansed and the rest of the world isn't keen either

Paul 08-02-2025 05:04
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36190885)
Watch and learn. Trump does not abide by stupid rules. He just wants to solve problems.
All he actually does is cause problems.

thenry 09-02-2025 18:28
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36189400)
SkyNews were speculating the Philadelphi corridor being withdrawn from by Israel.
So this is not happening? What were the demands then and the deadlock which lasted so long :confused:

Quote:
As part of the deal, Israel agreed to withdraw its military from the four-mile-long Netzarim corridor, which separates northern Gaza from the south.

https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-f...-gaza-13306010

TheDaddy 09-02-2025 19:44
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36190975)
So this is not happening? What were the demands then and the deadlock which lasted so long :confused:
They're not the same thing? One is on the boarder of Egypt and the other is almost in the middle of Gaza :confused:

thenry 09-02-2025 19:47
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36190980)
They're not the same thing? One is on the boarder of Egypt and the other is almost in the middle of Gaza :confused:
Huh :confused:

Hugh 09-02-2025 20:13
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36190975)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry
SkyNews were speculating the Philadelphi corridor being withdrawn from by Israel.
So this is not happening? What were the demands then and the deadlock which lasted so long :confused:

Quote:
As part of the deal, Israel agreed to withdraw its military from the four-mile-long Netzarim corridor, which separates northern Gaza from the south.

https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-f...-gaza-13306010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36190980)
They're not the same thing? One is on the boarder of Egypt and the other is almost in the middle of Gaza :confused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36190982)
Huh :confused:
From Wikipedia…

The Philadelphi Corridor is the Israeli code name for a narrow strip of land, some 100 metres wide and 14 km (8.7 miles) long, situated along the entirety of the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt.

The Netzarim Corridor is an area in the Gaza Strip that served as an Israeli zone of military occupation from 2023 to 2025 during the Gaza war. The corridor, which split the Gaza Strip down the middle, was located just south of Gaza City and stretched from the Gaza–Israel border to the Mediterranean Sea. It was named for the site of the former Israeli settlement that it includes.

thenry 09-02-2025 20:33
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Why are you telling me of the differences. I was questioning the deadlock in negotiation :confused:

Paul 09-02-2025 22:39
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36190989)
Why are you telling me of the differences. I was questioning the deadlock in negotiation :confused:
Because your posts did not indicate that, you may want to be a little clearer next time. ;)

thenry 09-02-2025 22:43
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36190993)
Because your posts did not indicate that, you may want to be a little clearer next time. ;)
How clear did you want my post? So (the above quote) the Philadelphi corridor isn't happening, why the time taking in negotiation :confused:

Paul 09-02-2025 22:51
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36190994)
How clear did you want my post?
Clearly multiple people (inc me) did not understand your point.
I'm not getting into a long discussion about it, nor is anyone else.
Back to the topic.

Hugh 10-02-2025 00:00
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Context is all…

(We don’t know what your post is about…)

jfman 09-03-2025 18:21
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
All going well for the new Syrian regime I see. Just as well the Russians are there to give the minorities under attack somewhere safe to flee to.

Reports vary from hundreds up to a reported 7,000 minorities, including Christians, reported to be in Hmeimim air base.

The “former al-Qaeda now moderate” rebel forces are calling for the Russians to hand over the refugees.

The efforts to remove Russian forces being induced may well have prevented a genocide here although the definition is much more fluid than it used to be.

Pierre 09-03-2025 18:29
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36192527)
All going well for the new Syrian regime I see. Just as well the Russians are there to give the minorities under attack somewhere safe to flee to.

Reports vary from hundreds up to a reported 7,000 minorities, including Christians, reported to be in Hmeimim air base.

The “former al-Qaeda now moderate” rebel forces are calling for the Russians to hand over the refugees.

The efforts to remove Russian forces being induced may well have prevented a genocide here although the definition is much more fluid than it used to be.
Once again, Islamics showing the Jews how to do it.

Sephiroth 01-04-2025 17:35
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
My first entry to this topic - as in where I stand, it is Hamas that is killing the Gazan people by means of Israeli weapons. All that Hamas needs to do is release all remaining hostages.

Btw, the pro-Hamas/Palestinian rallies in London should remind us of the elephant in our room.

1andrew1 02-04-2025 11:57
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Bad news if you're a hostage or Gazan.
Quote:
Israeli forces will seize “large areas” of Gaza and turn them into buffer zones, Israel’s defence minister said on Wednesday, as the military expanded its renewed offensive in the Palestinian enclave.

The announcement marks the latest intensification of Israeli operations in Gaza since Israel broke a two-month ceasefire with Hamas last month and cut off supplies of food, fuel, humanitarian aid and medicine to the 2.2mn people living in the shattered territory.

Israel has already turned large tracts of land along Gaza’s border with the country into buffer zones, as well as creating a similar area in the Netzarim Corridor, which runs through the centre of the strip, separating its north and south.

