Re: Coronavirus
 

The weak link will be Joe Public turning up for their second dose, assuming they remember the first. Asking people to remember 2 dates is a big ask.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m unconvinced that the difference in reporting method is statistically significant to the feelings of many individuals or Government decision making.

---------- Post added at 19:54 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------

I’m quite sure nobody is planning to distribute the vaccine against the way the manufacturers intended for it to be issued. Well, except Oxford University maybe.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I know, your last girlfriend told me

Re: Coronavirus
 

:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was thinking about the capacity issue. How many doses can be stored or transported at any one time within those specific requirements?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Given that we aren't getting that many of the Pfizer vaccine in the near future I don't see it being that much of an issue. The limitation is far more likely at the supply side than in the delivery chains. If, for example, we were getting too many to deliver to care homes etc. they'd just vaccinate NHS staff in hospitals that already have the equipment.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My GP operates with only a single partner and a couple of locums plus a practice nurse. No way will they be able to deal with these vaccinations without it have a massive detrimental impact on his already stretched services.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/...accine-rollout

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/cl...just-3-5-days/

Re: Coronavirus
 

We went for flu jabs today and ours is large practice, I was booked at in 12:30 and my wife at 12:31. They had a one way system, checking symptoms and temperatures on the way in and maybe 5 nurses working so hopefully they will be able to rattle through a good couple of 975 packs or more a day when they start the Covid vaccinations. My arm did leak quite a bit though - hope my t-shirt comes clean!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bear in mind that you can't have a covid jab within 7 days of a flu jab.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Most people will have had their flu jab long before they get any covid jab.

I had mine [flu] last Monday, and our doctors had a quick 'production line' system going.
I was in, jabbed, and out in about 2 minutes, most of that was checking my name, dob and address.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm in group 9 on the official gov list while my wife is the wrong side of 50 to make the top 10 so it'll be months until we get our invite for the vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think the problem will be As I can no longer gain access to The Pulse article here is a link to the BMA advice and support for GPs
https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-su...tion-programme

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ohhh, that's new ....

Re: Coronavirus
 

l had my flu jab done in mid October.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I suspect that only large practices will have anywhere near the space to accommodate every person who is given the vaccine being able wait in a socially distanced holding area.

I also fear that the same will apply to the Pharmacies that the NHS were hoping to rope into the Vaccination process.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Our surgery is not really build for this type of programme so much so l had to go to another practice in the same medical group to have the flu jab done.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Where has it been stated that every GP and every Pharmacy was going to carry them out?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't believe that every GP Practice was every expeceted to be directly envolved with the actual vaccinations but the changes made to how the vaccination process will now have to accommodate the additional need to keep people on site for an additional 15 minutes will, IMHO, have a drastic knock on effect to the plans of how many vaccination will be possible and which locations can be used.

My old practice had 17 GPs and a raft of pratice nurses with the scope to carry our a lot of vaccinations if they could be handled in the same way as this years FLU vaccinations. Even though they could implement a one way system there is no way they would have the space needed to accodate, or deal with, high volumes of covid vaccination recipitants in any waiting areas, socially distanced, for 15 minutes.

The process to set up a collaboration between practices can be seen here:-

https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavir...ber-2020-1.pdf

and here:-

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...-dec-2020.docx

Re: Coronavirus
 

I know that we are all more concerned about the effectivness of what ever vaccine we will be offered but I thought the following article was interesting as great swathes of the world will have to seriously consider whether they can even afford to buy the vaccines.

The Cost Per Jab Of Covid-19 Vaccine Candidates. by Statista. 1st December 2020

https://www.statista.com/chart/23658...d-19-vaccines/

Re: Coronavirus
 

Chancellor Angela Merkel said she and the governors of Germany's 16 states agreed today to step up the country's lockdown measures from December 16 to January 10 to stop the spread of covid-19.

Germany recorded 20,200 new cases and 321 additional deaths on Saturday (84 million population). The UK recorded 18,447 new cases and 144 additional deaths (68 million population).

