Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

If we ever issue Article 50. I think think the Government want to stall as long as possible and ease into a EEA type thing.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

El Gov has said very little about what it wants Brexit to look like so far, however the one thing May has been clear about is that immigration control is of paramount importance. There will be no unrestricted free movement of people in post-EU Britain. There is of course still wriggle room there; free movement of people and free movement of labour is not quite the same thing. However it is different enough to make off-the-shelf membership of the EEA impossible.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Welcome to Twitter, Brexit department.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2016/09/14.jpg

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The worse things get in the EU/Eurozone, the greater the pressure on them to negotiate some sort of reasonable agreement I'd have thought, even if the telling pressure on the Eurocrats comes from big business who won't want t have their exports to the UK further hindered.

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An English England, a British Britain isn't good enough, next the Cornish will want a Cornish Cornwall, a manish man, and a sexy Essex

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Sneer all you want, but as Igni noted, our economy is primarily service based now. We've yet to be told the impact on services.

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Yes we all know that. Who's claiming everything's perfect? Our economy has been mainly service based for decades and Brexit isn't going to change that in a hurry but, given the unending diet of pure doom we were fed up until June, there really isn't anything wrong with pointing out some of the positives which are resulting from the lower pound such as exports and tourism.

I don't know if you think I somehow believe Brexit is the cure for all our ills but just for the record I don't and never have. Our economic problems are huge and Brexit won't be a panacea but, in my opinion, it's a better option that remaining in a dysfunctional club and we will see some benefits - something many 'remainers' never seemed able to accept. Many problems lie ahead for UK PLC but staying in the EU would only have added to them.

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I agree Osem, our politicians have only just found out the their electorate weren't happy with the lack of truthful information during the run up to the referendum.

As regards this racist drivel - what can you say. toony is obviously a moron.

Tell the truth and let the people decide. Scaremongering doesn't work any more.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

:rofl:

Judging by the amount of truth spoken throughout the campaign I'd say scaremongering is working just fine

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No doubt he/she will be elevated by some to being representative of the average Brexit supporter.

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Well........... I've tweeted him and I'll let you know what the moron comes back with.

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Thankfully Twitter, Facebook and all the rest are places I don't frequent. ;)

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Thankfully neither do I but I was born and bred in this country and if this guy thinks he's representing me....

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I'd rather chew my own arm off then go on twitter or facebook seems every personal problem a few people i know have is related in someway to those two and toony the looney certainly doesn't represent me or most brexit supporters. Of course brexit isn't a magical cure for many of the country's problems but staying in the EU wasn't a cure for them either the underlying issue's within the EU are still there and getting worse. In or out there are problems to be resolved but the one thing brexit does mean is we can now start to solve some of those problems with solutions that are best for the UK rather then trying to balance the good of the UK and the EU. There will continue to be a diehard remain element that will never be happy unless we return to the EU preferably grovelling to be allowed back in lets just hope none of them have any form of power to abuse.

If nothing else good comes from the brexit vote the end of boris johnson and his political ambition will warm a few cockles but I'm pretty sure within a decade brexit will be looked back on as a timely and beneficial exit for the UK.

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What really matters is making sure sad idiots like him aren't allowed to be presented as being representative of the rest of us. Of course there are those out there who'd quite like to paint that particular picture so we need to challenge them also.

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Or people could do some of their own research, rather than complaining about it....

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They could but it's not really to much to ask to expect people to tell the truth and perhaps draconian measures are in order to ensure our elected officials do that.


Speaking of complaining, something that made me feel quite sad was the most Googled uk search in the hours after the referendum was 'what is the EU', how can you vote with any confidence if you don't even remotely know what you're voting for, people say it's the democratic will of the people but that's not democracy to me, political scientists say that population need to actively participate rather than sleepwalk into the voting booth

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

This is often repeated but I've never seen any evidence that these just weren't the people who hadn't in-fact voted.

