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nashville 07-10-2022 13:26
Re: The energy crisis
 
I will have to put my heating on , I cannot stand the cold, So I will have to pay,

Mr K 07-10-2022 20:05
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville (Post 36136251)
I will have to put my heating on , I cannot stand the cold, So I will have to pay,
Well if you will live in Glasgow. Emigrate to Yorkshire, its still sweltering hot here, honest ;)

Paul 07-10-2022 22:33
Re: The energy crisis
 
Got an email from Bulb the other day saying they needed to increase my DD again as I was "at risk of building up debit soon".

This was clearly ridiculous, I was almost £500 in credit, and my last two monthly bills were < £200.

I dropped their support an email pointing this out and instructing them to leave the DD alone. I also asked about just paying the actual bill each month.

I was slightly shocked to get a reply at just after midnight ... :shocked:

They basically offered to refund all my credit, and change my DD to take the actual billed usage each month.

I accepted.

Taf 08-10-2022 10:34
Re: The energy crisis
 
No notification as yet from Scottish Power about the new tariffs or DD levels.

denphone 08-10-2022 10:50
Re: The energy crisis
 
We got our first payment credited on our meter this morning of £66.

RichardCoulter 08-10-2022 14:50
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36136172)
All the Guvmin has to do NOW is to unmothball the coal fired power stations and import the necessary coal that we can't *yet) mine.
The Thatcher Government closed the mines because they were uneconomical, however, after chatting to a retired miner, he says there was plenty of coal left in them and millions of pounds worth of equipment was left down there because it was cheaper than recovering it.

He said that many mines will have flooded by now, so I can't help but wonder if it was a mistake to have closed them in the first place.

The uneconomical cost of mining our own coal will be dwarfed by the now extortionate cost of energy & any loss of gas to industry.

papa smurf 08-10-2022 15:14
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36136327)
The Thatcher Government closed the mines because they were uneconomical, however, after chatting to a retired miner, he says there was plenty of coal left in them and millions of pounds worth of equipment was left down there because it was cheaper than recovering it.

He said that many mines will have flooded by now, so I can't help but wonder if it was a mistake to have closed them in the first place.

The uneconomical cost of mining our own coal will be dwarfed by the now extortionate cost of energy & any loss of gas to industry.
reserved for future use -what a woman Mrs T was.

Chris 08-10-2022 15:35
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36136327)
The Thatcher Government closed the mines because they were uneconomical, however, after chatting to a retired miner, he says there was plenty of coal left in them and millions of pounds worth of equipment was left down there because it was cheaper than recovering it.

He said that many mines will have flooded by now, so I can't help but wonder if it was a mistake to have closed them in the first place.

The uneconomical cost of mining our own coal will be dwarfed by the now extortionate cost of energy & any loss of gas to industry.
The quantity of coal and the cost of extraction are not necessarily linked. It absolutely was not a mistake to close the mines - even if they could quickly be reopened now, coal is an environmentally disastrous fuel which we should only contemplate using in a dire emergency.

This present crisis will not be severe or long-lasting enough to justify what it would have cost to keep those mines ticking over for the past 30-40 years.

Taf 08-10-2022 17:11
Re: The energy crisis
 
The miners' strikes of 72 and 74 showed that there was too much militant power they could muster. So the mines finally closed in 85, as it had been far cheaper to import coal from Poland and other places.

And yes, it did hold onto stocks we might really need at some point in the future. Sand-bed furnaces and CO2 scrubbers were not ready, but they are now.

SnoopZ 10-10-2022 15:06
Re: The energy crisis
 
Octopus are giving out free electric blankets from today to the first 10000.

Thermals and a hot water bottle is probably better though.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/fre...ilable-4006120

papa smurf 10-10-2022 15:11
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36136436)
Octopus are giving out free electric blankets from today to the first 10000.

Thermals and a hot water bottle is probably better though.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/fre...ilable-4006120
To keep customers warm through the coming power cuts:spin:

nomadking 10-10-2022 16:26
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36136218)
To set against that, the National Grid have warned that we must prepare for blackouts. If that scare is justified, we're as far up shit creek nix paddle as the other countries you've mentioned. Possibly worse because we have no gas storage facilities.
There's a big difference between "worst case scenario" and absolute certainty.
Germany and the EU are already having to reduce energy consumption.

---------- Post added at 16:26 ---------- Previous post was at 16:11 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36136327)
The Thatcher Government closed the mines because they were uneconomical, however, after chatting to a retired miner, he says there was plenty of coal left in them and millions of pounds worth of equipment was left down there because it was cheaper than recovering it.

He said that many mines will have flooded by now, so I can't help but wonder if it was a mistake to have closed them in the first place.

The uneconomical cost of mining our own coal will be dwarfed by the now extortionate cost of energy & any loss of gas to industry.
IIRC Labour closed more mines.