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's not a competition old chap ! Our figures are always down at the weekend, many don't get recorded till Monday.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

It was just to show that the UK's "management" of covid is not unique in seeming out of control.

The UK figures rise and fall on a 7 day cycle as certain areas report on different schedules (hence a nightmare for the statisticians).

This is a graph of the UK's recent daily covid19 deaths. Notice the 7 day "M" shape of the figures.

Re: Coronavirus
 

London, Essex and Hertfordshire moving into Tier 3 at 00.01 on Wednesday.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55299653

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well now that London is impacted i am suddenly not sure this tier system is a great idea....

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's going to be a bit of a contrast with everywhere closed but lots of household mixing over Christmas. Not that it would be practical to prevent Christmas gatherings though.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well lets face it London had special treatment by not going into tier 3, must have been some interesting figure fiddling going on to achieve that, any way enjoy;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Expect plenty of hospitality businesses to go under. Christmas is their busiest time ahead of a lean period after New Year.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Health Secretary Matt Hancock also revealed that a new variant of coronavirus has been found.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55308211

Re: Coronavirus
 

Three Rivers Tier 3 (from Wednesday) checking in *sigh*

Oh well, scrubbed any Christmas get together anyway...

Re: Coronavirus
 

London/South/South East still needing to be special...

---------- Post added at 17:04 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------


Enjoy !!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Interesting snippet on a news article about the vaccine rollout ;

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...droidApp_Other

Wonder if this Govt will take any notice? Answers on a postcard....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Utter garbage.
Men in general were more affected than women, where does that come into it. Twice as much, across all groups. Iran was badly affected, including senior government officials. The richer Northern part of Italy was affected more than the poorer South. In the UK hospital consultants not exactly on poverty pay were badly affected. In the UK and the US, Hasidic/Orthodox Jews were badly affected.

The biggest factor was people's behaviour, particularly of still insisting on gathering in large groups.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s not an either/or situation - both scenarios can be valid.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The assumption of this nonsense report is that there were no other factors. Hasidic/Orthodox Jews are an obvious publicised example(eg New York) of people still gathering in large groups. There have been several documented instances from around the world, where there have been multiple infections and deaths arising from large gatherings, especially religious ones(of whatever religion).

Re: Coronavirus
 

But they still crucify the hospitality sector with precious little evidence that that will tame the spread. :shrug:

Re: Coronavirus
 

The two prominent Medical Journals say the United Kingdom should ban Christmas household mixing.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d&cmpId=google

l absolutely agree as relaxing social-distancing rules for five days over Christmas to allow Christmas household mixing is a recipe for disaster.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Governmnt know full well that people would just ignore such a ban.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Then those who do should accept the possible consequences of their actions as the virus won't be taking a 5 day Christmas holiday that is for sure..

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well something is spreading it.:rolleyes:
Several documented examples of where gatherings of one sort or another has led to infections and deaths amongst that gathering. Another big part of the problem is "give people an inch and they will take a mile". Allow small gatherings and that morphs into gatherings of 100 or more.:mad:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe it's time to do away with Christmas altogether, apart from a minority it's nothing to do with religion, just an excuse to throw money around trying to impress people. :D

Anyway, if people want to isolate they will do, if they don't want to isolate you'll be hard pushed to prevent it . . . :p:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Clearly NOT hospitality. IIRC 38% of cases are at Uni's and another 38% related to schools.

Re: Coronavirus
 

1) Closing them didn't stop it.
2) How are they not similar to any other sort of gathering?:rolleyes: They are premises being targeted for testing, so of course you're going to find more cases.
3) Which nonsense report are you using?
4) How and where did the students get it from?
5) Are people at University and Teachers at schools not going anywhere else?

Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly the point I'm making: It's spreading in other ways and to destroy pubs, restaurants, jobs and livelihoods on a whim is very misguided IMO.

