Re: Brexit discussion
 

A lot of it was a storm in a teacup created by our clearly independent media..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Quite. Like most people I know I couldn't care less what colour our passport is but let's not let that stop some people claiming it's what Brexit was all about eh?...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Who's claiming that? You're not, Mick isn't, I'm not, Mr K isn't, Denphone isn't

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Oh look yet more bad news all down to Brexit:

https://order-order.com/2018/01/05/d...double-whammy/

How long can the UK survive without becoming Corbyn's Venezuela? :shrug:


:D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Oh good another Order Order link/ Corbyn/ Venezuela reference (whatever the subject) !

Happy new year , seems very similar to last year so far !

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Just wait until 2019. Year of Brexit. Can't wait until we are out of that pile of garbage corruption club. ;)

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Yep and it's quite clear that some people will dispute facts when it suits yet come up with all sorts of anecdotal 'evidence' and other nonsense to support their views. It's a form of denial really and I guess it keeps them happy. :D

Oh look London's on the verge of collapse...

http://www.cityam.com/278258/londons...n-2017-venture

Due to Brexit of course... :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You really should read these articles before linking to them old chap.

Stick to 'Order Order', you're on safe ground there...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

How are we ever going to survive outside the centre of the universe?... We're all doomed... The UK's going to become a banana republic... :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's better than listening to the sour grapes, though lately it's become just 'noise', that can be easily ignored. Especially if it's Tony Blair or Andrew Adonis. :p:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

#awks

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Source

So much for remoaners prediction of money making a exodus to the EU. Another myth busted.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yep it's mostly the same tired old guff from the same tired old people who reckon they're democrats but won't accept the referendum outcome and will do almost anything to reverse it. That's the true test of their belief in democracy. Anyway, it's become just so much white noise now which they generate to make themselves feel better. Meanwhile the UK moves on in the right direction and they continue with their even less credible predictions of imminent doom. Sad really...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I see that a group of MEP's have written a letter asking if they can keep their snouts in the trough, and wanting that master of reality Tony Blair to join the discussions. They also say voters should have chance of a rethink . .

We should remember these names for future reference LOL

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...0-british-meps

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You can add Nigel Farage to 'ze list' of 'traitors', who is quite happy to claim his £73k EU pension.

He's what I'd call a 'nasty hypocrite' ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Staying in the single market doesn't preserve the MEPs' jobs. It does help preserve their constituents' jobs though.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well the likes of Blair, Clegg et al think they know best and want to give the public as many chances as they need to come to the right conclusion i.e. stay within the EU. You can bet that if there was another vote and the result was just as close but in the other direction they'd not be demanding a best of 3 vote as an end to the matter. No, at that point they'd have got their way and would very rapidly ensure that nothing like Brexit could ever happen again. No more votes, no more chances to consider the ramifications...
These people are the most hideous shameless hypocrites and they know all too well about the gravy train...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Is this more or less hypocritical than people who profess to hate the EU and want to leave while happily taking money from the EU - Nigel Farage and Paul Dacre for example.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Not really busted, who actually believed they'd go, people are quick to point out that no one believed lies on a side of a bus then why would they believe this, I've said on here loads of times when HSBC start making demands and threatening to leave call their bluff, if they think they can attract the best to some Singapore back water over London then go ahead and try.

My concern with investment is once we leave the lack of regulation might mean we are involved in a very unpleasant race to the bottom which obviously won't benefit the little people but will of course mean the few at the top do very nicely, it's worth keeping an eye on whose funding these groups and think tanks promoting a post brexit utopia and working out what they have to gain. Just my opinion of course but then I don't trust any of them.

It's okay, some one will be along to expose him as such soon

Re: Brexit discussion
 

HSBC have said they will move 1,000 people to Paris in the event of no deal for financial services. We shall have to see if this happens. Obviously, numbers depend on whether a deal can be struck with the EU. What is also apparent is we have bought more time through the transition period.

Only Venezuelan-loving lefties and feeble-minded centrists can be exposed, the right has no hypocrites in its ranks. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Is it more or less hypocritical than the Labour party and the Guardian taking advantage of offshore tax arrangements when whining on ad nauseam about Tories doing it?