Hugh 10-10-2022 17:29
Re: The energy crisis
 
The only absolute certainties are death, taxes, and SWMBO giving me earache about my whisky drinking… ;)

Everything is scenario based, and if you’re prudent (and able to), cater for likelyhood X impact weighting; if, as a country, we don’t plan for the "worst case scenario" in the energy scenario, we are being failed.

nomadking 10-10-2022 17:58
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36136446)
The only absolute certainties are death, taxes, and SWMBO giving me earache about my whisky drinking… ;)

Everything is scenario based, and if you’re prudent (and able to), cater for likelyhood X impact weighting; if, as a country, we don’t plan for the "worst case scenario" in the energy scenario, we are being failed.
Germany and the EU have already cut back on their energy usage, so that was an "absolute certainty".

GrimUpNorth 10-10-2022 19:42
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36136449)
Germany and the EU have already cut back on their energy usage, so that was an "absolute certainty".
Maybe Germany and the EU are more risk averse while our government are more gung ho when looking at the same set of data.

nomadking 10-10-2022 21:39
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36136454)
Maybe Germany and the EU are more risk averse while our government are more gung ho when looking at the same set of data.
Same set of data? UK relied on 5% of it's gas from Russia, EU 40%, Germany 55%.

GrimUpNorth 11-10-2022 07:56
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36136460)
Same set of data? UK relied on 5% of it's gas from Russia, EU 40%, Germany 55%.
OK if we're being pedantic. Maybe Germany and the EU looked at their report and decided to take a risk averse approach, while in the UK maybe we looked at our report and decided to take a more gung-ho approach.

jonbxx 11-10-2022 08:39
Re: The energy crisis
 
The difference in Germany is that they do have quite large gas storage facilities which they have been filling during the summer. What they don’t want is these to empty rapidly in the winter, remembering that winters in Germany are much colder than here. Once empty, the energy suppliers will exposed to the market cost at possibly the worst time due to demand.

The energy restrictions are pretty light touch to be fair;

Quote:
- Retail stores may no longer keep their doors open throughout the day to reduce electricity consumption for air conditioning when it is hot outside — and for heating on cold winter days


- Illuminated advertising must be switched off after 10p.m., with only a few exceptions. If advertisements serve traffic safety, they remain switched on, for example, at railroad underpasses. Street lamps also remain on, and store windows may continue to be illuminated

- Monuments and other buildings may no longer be illuminated at night. At least not for purely aesthetic reasons. However, emergency lighting will not be switched off, and illumination is permitted for cultural events and public festivals.

- In public buildings, halls and corridors will generally no longer be heated, and the temperature in offices will be limited to a maximum of 19 degrees. In places where heavy physical work is performed, temperatures will be even lower in the future. However, the restrictions do not apply to social facilities such as hospitals, daycare centers, and schools, where higher air temperatures are essential for the "health of the people who spend time there," according to the Economy Ministry

- Cutting back on warm water. Likewise, in public buildings, instantaneous water heaters or hot water tanks should be switched off if they are mainly used for washing hands. Exceptions are made for medical facilities, schools, and daycare centers. Some cities go even further. There, the showers in swimming pools and sports halls will remain unheated

- Private pools may no longer be heated with gas and electricity, except for rehab centers, recreational facilities, and hotels. The new regulations will initially apply until the end of February.
From here - https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-energ...rce/a-62996041

Hugh 11-10-2022 23:29
Re: The energy crisis
 
https://www.theguardian.com/business...elivers-u-turn

Quote:
Power giants to face windfall tax after all as Liz Truss delivers U-turn

Renewable power companies will have their revenues capped in England and Wales, after the government bowed to pressure to clamp down on runaway profits.

The announcement late on Tuesday night provoked immediate accusations that Downing Street had performed “another screeching U-turn” – having previously rejected calls to impose a windfall tax on power giants.

On the leadership trail, Liz Truss repeatedly resisted calls to cap huge profits being generated by power companies, after Boris Johnson’s government imposed a £5bn windfall tax on oil and gas companies in May, taking a slice of their profits.

The business department said it was stepping in with a temporary “cost-plus revenue limit” for renewable and nuclear electricity generators in England and Wales. This will curb the amount generators can make, “allowing generators to cover their costs, plus receive an appropriate revenue”, and will come into force at the start of next year.

The detail was contained in the government’s new energy prices bill, which limits power prices for households at an average of £2,500 a year and is estimated will cost taxpayers about £89bn. It has been estimated that taxing generators such as wind and solar farms could raise between £3bn and £4bn to help offset some of this cost.

Pierre 12-10-2022 09:53
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36136541)
It's not a windfall tax though is it. This is the very thing that Chris alluded to weeks ago.

The cost of generating electricity varies in regards to the means of production. However, the price passed onto the consumer is always pegged at the most expensive.

This is just a move to redress that, and the correct think to do.

Chris 12-10-2022 10:18
Re: The energy crisis
 
Indeed … this is a bit of disappointing politicking from the Graun, who at any other time would be bleating about the absurdity of our energy market, designed as it is to pay all generators the price being demanded by whoever happens to be the most expensive (which as we all know is presently those fuelled by gas, by a country mile). The formula was intended to be a form of subsidy for renewable generators in their infancy but has become a means of profiteering thanks to the perverse (if not entirely unforseeeable) effects of the present gas price crisis.