People have just stopped socially distancing outside covid secure venues especially now they're wearing masks and think they're invulnerable. They're all over each other especially teenagers.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Its not just teenagers though as l have witnessed quite a few older people with the same type of attitude as well.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The report does touch on proximity to others in the work place and there is a correlation between COVID death rate and how close you are to others. There is also a correlation between income and overcrowding in the home. Finally, there is a correlation between deprivation percentile and COVID mortality.

Picking up on the Hasidic Jew thing, you can see Jewish men have a pretty high mortality risk.

For what it's looking at, the report seems pretty compelling to me.

Check out section 8a for how much booze and drugs we got through during the first lockdown BTW. White male pensioners with degrees really going for it on the booze! :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I have no doubt you could find all sorts of correlations, eg being a Labour voter.
Hasidic Jews routinely have large gatherings for one thing or another. The stories from New York demonstrated that.
The outbreak occurred BEFORE any lockdowns and behaviour associated with it. The doubling of risk for men was across all racial groups.
The aim is to restrict spreading BETWEEN DIFFERENT households.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wonder if you even bothered to read the report before trashing it.

I suspect you don’t have evidence to justify discounting it so thoroughly, nor for insisting on your own no doubt exhaustive study of the data. Though having asked I imagine you’re now going to post me a ton of tangentially related links, with minimal interpretive input from your good self.

To the report: it has been recognised from quite an early stage that *mortality* (which what’s at issue here, not mere transmission) is affected by a number of factors. Respiratory health is one such factor, age is another (I suspect that’s a combination of respiratory health plus weaker immune response). However the issue affecting hospital staff, even the young-ish, healthy consultants, is viral load. If you get a big initial dose of virus particles then it multiplies in your body that much faster and your immune system struggles to cope. Viral load is also a major contributor to *mortality* in low income households which are statistically more likely to be living in smaller dwellings, and are more likely to be living in chaotic circumstances where household hygiene is more difficult to maintain.

Re: Coronavirus
 

and why not, waited 65 years to be able to get pi$$ed every evening without the hassle of work the next day :D

. . . well not too pi$$ed on my pension & bills, but it's the thought that counts ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Our Jewish friends are specifically mentioned in the report;

The report does highlight the differences in mortality between men and women all the way through the relevant chapters. Interestingly, the correlation between deprivation and sex seems much much stronger for men than women (figure 2.4)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I am finding that by making it clear that I wish to maintain the two metre distance, that nearly everyone respects my obvious desire to do so.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Depends how depraved you want your sex.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why are we so obsessed about poxy Christmas? Best to give it a miss and see our relatives next year, alive.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They will be alive regardless.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not necessarily

Re: Coronavirus
 

:tu:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Agreed! If I was in charge (luckily for all you of that I'm not) I would float the idea of an extra bank holiday tagged on to Easter, May or Whitsun bank holidays saying 'here's the deal, keep your heads down now while things are rough and we can have Christmas 2.0 later when thing get better'

Re: Coronavirus
 

It might not mean much to you sat at home with your worthers originals, but Christmas is a big thing in the Pierre house hold and we'll be celebrating it as normal with in-laws, regardless.

We have cancelled the extended family and friends day we usually have. But other-wise we'll be having close family and friends as normal.

Everyone's agreed to isolate for a few days before.

We are certainly not cancelling christmas.

Re: Coronavirus
 

+1

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is complete nonsense and psychological warfare. People are starting to sound like a friend who suffers from OCD and becomes unable to leave the house for fear of robbers.

The rules are already incredibly harsh for the risk present.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As Boris said some weeks ago, If he didn't create the Christmas Bubble rules people would simply ignore him.

People have made decisions with a financial implication based on what the government have said, That could be travel costs, food orders etc.

More and more of the population aren't willing to listen to the government guidance, rules, laws whatever you want to call them. Anymore.

Re: Coronavirus
 

+2. Patience and common sense is a virtue unfortunately not shared by all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exasperation is shared by more and more it would appear..

NB: I'm not saying I agree with those that choose to break the rules, merely playing devils advocate.