Furthermore even if you approximately know what the EU is, phrasing stupid questions to google is often a good way to get more information.
It may just have been all the journalists trying to plagiarise a sentence for the opening of their articles.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Agreed Daddy i was staggered when that came out where is basic curiosity these days for months it was everywhere and yet a lot only looked into what the EU was after casting a vote i honestly don't understand it. Also agree that as we clearly can no longer assume honesty in our officials there should be some mechanism in place to punish those who knowingly lie or mislead. Despite voting out I'd volunteer both boris johnson and michael gove to be the first at testing a mechanism as both of them were pursuing their personal ambitions using an important national vote.

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I think what too many people are looking for is simple answers and choices in a complex world where there are few. Good v bad. Black v. white. Sometimes it comes to deciding on the least worst option but far too many people are still prepared to vote for the people who say "it'll all be OK if we're in power & you'll be better off". Our politicians really aren't popular when they tell the unpleasant truth so it's not surprising that they may come to the conclusion that being economical with the actuality is the best way forward. Let's face it, if our leaders were brutally honest about everything at the time (e.g. how bad the banking collapse really was) they'd probably have caused havoc and made things far worse. :spin:

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It comes down to can we trust them or not and lying or deliberately misleading because the truth may not be rainbows and unicorns does not incline people to trust and i think that's why so many are apathetic towards politics now. This attitude of treating the public like children and hiding the unpleasant truth has not worked and while we have a sizable group in this country that spit out their dummies when they are told something they don't like i suspect the majority would rather have the unpleasant truth then a pleasant lie.

The truth allows us to address issue's, cause's us to think about them and in turn deal with them, hiding the truth does nothing positive except maybe get a politician off the hook temporarily. We've had a couple of decades of spin, creative disclosure and misleading and our society and politics are worse for it it's time for a change and honesty would be refreshing.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Interesting, Maggy the remainer

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...pported-brexit

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Brexit would probably not have happened if David Cameron really did have a well organised plan for dealing with immigration but he didn't have a plan and despite rigorous questioning he came up with the same mantralike answer he wanted to say rather than the answer the public wanted to hear. As a consequence he came across as a person who was trying to hide something, which indeed he was.

As it transpires while our government ponders over Brexit the EU is starting to panic as it begins to realise that the UK really is intending to leave and all the adverse consequences that may have for the EU. We have already had a few positive statements since the Brexit decision about the UK having special status, the possibilities of a special deal and the fact that the EU might fall apart without the UK. There have even been admissions that London will still remain the financial capital of Europe following Brexit.

The responses from the rest of the world have been most welcome and give us great hope for the future.

The EU politicians have been playing a great big poker game trying to make the situation look bad for the UK but Mrs May has called their bluff because unlike David Cameron she has done her research and is coming up with a plan. She seems a more open and honest politician, if there is such a thing, but like all these things the truth will eventually come out.

The ironic thing is that in their discussions one EU minister said that the UK were leaving the current version of the EU which is true because if the EU were to reform substantially for the benefit of all members becoming just a free trade area as it was before it's possible that the UK would stay but the EU is unlikely to reform and even if it did it's unlikely to willingly come up with a deal that has the freedoms which Brexit provides.

By taking steps to prevent other countries from leaving the EU is hastening its own demise. If we wait long enough the EU will collapse and we will end up being able to trade freely with any EU country and still have the power to run our own country and immigration policy free of interference.

It will be interesting to see what the future brings.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Japan surveyed a bunch of their businesses, and have produced a document directed at both the UK and the EU.

It basically indicates the level of disruption the Japanese will tolerate from Brexit without it endangering their investments here and in the EU.

These requests will, for those opposed to EEA membership or something very close to it, be unacceptable.

They also ask that the EU be reasonable in its dealings with the UK and if necessary offer businesses appropriate transition arrangements.

Full document is here.

Faisal Islam at Sky's analysis here.