The government’s measures are a sticking plaster, and they are indeed a ridiculous climbdown from leadership campaign pledges that obviously should never have been made, but they are not a windfall tax on renewable generators, and it helps nobody to suggest that they are.

For me, however, the single most dreadful line in the entire piece is the blatant hint at blackmail from SSE, which wants its hydro plants exempted. If they are not, SSE argues, then it might not be financially worth their while to switch them on at moments of peak demand, and there are then risks to the national grid and energy security. Translation: let us keep gouging the public or we might decide to sit back and watch the lights go off.

Despite my years of right-leaning politics, if I were a government minister in the room when that was put on the table, I’d have been presenting them with my plan to bring their business under emergency state control. And let it be known that that’s what I’d done, with all the amusing knock-on effects for their share price.

1andrew1 12-10-2022 11:23
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36136556)
It's not a windfall tax though is it. This is the very thing that Chris alluded to weeks ago.

The cost of generating electricity varies in regards to the means of production. However, the price passed onto the consumer is always pegged at the most expensive.

This is just a move to redress that, and the correct think to do.
The term comes probably from a quote from RWE but the headline writer seems to have dropped "De facto" from the description.

Quote:
RWE UK country chair Tom Glover said the measure was a “de facto ‘windfall tax’ on low-carbon generators that, if not designed and implemented correctly, could have severe negative consequences for investment in the renewable and wider energy market”.
https://www.ft.com/content/f0e1496b-...c-a2c6befffa87
"British low-carbon generators face de facto windfall tax"

---------- Post added at 11:23 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36136564)
For me, however, the single most dreadful line in the entire piece is the blatant hint at blackmail from SSE, which wants its hydro plants exempted. If they are not, SSE argues, then it might not be financially worth their while to switch them on at moments of peak demand, and there are then risks to the national grid and energy security. Translation: let us keep gouging the public or we might decide to sit back and watch the lights go off.

Despite my years of right-leaning politics, if I were a government minister in the room when that was put on the table, I’d have been presenting them with my plan to bring their business under emergency state control. And let it be known that that’s what I’d done, with all the amusing knock-on effects for their share price.
I think from the RWE quote, they're concerned less about the principle and more about the government's competence in executing it.

joglynne 12-10-2022 12:04
Re: The energy crisis
 
I feel like I'm watching a far fetched hilarious episode of Yes Minister, if only we could wake up tomorrow and find we have a competent Government in charge rather than the bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep Ministers we really have.

I guess Boris is the only one who is rubbing his hands together and laughing with glee. His past misdemeaners almost pale into insignificance considering what the country is facing to-day.

1andrew1 12-10-2022 13:44
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 36136578)
I feel like I'm watching a far fetched hilarious episode of Yes Minister, if only we could wake up tomorrow and find we have a competent Government in charge rather than the bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep Ministers we really have.

I guess Boris is the only one who is rubbing his hands together and laughing with glee. His past misdemeaners almost pale into insignificance considering what the country is facing to-day.
He delivered a $150k talking engagement in the US yesterday and has a successor who makes him look vaguely competent, so yes, all good at his end.

Hugh 12-10-2022 17:50
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36136564)
Indeed … this is a bit of disappointing politicking from the Graun, who at any other time would be bleating about the absurdity of our energy market, designed as it is to pay all generators the price being demanded by whoever happens to be the most expensive (which as we all know is presently those fuelled by gas, by a country mile). The formula was intended to be a form of subsidy for renewable generators in their infancy but has become a means of profiteering thanks to the perverse (if not entirely unforseeeable) effects of the present gas price crisis.

The government’s measures are a sticking plaster, and they are indeed a ridiculous climbdown from leadership campaign pledges that obviously should never have been made, but they are not a windfall tax on renewable generators, and it helps nobody to suggest that they are.

For me, however, the single most dreadful line in the entire piece is the blatant hint at blackmail from SSE, which wants its hydro plants exempted. If they are not, SSE argues, then it might not be financially worth their while to switch them on at moments of peak demand, and there are then risks to the national grid and energy security. Translation: let us keep gouging the public or we might decide to sit back and watch the lights go off.

Despite my years of right-leaning politics, if I were a government minister in the room when that was put on the table, I’d have been presenting them with my plan to bring their business under emergency state control. And let it be known that that’s what I’d done, with all the amusing knock-on effects for their share price.
Sounds like a windfall tax to me…

Quote:
Green power firms face windfall tax to fund lower energy bills
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...6ad4b4a8e23c52

Quote:
Ministers plan to take the vast majority of revenues such generators earn above a cap for each unit of electricity generated. The level of the cap is yet to be determined. The government said the plan had “the potential to save billions of pounds for British billpayers, while allowing generators to cover their costs, plus receive an appropriate revenue”. The money raised is expected to help fund the estimated £60 billion cost of the government’s package to subsidise energy bills for households and businesses this winter.