Re: Coronavirus
 

virtue signaling
the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.



Still happening here Turkey dinner for 14 and enough booze to last 5 days:)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Virtue signalling my ass as its a case of putting clear common sense before deliberate ignorance.

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 ----------

If it affects one or more of their family or relatives they might be thinking rather differently then..

Re: Coronavirus
 

Has to be better than selfish signalling - since when did not wanting to infect others with a potentially deadly disease become something to be mocked?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The levels of hysteria on CF (and if it is any reflection, the wider population) at the moment are beyond laughable and bordering on psychosis.

Seeing a few friends and family over Christmas will not harm anyone and will probably do everybody good.

Take precautions act sensibly. Enjoy yourself, Don't worry.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My dad and I were going to go to my sisters as usual, but to protect my dad she cancelled, so I have to cook a Christmas dinner by myself (I used to help my mum).

She didn't want to cancel, but she doesn't want to lose him as well as our mum.

I said on a FB group, I hope Boris does cancel as it will make her feel less guilt,

Boy did I get abuse from some Covidiots.

I popped in to my local supermarket to get a loaf and other bits, and the number of people not wearing them out numbered those wearing them.

I cut this to 2 things and left pronto.

Sadly this minority is annoying as if you challenge them (online), you are called a sheep and bully.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Depends if they are elderly or vulnerable friends really doesn't it ? Nothing wrong with a phone call, or waving through a window.

Hopefully in a few months the most vulnerable will have been vaccinated. Its just stupid to take an unnecessary risk before then.

Re: Coronavirus
 

and if they are elderly/ vulnerable/ at risk... then they should rightly shield and their family look after them best they can whilst they shield.

For the vast majority of people, they should take sensible precautions spend time with the friends and family they are allowed to, be sensible, have fun and enjoy your Christmas.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:tu:

Re: Coronavirus
 

The setting of "seeing a few friends and family" is the exact scenario where taking precautions and acting sensibly are at their lowest level.

Close interactions in an enclosed space is not good. Is everybody going to be socially distanced and wearing masks in that situation?:rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

You can self isolate before and after. You can keep vulnerable people away. You can ventilate the house.

Re: Coronavirus
 

When did following Government guidelines become "selfish signalling" was it when you mounted your high horse and clip clopped up to the moral high ground for yet another drivel based sermon, just asking for a friend who want's to come to xmas lunch without being vilified by the morality police.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Call it V-day after vaccination. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

So only households that have had no contact with anybody else for 2 weeks, are allowed to meet up? Bit of a limited scenario.
It's not just about vulnerable people being present, it's about spreading of the virus where at another time and place, it will infect a vulnerable person.
Ventilating the building isn't going to make much of a difference to people who are at close quarters to one another.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That sounds a bit 1940s.
will there be spitfires and wellington bombers flying over head and an end to rationing?

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's a very wide spread scenario. I've been in the same house for months doing a full time job and looking after a mentally ill person and an energetic toddler. Literally the only break I get is if people visit. Which has been forbidden for months.

These people are cruel sadistic demons and I will not forget this.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well done you, I expect all your family are immune then so don't worry about passing anything on to others.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thanks for that, enjoy your xmas.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

What planet are you on? We're going to be sitting around a table eating bloody turkey!

My dining table isn't big enough to socially distance.

Sensible precautions will be taken before they arrive.

---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:21 ----------

and that is relevant how?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Like what ? Perspex partitions between chairs or maybe some mouthwash gargle before the festive Twister game.
If one person has it on the way in there will very likely be more with it on the way out.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Perhaps because people mourn those deaths as a senseless loss, Yet the equivalent number of covid or covid related deaths are dismissed


EDIT: I'd also like to know what you define as sensible precautions?

Will you be

a) asking them to provide evidence of a negative test before entry?
b) temperature scanning people on entry to your house?
c) asking people to self isolate/quarantine for the required ten days before attending your house?
d) Asking people to wear masks whilst inside your house?
e) maintain social distancing whilst guests are in your home but not at your table


Genuinely interested to know

Re: Coronavirus
 

Despite the continued hype, the chances of anyone catching it are still small, and the chance of dying is really small.
If your under 60 its really really small, your just as likely to die from one of many other causes.