There is nothing in here that wouldn't be expected from a 3rd party that invests in both areas, and the UK will be getting a bunch more communications like this, with the caveat that for the most part they'll probably be kept private. We'll likely have received or be receiving much the same from the USA, China and others.

Following on from this is the comment from Obama that we are indeed still at the back of the queue, and the USA is concentrating on TTIP and TTP first, which makes sense.

The Conservative government are in an unenviable position. Is the plan to turn the UK into a giant tax haven economy to retain these businesses, which will have horrendous effects for equality of wealth and income. At what price 'control'?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

If you read for what Japan have asked for (other than EEA etc) then we can see the beginnings of a possible deal that doesn't involve the EEA.

Japanese companies have asked the EU for temporary passporting rights whilst they relocate (assuming no EEA). I think we could have a soft-brexit approach whereby we can limit EU migration almost immediately after exit and in return get some sort of trade deal for goods whilst services are given 'x years' free access which slowly gets wound down. So for a few years we'll have both limits on migration and be in the single-market with the single market benefits getting slowly removed.

It would stop any dramatic shock to both the EU and the UK whilst the EU get a lot of the big services firms and we limit migration.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Dave was always hiding something. I think we all know that now.
he was a very dodgy man.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Looking like there will be no points system for immigration: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37271420

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

PMI numbers for August are very good.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37274279

Initial shock has faded and activity that was put off until after the vote is happening. Good.

The better the shape of the economy when the really unpleasant stuff starts to hit the more jobs saved and fewer people suffering.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Good news. There is certainty in the possibility of uncertainty. :D

Probably more like the comment in the link and the british stoic character to not panic and carry on.

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Yes indeed.

The down side is it's likely because the government have so far failed to provide any detail on what Brexit actually entails, so businesses are now just getting on with it.

We're completely in limbo at the moment. The prophecies of doom haven't happened as we're just stalled and doing nothing, the progress we've made towards making the best of the situation also non-existent. We've done nothing and have no clue where we're going after the exit door.

Some movement would be good sooner rather than later on this, to at least give us some idea of where we're going. Leaving us and our partners dangling for too long is unfair even if it is politically expedient.

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Given that Brexit is a work in progress it's not really surprising that there's nothing to report at present especially as some of the actions being taken may be commercially sensitive.

We do know that the UK is sounding out trade deals with India, Australia and China and that Canada has offered to act as a go-between using their trade deal link with the EU.

The UK is examining the opportunities and alternatives in the unlikely event that a satisfactory deal cannot be agreed with the EU. So if the EU turns nasty we can trade elsewhere. Gives the EU an incentive to play fair knowing that others are interested in trading with the UK.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

But we were promised by leave that would defiantly happen....

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It's possible for an undesirable to have the necessary points to enter and what we want is a simpler system that can control entry or not at will.

We could end up with a visa system like the USA where you need a passport and a visa to gain entry and you have to apply well in advance so that the security service can check you out before approving entry.

If you are deemed a risk you don't get a visa and therefore get no access.

If you get a visa and you break the rules, your visa is revoked and you are deported.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Pardon my pedantry but I believe the leave campaign described things that "can" happen, not things they promised would happen - given that nobody could say any of the leading leavers would be in a position to deliver on any promises they were perceived to be making.

This was a referendum, not an election, it's a fairly elementary and well-understood thing about referendums that they don't come with a manifesto.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Make your own mind up, I don't see much mention of the word can

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7058936.html

I see pledge and promise feature though

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Doesn't bother me what was promised or not promised ,what we don't want is a system that automatically allows people in because they meet set criteria ,we need to have the ability to refuse entry regardless of skills or points .Also i think the points system is only part of Australia's whole system

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

TBQH I don't care what system is put in place so long as it is effective in reducing the flood of immigrants that threaten to destroy the public services in this country.