SnoopZ 12-10-2022 19:37
Re: The energy crisis
 
Well my heating is going to have to go on soon as I realised the washing hanging up in a bedroom isn't drying quick enough!

Chris 12-10-2022 19:40
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36136606)
Sounds like a windfall tax to me…



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...6ad4b4a8e23c52
Yes, but that designation misses an important nuance. Going after Shell or BP would be a straight up windfall tax because they have made exceptional profits at a time the market has created unexpectedly favourable conditions for them. The renewable electricity producers on the other hand are benefiting from an entirely rigged market. The rules that brought this about weren’t intended to produce these consequences, although the outcome wasn’t entirely unforseeable.

These measures are a short term fix. Hopefully meaningful market reforms will follow once adequate planning is completed.

Taf 14-10-2022 09:58
Re: The energy crisis
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63205245

SnoopZ 14-10-2022 19:03
Re: The energy crisis
 
I've been beaten, just turned the heating on low!

Taf 14-10-2022 19:36
Re: The energy crisis
 
Want a part share in a wind turbine?

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/...2NrOwemO-vlJrU

Paul 15-10-2022 13:38
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36136879)
Want a part share in a wind turbine?

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/...2NrOwemO-vlJrU
Seems an interesting idea.

Mad Max 15-10-2022 16:08
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36136874)
I've been beaten, just turned the heating on low!
Had ours on and off for over a week now, I wont be cold at home.

SnoopZ 15-10-2022 17:54
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36136979)
Had ours on and off for over a week now, I wont be cold at home.
A couple of hours this morning set to 19c warmed up the house, it not going to trip on for the evening yet as the rooms currently 21c.

Taf 15-10-2022 18:57
Re: The energy crisis
 
2 weeks since the hike in rates, and Scottish Power is yet to tell me what our new rates are, and whether I have to increase the DD.

Jaymoss 15-10-2022 19:23
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36136987)
2 weeks since the hike in rates, and Scottish Power is yet to tell me what our new rates are, and whether I have to increase the DD.
https://www2.scottishpower.co.uk/tar...execution=e1s1

if you put your info in here it will give you the rates. As a basic rule of thumb your costs will be around 25% more than they were. This is of course just estimations

tweetiepooh 17-10-2022 09:52
Re: The energy crisis
 
We put ours on after our hive temperature graph showed it permanently below 19 and dipping below 16.

1andrew1 17-10-2022 11:47
Re: The energy crisis
 
Energy support scheme cut back today by Jeremy Hunt. The price guarantee for households will only be for the vulnerable after April 2023.

SnoopZ 17-10-2022 11:55
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137150)
Energy support scheme cut back today by Jeremy Hunt. The price guarantee for households will only be for the vulnerable after April 2023.
He's saying bollocks to us. :rolleyes:

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 12:04
Re: The energy crisis
 
Hello spike in anxiety again

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 ----------

he simply can not be allowed to do this surely? I am so angry about this

jfman 17-10-2022 12:09
Re: The energy crisis
 
Political suicide from a party on life support.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 12:18
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137158)
Political suicide from a party on life support.
And no thought for the collateral damage on the way. The energy support was like a security blanket giving me the knowledge of what it was going to cost. Now they have yanked it out my hands and now I feel stupidly insecure and with my mental issues I will not settle till I know what will happen

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 12:29
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137150)
Energy support scheme cut back today by Jeremy Hunt. The price guarantee for households will only be for the vulnerable after April 2023.

I wonder if the definition of 'vulnerable' will change? to include those who are 'energy vulnerable' ?

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137160)
And no thought for the collateral damage on the way. The energy support was like a security blanket giving me the knowledge of what it was going to cost. Now they have yanked it out my hands and now I feel stupidly insecure and with my mental issues I will not settle till I know what will happen
I'm sorry that this impacts you, but it was never a security blanket was it? it was a maximum price capped per unit, if, we have a very very cold winter we could still have as individuals higher than on average energy usage pushing bills up even further

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 12:32
Re: The energy crisis
 
Calming down a little I should get support as I am on income related ESA but it is not set in stone as those of us on this benefit missed out on the Covid support when they just uplifted UC. If they do that again I doubt I will be able to pay my bills

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137164)


I'm sorry that this impacts you, but it was never a security blanket was it? it was a maximum price capped per unit, if, we have a very very cold winter we could still have as individuals higher than on average energy usage pushing bills up even further
Knowing the unit rates allow me to plan and I have learnt how to manage my energy consumption. I know pretty accurately how much electric I use each month (although I have just bought an air fryer to cut back some more) and I wrap up warm instead of turning the heating on, even if we do get a really cold winter it will only go on enough to stop the pipes freezing.

The previously expected October cap I could just about cope with. The planned January cap had me cutting back on food shopping and changing my dietary habits to cheaper foods the projected April cap (I know it was only a guesstimate at that point) had me crippled as they were saying it could have literally been 85% of my total income income. Even now it is almost 25% but the rebate cuts that back

peanut 17-10-2022 12:32
Re: The energy crisis
 
Not sure how this will affect those that came out of a fix tariff deal due to the Gov's energy promise. I bet they must be fuming and rightly so.