You see we've long been fed a diet of hatred aimed at rich Tory fat cats avoiding tax and living champagne lifestyles etc. but there are plenty of Champagne socialists who're just as bad only they claim to be better. I know which are the biggest hypocrites and they come in red I'm afraid.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But you just effectively said they're all as bad as each other (many would agree). Yet you only see fit to expose those 'in red' or give us lovely links from the balanced 'order-order'.

'Hypocrite' is definitely the word, you're right there ! :rolleyes:.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Hypocrites whose politics I disagree with - bad
Hypocrites whose politics I agree/align with - ssh, move along, nothing to see here.

I think any of us would struggle to find politicians or media outlets beyond all reproach. It’s the same as trying to find a party whose policies you would agree with 100% It’s picking the ‘least bad’ option.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Whether people are hypocrites or not Half of British voters believe Prime Minister Theresa May is incapable of getting the right Brexit deal for this country.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...KBN1EX1ZR?il=0

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Polls are bollocks.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Racist. Some of my best friends are Poles.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

l suppose they are if one disagrees with them..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You have no friends; don't talk bollocks ;)
Nope. They are just bollocks.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Theresa May has had one blinder of a day in her cabinet reshuffle. She will get us a great Brexit deal in the same way that she got Justine Greening to work at the DWP and Jeremy Hunt to work at the Department for Business. This poll is fake news! :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

A reshuffle is not like a deck of cards. It is a grown up affair with senior ministers given the chance to reassert their case.

I think you (we) will be surprised at the deal ultimately secured given the hourly negativity.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Hardly a surprise that a poll on effectively remain / leave would split 50 / 50.

It isn't possible to get the interviewee's to distinguish it from a good or bad effort at dealing with the EU.

It's the same as asking whether any Tory department is doing well or badly. The result will just be reflecting which party the interviewee supports.

As said such polls are a load of bull.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Source

Some useful pressure in the right direction.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

As I've mentioned before, the local Cypriots I spoke to would love to be shot of the Euro but their government doesn't. And as part of the Commonwealth many rights of expat Brits were present before Cyprus joined the EU.

There are too many people on both sides with vested interests who just don't want to listen or compromise or work out the best way forward.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I like the way The Sun reports minor or obvious statements as 'blows' to Remainers. :D

---------- Post added at 12:46 ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 ----------

A leaked letter shows David Davies is considering taking the EU to court over their preparation for a no deal scenario: https://www.ft.com/content/7306b972-...7-5465a6ce1a00

https://www.ft.com/content/7306b972-...7-5465a6ce1a00

In particular it seems that he is objecting to the EU giving advice that Britain would be a 'third' country in relation to the EU in the event of no deal and that this advice is jeopardising contracts and businesses in the UK.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

A recent crossword clue was "arsemoner" (anag.) :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Love the comments underneath the FT article. In particular this one:
It wasn't long ago that Theresa May was arguing that no deal was better than a bad deal. This letter shows the government now acknowledges this is not the case.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

As FT subscribers are in the minority here why don't you and Damien open your own FT thread.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm not a subscriber, it worked I guess because I opened from google.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I appreciate that it's previously been mentioned, but it's probably worth repeating.

You can currently access three free articles a day from the FT when searching the headlines via Google and other search engines.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8152006.html
Silly Billys... Still, nice hamper, apart from the disgusting Marmite ! :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Biography of Churchill who campaigned for a united states of Europe in there as well. Gin was Dutch originally too.

That told ‘em

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Lol, what muppets! Did they employ the same researcher who checked out Toby Young's background when they compiled the hamper? ;)

Though 10/10 for the contents including the delicious Marmite. ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

well well well even Farage calling for second referendum now


Sky News‏
Verified account

@SkyNews
Following
Following @SkyNews

Nigel Farage: We should have a second referendum on Brexit

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-far...rexit-11203281

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Someone is worried he is fading out of the spotlight...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There is certainly case for a vote on the final deal, as none of us know what it contains or might entail.

As for Farage, think Damien has go it spot on. He's still outraged at not getting a knighthood.....