There is some evidence that the Australian points based system is not as effective as it first appears. Visa's may be a more controllable method.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I agree ,the difference between us and Australia is that we have been hit from all sides with immigrants Australia hasn't, so a points based system is probably ok for them ,we need to be much more restrictive than a simple system that allows people into the country automatically because they meet set criteria

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think a lot of people voted for Brexit because of the adverse effects on their lifestyle caused by a large influx of immigrants.

Though we do need to reduce the numbers of immigrants, we also need to get the UK's unemployed into work and to ensure that we have the necessary housing, schools, doctors, dentists and jobs for UK nationals in areas where the number of immigrants is large.

By offsetting the negative effects of high immigration, UK people will tolerate the numbers so long as they do not affect their lifestyles and it is the responsibility of the government to ensure that the negative effects are addressed with some sense of urgency.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It's worth reading this article into how many consider the points system to be bogus: http://www.economist.com/news/intern...ed-they-do-not

There is also talk of giving some sort of preferential treatment to EU workers in any deal. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ne...lets-8qxp90vgw

And to add to that it wasn't ruled out by Theresa Villiers on the Daily Politics although she isn't a senior figure.

We still have no idea of what will happen and the government is sending slightly contradictorily messages. You get the sense they have no idea of what the prospects are for any part of the deal so are leaving their options open. Unless the goldilocks option emerges they're going to have a difficult time.

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

Ok but I wonder to what degree those who voted will accept that? The £350 million for the NHS will be forgotten as will all the stuff about VAT discounts and lower taxes. Immigration was what won it for leave.

The fury that will be met with any compromise on immigration that isn't the one envisioned by many for voted will be strong.

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Given that we've only just voted for Brexit a few months ago the expectation of a dramatic change in immigration is unreasonable.

If, as some want, we expel all immigrants tomorrow this will have a massive negative effect on our lifestyles because we do not have people trained up to take their places and do their jobs.

The NHS has a large number of highly trained immigrants working in it. Given the existing medical staff shortages, it would take years to get new people trained up to take their places and thus any reduction in the number of immigrants will be gradual and over a number of years.

When numbers do fall, this will free up places in schools, doctors' & dentists' surgeries and housing accomodation though it will be some time before it happens.It won't be an overnight phenomenon.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Boris, erstwhile Brexit leader, doesn't seem to be singing from this hymn sheet?

Boris Johnson: UK looks forward to welcoming new Polish immigrants

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Well in fairness to boris he only got into brexit as his way to the party leadership and now that's off the cards a change in tact was to be expected I'm sure we will see more from him in the coming months. Apart from his own ambition boris is extremely elastic on personal beliefs and convictions a strong breeze can sway them sometimes.

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Given the amount of poor planning and financial waste we have had from government Boris can still welcome the next Polish generation because they have skills, are cheaper and are more willing to work.

Let's not forget that at one time we used to be a major manufacturing country until we priced ourselves out of the market allowing China, Taiwan etc to take over. If those at the top had been more willing to share the excessive payments made to them with the workers we probably still would be.

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Why wouldn't we continue to welcome Polish immigrants? The campaign was fought on controlling immigration, not ending it. Only the most rabid remainiacs are still trying to paint the leave campaign as racist and isolationist. Do try to keep up.

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Worrying developments from down Brussels way :shocked: :shocked:

http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/...layed-to-2026/

Via southend obviously :erm: :D

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Please can you drop the patronising insults? The foreign secretary made no mention, as far as I can see, of controlling Polish immigration numbers when he was in Poland.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It looks to me like you're more interested in playing with words than seriously discussing the issue. Surely you can see the difference between a speech on the UK's future immigration policy (which this wasn't) and a goodwill speech delivered by the UK's chief diplomat (which this was)?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It looks to me that you are more interested in just being patronising :) (again)

OK, let's see then. Please post again when we get the official Government policy that controls and caps Polish immgration ..

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The government isn't going to publish an immigration policy that specifically restricts numbers of Polish workers as that is not only discriminatory but would also not do a great deal for Anglo-Polish relations.