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 12:35
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137166)
Calming down a little I should get support as I am on income related ESA but it is not set in stone as those of us on this benefit missed out on the Covid support when they just uplifted UC. If they do that again I doubt I will be able to pay my bills

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------



Knowing the unit rates allow me to plan and I have learnt how to manage my energy consumption. I know pretty accurately how much electric I use each month (although I have just bought an air fryer to cut back some more) and I wrap up warm instead of turning the heating on, even if we do get a really cold winter it will only go on enough to stop the pipes freezing
I appreciate the explanation, if we have thirty days of temperatures below say -2 that's going to cost you more than if we have ten days of temperatures below -2

jfman 17-10-2022 12:38
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut (Post 36137168)
Not sure how this will affect those that came out of a fix tariff deal due to the Gov's energy promise. I bet they must be fuming and rightly so.
I did, and while immediately was miffed when I thought it through my bills are less than 2/3 of the fix until April. I’ll pay higher rates April to August when my fix would have ended anyway however usage will be significantly lower. I’d probably still be better off than sticking with the fix.

24 month fixes might be a bit different.

Paul 17-10-2022 19:41
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137150)
Energy support scheme cut back today by Jeremy Hunt. The price guarantee for households will only be for the vulnerable after April 2023.
In the present economic disaster, most of us are "vulnerable".

papa smurf 17-10-2022 21:33
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36137323)
In the present economic disaster, most of us are "vulnerable".
Screwed more like

Damien 17-10-2022 21:59
Re: The energy crisis
 
I think 6 months makes more sense. It gets you past the winter and then you can reassess the situation in the spring when things are warmer.

Hopefully, it gives the government time to devise a more targeted scheme as well. I like the idea of the taper which means the subsidy gets lower the more energy you use apart from people that have special requirements, i.e machines to manage a disability, which should IMO be supported entirely by the government anyway.

They should also do the windfall tax on producers, makes the policy much cheaper.

Hugh 28-10-2022 13:50
Re: The energy crisis
 
1 Attachment(s)
Just for information/discussion

Our Energy bill for late September/October last year was £107, using 441Kwh of Electricity and 772Kwh of Gas (£82 for Electricity, £25 for Gas)

The bill for the same period (just received) this year is £190, using 382Kwh of Electricity and 453Kwh of Gas (£137 for Electricity, £53 for Gas)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1666960583

So, we used 13% less Electricity and 41% less Gas, but paid 77% more…

:shocked:

papa smurf 28-10-2022 13:58
Re: The energy crisis
 
Sitting around in a big jumper and long johns sure costs a lot these days:(

Taf 28-10-2022 16:58
Re: The energy crisis
 
After 4 weeks' silence, Scottish Power has increased my DD from £152pm to £250.

My account does not show that I gave a meter reading at the end of last month, nor does it tell me the rates they are charging now.

Paul 28-10-2022 22:57
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36138700)
The bill for the same period (just received) this year is £190, using 382Kwh of Electricity and 453Kwh of Gas (£137 for Electricity, £53 for Gas)
Crikey, do you live in a hut ?
My electricity and gas use is higher than that.

Pierre 28-10-2022 23:08
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36138735)
Crikey, do you live in a hut ?
My electricity and gas use is higher than that.
Before this crisis, i wouldn’t see any change from £5K a year. For my Gas+Elec.

Hugh 28-10-2022 23:21
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36138735)
Crikey, do you live in a hut ?
My electricity and gas use is higher than that.
Four Bedroom Detached.

---------- Post added at 23:21 ---------- Previous post was at 23:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36138738)
Before this crisis, i wouldn’t see any change from £5K a year. For my Gas+Elec.
Ours was normally about £1500 for the year (gas & electricity)

SnoopZ 28-10-2022 23:27
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36138738)
Before this crisis, i wouldn’t see any change from £5K a year. For my Gas+Elec.
Why so high, are you running dozens of bitcoin miners or growing......stuff? :D

Jaymoss 28-10-2022 23:40
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36138742)
Why so high, are you running dozens of bitcoin miners or growing......stuff? :D
Before the rises 6 plants under 1600watts cost £250 a crop now you are looking at £750 to £1000 but would still clear 7K so I am told haha

joglynne 29-10-2022 09:52
Re: The energy crisis
 
Hopefully this will help the Bub customers who have been worried by the uncertainty of being without a stable supplier.
Quote:
UK government approves agreement between Bulb and Octopus Energy, providing certainty to 1.5 million customers
Quote:
snippet Bulb customers will not experience any change or disruption to their energy supplies as part of this transfer. There is no change to either Bulb or Octopus customers’ supply arrangements, and credit balances are protected. This means customers do not need to take any action and all direct debits will automatically be transferred.
and ...
Quote:
Octopus will continue to use Bulb’s technology and brand for a transitionary period so that there is a smooth transfer for Bulb’s customers. In addition, customers will continue to benefit from Ofgem’s supply licence protections, such as ensuring energy suppliers provide advice for vulnerable customers through existing financial support schemes.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...lion-customers

SnoopZ 29-10-2022 10:03
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 36138754)
Hopefully this will help the Bub customers who have been worried by the uncertainty of being without a stable supplier.


and ...