In his statement on Wednesday, defence minister Israel Katz gave no details of where or how large the new land seizures would be. But he said the renewed fighting would be accompanied by a “large-scale” evacuation of Gaza’s population from combat areas.

He also repeated his previous calls for Palestinians in Gaza to turn against militant group Hamas and release Israeli hostages still being held there, saying this was the “only way to end the war”.

The announcement was met with dismay by relatives of the hostages, with the organisation representing them issuing a statement accusing Katz of “sacrificing the hostages for seizing territory”.

“Instead of freeing the hostages through a deal and ending the war, the Israeli government is sending more troops into Gaza, to fight in the same places where they have already fought time and time again,” said the Hostages and Missing Families Forum.
https://www.ft.com/content/ec189f74-...f-663b6f56f81b

Pierre 02-04-2025 12:07
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36193713)
Bad news if you're a hostage or Gazan.

https://www.ft.com/content/ec189f74-...f-663b6f56f81b
typically biased reporting.

Israel broke the ceasefire because Hamas were reneging on the terms of the ceasefire

1andrew1 02-04-2025 12:28
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193714)

Israel broke the ceasefire because Hamas were reneging on the terms of the ceasefire
Nice try but wrong.

Maggy 02-04-2025 12:46
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Who cares? Neither side is to be trusted..

Sephiroth 02-04-2025 13:04
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36193720)
Who cares? Neither side is to be trusted..
Er - it was Hamas that invaded Israel, brutally murdered 1200 people and took hostages. Hams needs to be smashed and if they cared at all for the people who elected them all those years back, they’d have released all the hostages by now.

It’s on Hamas.

ianch99 02-04-2025 14:23
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Israel continues its killing spree:

Bodies of 15 rescue workers recovered from grave in Gaza, UN officials say

Quote:
Fifteen emergency and aid workers from the Red Crescent, Palestinian Civil Defense and the United Nations have been recovered from a grave in the sand in the south of the Gaza Strip, U.N. officials said on Monday.

U.N. aid chief Tom Fletcher said in a post on X that the bodies were buried near "wrecked & well-marked vehicles," adding: "They were killed by Israeli forces while trying to save lives. We demand answers & justice."

Israel's military did not comment directly on the deaths of the Red Crescent workers.

"The available information indicates that the first team was killed by Israeli forces on 23 March, and that other emergency and aid crews were struck one after another over several hours as they searched for their missing colleagues," the spokesperson added.
With Trump in the White House, Israel can act with impunity and can expect no consequences. Any criticism of what they do is met with severe censorship in the US with extreme-right Israel groups like Betar USA actively highlighting those who protest:

A pro-Israel group says it gave US list of protesters to deport, drawing alarm from students’ supporters

Quote:
Now, as the Trump administration has begun arresting and trying to deport several noncitizen students and academics – some of whom were pro-Palestinian protesters – Betar says it’s been telling the administration whom to look for.

Betar says it shared with the government a list of noncitizen protesters and activists it believes should be deported. It says the effort is in response to President Donald Trump’s January executive order, which promised to “combat antisemitism” on college campuses. An accompanying administration fact sheet said the government could seek to deport noncitizen “Hamas sympathizers,” participants of “pro-jihadist protests” and people accused of antisemitic acts.
If you live in the US at the moment, be careful of what you say or post ...

---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36193720)
Who cares? Neither side is to be trusted..
I think the parents of the children killed as a result of the new attacks may care.

Sephiroth 02-04-2025 15:05
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36193732)
<SNIP>


I think the parents of the children killed as a result of the new attacks may care.
.... as would the relatives of murdered and hostaged Israelis.
Just to remind - all Hamas needs to do - and ever needed to do, is to release the Israeli hostages.

jfman 02-04-2025 15:35
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36193737)
.... as would the relatives of murdered and hostaged Israelis.
Just to remind - all Hamas needs to do - and ever needed to do, is to release the Israeli hostages.
Hamas didn’t get medics summarily executed no amount of mind bending semantics can detract from that. If literally anyone else did it there would be no hesitation in calling it a war crime.

Nor are there actually any guarantees that releasing all the hostages would end a borderline genocide.

ianch99 02-04-2025 21:52
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
More data on the IDF killings:

Palestinian paramedics shot by Israeli forces had hands tied, witnesses say

Quote:
Some of the bodies of 15 Palestinian paramedics and rescue workers, killed by Israeli forces and buried in a mass grave nine days ago in Gaza, were found with their hands or legs tied and had gunshot wounds to the head and chest, according to two witnesses.

... but Oct 7th ...

45rpm 05-04-2025 17:50
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36193713)
The announcement marks the latest intensification of Israeli operations in Gaza since Israel broke a two-month ceasefire with Hamas last month and cut off supplies of food, fuel, humanitarian aid and medicine to the 2.2mn people living in the shattered territory.

https://www.ft.com/content/ec189f74-...f-663b6f56f81b
I don't think Israel did break the ceasefire, it came to an end.

There was a ceasefire broken in a most intense, extreme and unprecedented way back in October 23. What do you think about that andrew ???????


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