The only reason we have immigrant workers in the first place is that the 5 million unemployed UK workers are unwilling or unable to do the jobs available hence the need to use migrant labour.

There would be no real need for any immigration if all available jobs in the UK were taken up by the unemployed UK workers we have but at present that is not the case.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Erm, in the 60s and 70s the pay differential between owners/senior managers was much less than it is now, and it was the fact that the overseas manufacturers had cheaper labour and cheaper raw materials which made the price differential so much; that and the fact we had terrible quality control, and thought we still had an Empire that had to buy from us, rather than producing and exporting their own goods.

We, as a country (both politicians, industries, and workers) did not adapt to a changing world, tried to live on our laurels, and got left behind...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That would seem to conflict with this:

"The only formal process for leaving the EU comes through Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (TEU). The government of the withdrawing state notifies the European Council of its wish of leaving the EU. This triggers the negotiation process around the transitional arrangement and also any future arrangement between the EU and the leaving state. Two years is allotted for the negotiations, during which all EU laws continue to apply to the leaving state. If no agreement is reached after two years, all EU rules and rights cease to apply to the withdrawing country – unless the period is extended by unanimous agreement of the other 27 states."

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/...at-comes-next/

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Duck that low flying satire, dude ... :D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Unfortunately, we are still making the same mistakes because as you say the pay differential now is higher than it was in the past. We have actually learnt nothing.

Is it any wonder that we have a massive deficit because we, as a country, are not planning financial reductions or making any real effort to live within our means.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

But we didn't make the mistakes you said we made, and we are now making different ones..

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I am afraid that is exactly what the 37% of the electorate who voted us out of the EU are expecting. Controlled immigration means exactly that: a cap on people who are able to move here from foreign countries which would include Poland.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

No it's not ,we expect limits on immigration not limits on Polish immigration

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Seems a contradiction to me (or maybe its just a wind up). Ok, I'll run with it: controlled or capped immigration is just that. Or are you suggested that we have different quota applied to different countries? I assume Poland having no quota applied ..

Maybe that's why Boris didn't mention it ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The plan was already in motion before brexit with repeated cuts to corporation tax. The future is hard to predict for sure and these are difficult times to be a ruler of this country.

---------- Post added at 00:37 ---------- Previous post was at 00:36 ----------

considering how much we rely on services for GDP tho that would be a big shock to the UK.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Your the one suggesting that in all of these posts starting with Boris welcoming Polish immigrants and not singing from the same hymn sheet

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The bad planning still exists and we are still paying ourselves too much especially at the top.

The only lesson we have learned is to get our deficit down but this government has done it at the expense of the poor.

---------- Post added at 07:28 ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 ----------

Boris wouldn't mention it because Boris was not the person who determines policy.

The government know that they must get immigration down but it has to be done in a practical way. If all EU immigrants were expelled many of our public services and businesses would go under with adverse effects on the lifestyles of UK citizens involved.

The government need a quick, simple method of controlling immigration that does not have negative erffects and it has to be applied fairly to all immigrants.

This means that as they reduce the number of EU immigrants some unemployed people have to be willing and able to take their jobs so that normality can be maintained.

At present the infrastructure to do that does not exist. Some people will need to be retrained and that takes time.

Boris saw the points system as one method of control. Theresa May saw not having a job to go to as another. The Americans use the visa system.The method of reducing immigrants has not been decided yet. Once they have decided which method to use and have applied it numbers will fall.

While this is happening the government will also have to ensure that UK nationals in areas where there are high numbers of immigrants are able to find a home, send their children to the school of their choice, have easy access to doctors and dentists, get a job etc because those are the things they are complaining about.

We'll just have to wait to see how the goverment decide to do all this.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Doesn't the points system simply set some criteria to qualify for a visa?

In the case of Canada a Permanent Residency card is issued, which may be revoked.