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...lion-customers
I'm a very happy Bulb customer with how it operates so I hope Octopus is the same.

joglynne 29-10-2022 10:18
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36138757)
I'm a very happy Bulb customer with how it operates so I hope Octopus is the same.
I have been with Octopus for several years and have been very satisfied by the way they operate. I even gave in and had them install the dreaded smart meters, the website details they display have been a great help in my efforts to bring down our useage over the last few months.

The smart meters themselves have been hidden away by John since I became errrrrr 'mildly' obsessed working out energy/appliance useage figures. The spreadsheet I created was impressive though. :D

SnoopZ 29-10-2022 10:23
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 36138759)
I have been with Octopus for several years and have been very satisfied by the way they operate. I even gave in and had them install the dreaded smart meters, the website details they display have been a great help in my efforts to bring down our useage over the last few months.

The smart meters themselves have been hidden away by John since I became errrrrr 'mildly' obsessed working out energy/appliance useage figures. The spreadsheet I created was impressive though. :D
Haha, I definitely don't want a Smart Meter and Bulb asked me if they should stop asking.

I wouldn't benefit from one my usage would be the same.

joglynne 29-10-2022 11:01
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36138760)
Haha, I definitely don't want a Smart Meter and Bulb asked me if they should stop asking.

I wouldn't benefit from one my usage would be the same.
We were struggling to read our meters, I was no longer up to potholing and John crawling under the stairs and my having to call in help to pull him out when he managed to get stuck finally convinced me that I had to give in and get the dang things changed. :D

SnoopZ 29-10-2022 11:03
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 36138762)
We were struggling to read our meters, I was no longer up to potholing and John crawling under the stairs and my having to call in help to pull him out when he managed to get stuck finally convinced me that I had to give in and get the dang things changed. :D
This sounds like something out of Laurel and Hardy! :D

joglynne 29-10-2022 11:30
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36138763)
This sounds like something out of Laurel and Hardy! :D
More like sketch by Little and Large. :D

---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 ----------

Just added to the Octopus site for Bulb customers.

https://octopus.energy/bulb/

SnoopZ 29-10-2022 12:14
Re: The energy crisis
 
Nothing on Bulb site yet.

Edit

Just got the email.

Jaymoss 29-10-2022 12:53
Re: The energy crisis
 
Selfish side of me does not know how I feel about this. Octopus have been quite good and stable I just hope that does not change taking on this number of extra customers. Would have liked to have seen my WHD sorted before hahaha

Paul 29-10-2022 15:37
Re: The energy crisis
 
I wasnt uncertain before this announcement, now I am. :)

Ms NTL 30-10-2022 10:55
Re: The energy crisis
 
Octopus started a rewards program for not using much electricity at peak hours, on "saving day", that will be specified the day before. There will be at most 12 "saving days" in the month The rewards are based on the consumption difference between "saving" and "non saving" days.

So the strategy will be, to put the dishwasher /washing machine etc, on at peak times on non-saving days, in order to maximize the difference..

Absolutely stupid!


Also they offered advice:

1. Switch off the lights
.
.
.
.
6 Switch the TV off. Read a book.


In the bloody dark?

nomadking 30-10-2022 12:27
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms NTL (Post 36138849)
Octopus started a rewards program for not using much electricity at peak hours, on "saving day", that will be specified the day before. There will be at most 12 "saving days" in the month The rewards are based on the consumption difference between "saving" and "non saving" days.

So the strategy will be, to put the dishwasher /washing machine etc, on at peak times on non-saving days, in order to maximize the difference..

Absolutely stupid!


Also they offered advice:

1. Switch off the lights
.
.
.
.
6 Switch the TV off. Read a book.


In the bloody dark?
When the idea was announced, I wondered how they were going to assess it.
It's at least 12 "saving sessions" and you have to sign up for each one.
Link

Quote:
There'll be at least 12 Saving Sessions this winter (but likely many more), and they'll be between one and four hours long.
Based on the grid’s performance in previous years, we’re expecting around 1 or 2 Sessions per week (so around 25 in total) lasting up to 4 hours each.
Ovo's plan works differently and you can increase your usage outside of peak hours to take advantage.
Ovo Power Move
Quote:
We have analysed customer data to determine that between 4pm - 7pm is when demand on the energy grid is highest. (Did you know that the average household uses 19% of their daily total usage during these hours?) At these times of peak demand, there’s less renewable energy to go round, and so dirtier carbon-heavy power fills the gap.
Running from 1st November 2022 - 31st March 2023, the trial rewards our customers for moving non-essential energy use to times when the grid is greener and less congested. We’re looking for participants to cut their average consumption during the peak hours to less than 12.5%.
Quote:
The trial rewards customers up to £100 in total for moving non-essential energy use to times when the grid is (on average) greener and less congested.