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Source

So no protracted trade talks lasting years then as we were confidently predicted by the remoaners. Another myth busted.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Source = 'the Sun'. I've learnt that now ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

This offer was known ages ago. We said to countries that we indeed to keep the existing trade deals if they would agree but we have no idea if those countries would accept those terms. Remember they agreed trade deals with the EU and each side made concessions that the EU in mind.

It would be great if we could just inherit existing trade deals but there are a number of reasons to be skeptical. If Canada for example made concessions based on the fact they could sell Maple Syrup to 500 million possible customers they might not make the same concessions to a population of 65 possible customers. Also there isn't a thing called a rolled over trade deal. These would have to be new deals based on current agreements and reapproved by their respective parliaments.

This article doesn't say these deals have been agreed, in fact they specifically say they haven't, but that this guy is claiming some people (who?) from same nations (which ones?) have expressed an interest. The Sun is making out this is a done deal as if all the barriers to such a process didn't exist and could be decided by some people some guy spoke too.

---------- Post added at 11:12 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

There are no senior people in the Brexit camp that think this is a good idea. He wants to stir demons up and throw himself into the middle of it all.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I used to use "Linky" :D

But you don't know how to construct it though. ;)

When the news is quoted from senior government figures that's usually factual enough even in the Sun.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Personally I'd think better of Farage if he resigned as MEP and forswore the pension he's going to receive from the EU. But he's so good at accusing others of hypocrisy and failing to see it in himself.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

When you have a ego as big as his what else do you expect.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The quote is probably correct, the spin from it is not.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yep the media has learned how to spin just as much as politician's nowadays.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42649214

Hmm! I wonder?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

He knows it won't happen but needs more attention.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

He and Blair are carved from the same block of stone.

---------- Post added at 13:32 ---------- Previous post was at 13:31 ----------

Agreed. I think most have people have learnt this about the tabloids by now.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

At least the Sun is positive about good news for Brexit unlike the relentless negativity of the BBC that always preceded good economic news with "Despite Brexit"

All the mass media indulge in spin. It's par for the course.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The Sun might be positive about stuff because it makes it up or simply repeats good news.
If you're after a publication that reinforces your views and has strong sports coverage then it's a good read. It won't inform you in the same way that The Guardian or Telegraph will do despite their prejudices.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

This wasn't really good or bad news. It was a remark presented as a done deal. Anyone reading that article would think the UK had suddenly arranged a bunch of trade deals.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don't blame the readers (we all lead busy lives) but it's disappointing that The Sun is still publishing what is in effect fake news and people are believing it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

you know that and truth don't go together right

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Hillsborough proved that to many people. But as we saw in post 1548, people are still being deceived by The Sun through no fault of their own.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Especially if it’s written in the guardian as well..... :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes, and no.

Yes, Senior government figures are in the best position to report the facts on what the government is doing, but you have to remember that they may also be slightly desperate to make the government is doing something.

My reading of this is those countries have indicated an interest in talking about matching the existing agreements. That does not mean they have agreed to match the existing agreements, just that they want to talk about it.

That is not the same thing as keeping the existing agreements at all.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

And many others as one knows only too well..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Spot on, but as usual the lefties and over sensitive types, choose to be one sided as usual Den. :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 10:49 ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 ----------

Rubbish, you cannot have it both ways. A quote is a quote by a political figure FFS. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You apparently missed the point of my post.

I wasn't actually talking about any specific quote when I said "Yes and No". I was answering "When the news is quoted from senior government figures that's usually factual enough even in the Sun.". You can quote someone word for word, but if the facts they quote are not accurate or are misleading, the facts you quote will either not be accurate or will be misleading. The government frequently does this on all subjects.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I missed no such thing. I got your post and I disagree because it’s lobsided rubbish. A quote is a quote.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No one is disputing the quote. Just that a quote means we have trade deals already sorted, it doesn't. The bills need to be created and passed in their respective parliaments.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think what he's saying is that chucking a random quote into an article doesn't make the rest of the article factually correct.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Sigh.

A quote is a quote!