Deaths so far are 0.097% of the population, and only 5% of those were under 60 (so 0.0049 %).

In total, there were 12,303 deaths across England and Wales in the week ending 4 December 2020, of which 23.0% involved COVID-19. [* ONS]

The British Heart Foundation reported not long ago that deaths from heart and circulatory diseases alone have risen by almost 5,000 this year. Partly because of the fear instilled into people, making them delay getting treatment (as well as the actual delays getting to see a doctor).

Those that dont like christmas can go hide in the corner and sulk, good riddance.
I love it, I intend to enjoy it, and I have no time for doom mongers trying their best to spoil it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one, he said ...

:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Like isolating for a few days, not coming if they have symptoms or have been with in contact with someone that has had symptoms.

Not rocket science. Just what sensible people that aren't scared of their own shadow will do.

Instead cowering alone behind a curtain waiting for the world to end.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You obviously haven't worked 10 hour shifts on a Covid ward like two of my family members have. Plenty of under 60's on there who thought it was nothing to worry about. Nothing to do with cowering, more about a little bit of patience, common sense and some consideration for others if not for yourself.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There's some real BS on here at the moment, but I'll humour you.

No, no need. ( BTW My school hasn't asked for a negative test for my kids to attend.)

That would come under "showing symptoms" header

That requirement is only if you have had symptoms or been in close contact with some that has had symptoms.

There is no such requirement for visiting people or people visiting. but I have requested 3days which is above and beyond what is currently required.

we're not a shop, so there is no such requirement

That is brilliant, quite brilliant. This is where the country is at the moment. If you can't see the rank stupidity in that sentence......well. Or are you just taking the piss for a laugh?

---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------

You're right I haven't, and neither have you.

I didn't say it wasn't anything to worry about.

As I said I will be taking reasonable precautions.

I am using common sense and I haven't invited anyone else that I don't know that I have to consider.

---------- Post added at 16:38 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

you're right I haven't, and neither have you.

I didn't say it was nothing to worry and I'm taking sensible precautions

I am using common sense, and I've not invited any strangers to consider.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But still they come!... ;)

---------- Post added at 16:47 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------

Touched a nerve?

I didn't mention you, but anyway, I can't believe what you said...






(that you have a friend... :D )

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was referring to unfortunate strangers who come in to contact with your guests at a later date.


So if someone who rolls up to your place is asymptomatic for the virus which of your "sensible precautions" are going to prevent them from infecting others in your house and then strangers further afield.


I'm sure you'll have a watertight plan and you could maybe pass the info on to the medical authorities.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Personally, if my elderly parents, one of whom is very much in the vulnerable category, got infected with this disease due to my actions, I would be mortified. With my kids being in school, the chances of it hanging around are higher than many so it's Teams calls for now until this all dies down through isolation or vaccination.

The chances of getting infected are low but the consequences of an infection are high so I will give it a miss for now. If others want to take chances, it's their prerogative as long as they are willing to accept the consequences if things do go wrong

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

One in five or even one in eight is very high risk. A 1% risk is considered high when looking at mortality rates for operations, illnesses etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

my guests are all very sensible.


What if my wife is asymptomatic, what if my kids are? Should I lock them out just in case?

Are you telling me you let family members into you house and you don’t know if they’re asymptomatic ? That’s very irresponsible of you.


Who are the medical “authorities”?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The danger with this virus is those that contract it with no symptoms. However they can still pass it on to a vulnerable person. If mass testing ever got off the ground we could maybe be more confident. However a lot has been promised and not delivered.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Clearly you're in a bubble with the immediate family so what happens happens, all in it together to quote an old favourite. :rolleyes:



The medical authorities are any of the health services who can gain valuable knowledge from your expertise in these matters.