Paul 30-10-2022 12:30
Re: The energy crisis
 
Pretty sure these plans/offers require you to have a smart meter.

nomadking 30-10-2022 12:48
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36138856)
Pretty sure these plans/offers require you to have a smart meter.
How else are they going to know your hourly usage?
This is the bit that might catch people out.
Quote:
When we say ‘connected’, we mean we need to be getting regular half-hourly readings from your meter – specifically, we need to have received 80% of readings in the last 20 days.
People might have set their smart meters up for daily readings instead.

RichardCoulter 30-10-2022 20:58
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36138860)
How else are they going to know your hourly usage?
This is the bit that might catch people out.
People might have set their smart meters up for daily readings instead.
I wasn't aware that customers could amend how often they report back with readings!

Ms NTL 30-10-2022 21:47
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36138882)
I wasn't aware that customers could amend how often they report back with readings!
Octopus: half-hourly, Daily, monthly.

I am not sure that the transmission is encrypted, there are security concerns about it.

Paul 30-10-2022 22:45
Re: The energy crisis
 
Security concerns about meter readings ?

Go on, enlighten me as to what those security concerns are.

Hugh 30-10-2022 22:50
Re: The energy crisis
 
A couple of cyber security companies said there could be problems, but no specifics, whilst GCHQ’s Cyber Security section thinks otherwise…

A bit of research (looking at Company House accounts) show that each of the first two companies quoted in the first article have two employees…

The third quote, from a reasonably sized company (160 employees in the U.K.) says

Quote:
Chris Oakley is vice president of technical services at the cybersecurity firm Nettitude. He says: 'Occasionally, smart meters have a glitch, resulting in customers receiving erroneous bills. These issues usually get sorted out quickly, but it demonstrates that these meters are vulnerable.'
Not sure how a "glitch" shows a vulnerability?

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-burglars.html

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/information/...etering-system

Kursk 30-10-2022 22:53
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36138896)
Security concerns about meter readings ?

Go on, enlighten me as to what those security concerns are.
Is it that readings could be indicative of whether a property is occupied or not? Not definitive of course.

Paul 30-10-2022 23:12
Re: The energy crisis
 
The first article looks like typical unfounded scaremongering.
I'm not a fan of smart meters, but that article is a little ridiculous.

Most of the burglers around here would probably struggle to spell 'Smart Meter', let alone hack into one.

Ive seen no evidence anyone has done this (anywhere) and anyone clever enough to do so is unlikely to do it just so they can burgle a house.

Btw, a large number of standard meters around here can easily be accessed as long as you have the standard triangle key, so anyone can "hack" the readings (ie just open the door and read them).

tweetiepooh 31-10-2022 09:59
Re: The energy crisis
 
We run our appliances in the morning when the sun is strongest on our solar panels rather than drawing on mains regardless when power companies say is the quiet time. I'm sure that others will be in similar positions but generate most in afternoons. Yes you do burn off generated power first but you still pay "more" for excess you do burn from the mains.

Jaymoss 31-10-2022 10:57
Re: The energy crisis
 
Over 20KWH drop in electric consumption this month, it has to be the air fryer saved it and I only had it 2 weeks

spiderplant 31-10-2022 11:07
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36138914)
Over 20KWH drop in electric consumption this month, it has to be the air fryer saved it and I only had it 2 weeks
Let's hope nobody has hacked your meter or you might get burgled ;)

Jaymoss 31-10-2022 11:18
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36138916)
Let's hope nobody has hacked your meter or you might get burgled ;)
not on a smart meter anyway hahaha

Ms NTL 31-10-2022 11:23
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36138901)
The first article looks like typical unfounded scaremongering.
I'm not a fan of smart meters, but that article is a little ridiculous.

Most of the burglars around here would probably struggle to spell 'Smart Meter', let alone hack into one.

Ive seen no evidence anyone has done this (anywhere) and anyone clever enough to do so is unlikely to do it just so they can burgle a house.

Btw, a large number of standard meters around here can easily be accessed as long as you have the standard triangle key, so anyone can "hack" the readings (ie just open the door and read them).
The burglars will not write the software, and they will use it as a device. Like the car thives.

There several publications on "Smart meter Data Analysis". There is software too.

A simplistic example: The burglar needs to know whether the house is empty. Checks the data and there is activity. Was it a light switched on or off? Or just the freezer/Fridge kicked in? By analyzing the historical data you know the wattage of appliances that kick in regularly. With high probability you can tell, if it was a light or not.

Also you link those with the outside temperature (air-con kicks in, central heating), day/night time etc

If somebody has done the analysis of the house of say, a rich person, then it has an advantage.

The data on the house gadget are updated every second or so. Is the connection of the gadget with the smart meter encrypted nowadays? I dunno.

jfman 31-10-2022 12:44
Re: The energy crisis
 
I suspect any meaningful hacking of the system - if possible - would be to sabotage the whole system rather than target a house for burglary.

spiderplant 31-10-2022 13:58
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36138926)
I suspect any meaningful hacking of the system - if possible - would be to sabotage the whole system rather than target a house for burglary.
Or to reduce the bill. Which is a pretty good incentive for the companies to make sure it's secure.