How many more times do I have to repeat myself? :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That's not the question so why do you keep repeating yourself?
Are you saying that you can make a fake news article in The Sun correct by adding in a random quote?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

4th time. A quote is a quote! It is not hard. Crikey is it a slow day on here or what ?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No one is saying it isn't a quote. :confused:

We're saying the conclusions drawn from that quote are incorrect.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The pound is reaching it's highest level since Brexit after a story that Spain and Holland will team up to help ensure a soft-Brexit for Britain: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ft-brexit-deal

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Let's hope the UK Government is up for a soft Brexit too and can sort out the Gibraltar situation whose residents voted 96% to remain in the EU.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes. Thank God someone understood.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Everybody knows that - the UK can't negotiate any trade deals while we're still in the UK. What can be done is certain 'exploratory' discussions.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

In other news, the Goverment has implemented the EU payment service directive 2. This includes the abolition of credit card charges. Theresa Mays Twitter feed somehow didn’t mention This was an EU initiative - https://mobile.twitter.com/theresa_m...08358668038146

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well there's a surprise ! Probably just an oversight. TM is a remainer at heart but has to keep the loons happy.

If it happens this Brexit is going to be so soft it might as well not have. It's still going to cost shedloads, which is the tragedy.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

If we're in the single market (as Iceland is) we can negotiate and sign deals with other countries. Sky News informed a Brexit Tory politician of this fact recently.
https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views...rexit-11208575

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No it isn’t and you have been told to stop using the term loons!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Maybe Mr K is concerned what north american birds think about Brexit.

Just checking though - 'Loon' is bad but 'corrupt imbecile' is OK?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Corrupt imbecile has not been aimed at any members and if you don’t mind, next time you have a team query, use the Private message facility.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I apologise, I didn't know it was a moderators message, I thought those were in bold

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Source

A bit more like it. Some backbone.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I see Ken Clarke keeps his audience riveted as he drones on about the wonderful EU:

http://www.cableforum.uk/board/attac...5&d=1516198257

:D

Attachment 27215

Re: Brexit discussion
 

European Withdrawal Bill passes in the House of Commons. Yay: 324 to 295 No.

Now on to the Lords where it's expected to get further amendments added. Labour clearly voted against, very obvious that cretinous anti-democratic party could not be trusted to respect the referendum decision on 23rd June 2016.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Maybe they were just exercising their democratic right and representing the 48%. Hardly 'cretinous'.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

52% beats 48%. Over a million majority. (Not small) There was one rule, the majority vote decided we're leaving.

A lot of Brexiteers voted for Labour in the Election last year, they had a Manifesto in which they were clearly a Brexit supporting party and yet, here they are, completely ignoring their Manifesto and voting against the Bill.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Labour didn't vote against it because of a binary yes or no to Brexit question. They voted against the bill it because they felt it failed to protect people's human rights.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So there's quite a few cretinous anti-democratic MP's from other parties too?

Cheers

Dave

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You have to be careful not to give the Government carte blanche on anything so long as it's connected to, or they attempt to connect to, Brexit. The vote was to leave the European Union and not to suspend Parliamentary democracy. People voting against bills in Parliament with which they disagree, especially when that is the opposition opposing the government, is literally not anti-democratic.

Anyway we've agreed to pay an extra £44 million to secure the border as Calais.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42723401

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Indeed there is but alas that does not quite suit their political views.;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's an interesting political point where MPs are getting pulled in three directions now;

• The referendum result
• Their parties whip
• Their constituents wishes

It really lays bare the question of who does an MP represent in Parliament? If you go fail to represent your constituents wishes, are you doing your job?

My local MP was a remain campaigner. I had a fun meeting with him and our somewhat robust Liberal Democrat leader of the local council before the vote. However, since the result, he toes the party line and is now Justice Secretary. Luckily for him, our local result matched the national one to within 1%...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's an interesting dilemma if an MP is staunch supporter of one cause yet their constituents voted solidly the other way. Especially if their opponents at the next election were in tune with the constituents.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Not sure if the mapping for Brexit votes per constituency maps with the Party voting in a General/By-election. Not sure if we will ever know, as in my case, we only got results for Leeds as a whole, not by constituency.

Some die-hard Tories were Remainers, and would never vote Labour, and some die-hard Labourites voted to Leave, but would never vote Tory.

Anyhoo, I always believed that the MP should represent all of their constituency, not just the people that voted for them.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

True, but they might decide to stay at home instead.