Meanwhile, if you want to know if somebody is at home, there are easier ways.

jfman 31-10-2022 16:48
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36138928)
Or to reduce the bill. Which is a pretty good incentive for the companies to make sure it's secure.

Meanwhile, if you want to know if somebody is at home, there are easier ways.
Well yes :D

In my head I was stuck at nefarious third parties I forgot to include why you’d want to hack your own.

Pierre 31-10-2022 17:14
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36138937)
Well yes :D

In my head I was stuck at nefarious third parties I forgot to include why you’d want to hack your own.
Back in Thatchers Britain in Liverpool, we regularly hacked our gas and electric meters.

Sephiroth 31-10-2022 17:23
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36138941)
Back in Thatchers Britain in Liverpool, we regularly hacked our gas and electric meters.
For the electric meter, it was a single screw, as I recall.

TheDaddy 31-10-2022 17:27
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36138942)
For the electric meter, it was a single screw, as I recall.
For the 50p's...

You could wire it up to lamp posts to if you knew what you were doing, I didn't I hasten to add

jfman 31-10-2022 17:32
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36138941)
Back in Thatchers Britain in Liverpool, we regularly hacked our gas and electric meters.
Heroes. :D

Kursk 31-10-2022 17:44
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36138944)
Heroes. :D
Thieves :D

Pierre 31-10-2022 18:38
Re: The energy crisis
 
Well for electric, if you remember the old ones that had the spinning disc you could get a a very thin piece of metal through the casing that would stop the wheel from turning.

Gas was more fun, we just took the meter off and turned it around so it ran backwards. They got wise to that and put a plate on the back so you couldn’t do it.

Temp solution was to take off the meter attach the hoover to it and run it backwards, but that was too much messing about. So we acquired a 2nd meter from a derelict house and just swapped them over as and when.

Had to be done, could still be done today. But a smart meter would deny you any options.

Chris 31-10-2022 18:41
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36138952)
Well for electric, if you remember the old ones that had the spinning disc you could get a a very thin piece of metal through the casing that would stop the wheel from turning.

Gas was more fun, we just took the meter off and turned it around so it ran backwards. They got wise to that and put a plate on the back so you couldn’t do it.

Temp solution was to take off the meter attach the hoover to it and run it backwards, but that was too much messing about. So we acquired a 2nd meter from a derelict house and just swapped them over as and when.

Had to be done, could still be done today. But a smart meter would deny you any options.
You are Joey Boswell and I claim my £5 :D

Hugh 31-10-2022 18:52
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36138954)
You are Joey Boswell and I claim my £5 :D
https://media.tenor.com/images/d5b18...8bdf/tenor.gif

Ms NTL 31-10-2022 21:47
Re: The energy crisis
 
Well, the software offers the thieves a large time window opportunity to do a burglary. Of course, you can ring the bell as JW to check if it is empty

Hugh 31-10-2022 21:49
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms NTL (Post 36138970)
Well, the software offers the thieves a large time window opportunity to do a burglary. Of course, you can ring the bell as JW to check if it is empty
Do you have evidence / a link to support the assertion that the thieves can breach the software security, please?

SnoopZ 01-11-2022 09:48
Re: The energy crisis
 
Comparing my bill with Bulb for October compared to September it has increased 23%, I'll likely increase my direct debit.

Not had my Energy Support credit yet in yet, last month got it on the 1st.

tweetiepooh 01-11-2022 11:00
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36138952)
Well for electric, if you remember the old ones that had the spinning disc you could get a a very thin piece of metal through the casing that would stop the wheel from turning.

Gas was more fun, we just took the meter off and turned it around so it ran backwards. They got wise to that and put a plate on the back so you couldn’t do it.

Temp solution was to take off the meter attach the hoover to it and run it backwards, but that was too much messing about. So we acquired a 2nd meter from a derelict house and just swapped them over as and when.

Had to be done, could still be done today. But a smart meter would deny you any options.

No, it didn't have to be done. Theft is theft. And theft increases the cost to everyone else.

Pierre 01-11-2022 12:20
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36138996)
No, it didn't have to be done. Theft is theft. And theft increases the cost to everyone else.
I think the energy companies (in fact I think they were still nationalised back then) so the government, would have been able to shoulder it.

Just as if anyone was doing it now.

I think BP's shareholders could handle it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-business-live

SnoopZ 01-11-2022 12:29
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36139009)
I think the energy companies (in fact I think they were still nationalised back then) so the government, would have been able to shoulder it.

Just as if anyone was doing it now.

I think BP's shareholders could handle it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-business-live
Maybe I'll got and steal an OLED TV from a mutli millionaires house, as I'm sure they could shoulder the cost of replacing it.....

What's the difference? :rolleyes:

papa smurf 01-11-2022 12:31
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36139010)
Maybe I'll got and steal an OLED TV from a mutli millionaires house, as I'm sure they could shoulder the cost of replacing it.....

What's the difference? :rolleyes:
You wont freeze without a tv


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