An issue I ran into when, years ago, contemplating a move to Canada is that the points based system is not flexible enough. Due to my not having completed an undergraduate degree I did not qualify, despite a company wanting to employ me.

Canada has taken in a bunch of immigrants who are academically educated but nowhere near Canadian standards, and do not have the skills necessary to secure reasonable employment. It was until relatively recently possible to achieve the required score and gain PR status without being able to speak either of Canada's languages.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I suspect that the unsatisfactoriness of the points system is why Theresa May knocked it back.

We need to look at our employment situation and identify shortage areas. In that way we can start training up our suitable unemployed to meet the vancancies available in those areas. We can then top up any shortages from suitably qualified immigrants as we are doing now. This maintains the services while immigration numbers are being reduced.

The problem is that this all takes time and the people want instant answers i.e. instant reductions in immigrants which isn't going to happen immediately.

Like the deficit we will see a reduction but over a period so we are heading in the right direction but not at a speed people would like.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Would that mean that if Brexit not fast enough this government could lose the next election?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Until there's a credible opposition they'll never lose anything ever.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

So there's a chance that however much they screw up Brexit they stay in power?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It's about people being patient. The government is in talks with other countries re trade deals and won't be activating Article 50 until next year at the earliest.

By then they will have worked out the strategy for dealing with the EU.

What matters is not the speed of the Brexit but the quality of the deal with the EU and the deals with other countries who want to trade with us.

By 2020, when the next election comes, we should have a better idea what Brexit means and which party is best placed and prepared to run the country efficiently and effectively. Hopefully, by then the Labour party will have sorted out who their leader will be and what policies they want to offer.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Agreed I don't know why so many people want it done *now* if it's rushed it'll be farked up, lets not forget this is uncharted territory, no other EU country has done this.

Take it slow, get it right.

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------

If there's no credible opposition (and lets face it, there just isn't at the moment) they could swing naked from the chandeliers at Chequers and nothing will change.

Instead of harping on about Brexit, concentrate on a credible opposition, because there's just no way the public will vote for Corby or anyone like him.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Quite right but not so slowly that it's only part done and the opposition if they got into power ( God help us) could reverse it.

For which we should be truely thankful.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Theresa May will activate Article 50 in 2017. Then we have 2 years of negotiation taking us to roughly the end of 2019. There will be a general election in May 2020 when people can reflect on progress so far and decide if they want to stick with the Conservatives or switch to another party.

Given that we will have activated Brexit in 2017 there will be no going back. There are no second chances, which is why it is crucial that we get our strategy right.

Theresa May has said that she is not going to give a running commentary on progress as that would compromise discussions with the EU.

Bear in mind too that the German people have given the German government a bit of a sideswipe with Merkel losing seats to the opposition Anti-EU party and during the next few years France will be having elections when I expect something similar to happen.

This may get the UK a far more sympathetic hearing as the EU was warned that if it did not reform anti-EU sentiment would increase with a subsequent loss of seats.

By the time the negotiations are completed we may have a completely different version of the EU perhaps one we could live with but we'll all have to be patient and wait and see.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm too old to be patient..

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Funnily enough, it's the more rabid Brexiteers who are clamouring for a rapid result...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm a brexiteer rather than a remoaner, I'm happy to wait, what is the rush?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Indeed. We get one chance at this, let's do it right!
......and I do wish that the remoaners would stop trying to undermine things. You lost! Deal with it! Move on FFS!

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

This is both a new and exciting point of view, so as per I'll defer to Ian Hislop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyyOyoeqKfM

I can say with confidence there is absolutely no way that if the result were reversed there wouldn't be people continuing to make the argument to leave... as is their right.

As far as having one chance to do it and doing it right, beyond leaving the EU we seem to be no closer to knowing what it is we're actually doing. The Government, specifically referring to David Davis' abysmal performance in the Commons yesterday, alongside his being shot down over his determination to leave the single market and the farce over a points-based immigration system, something the head of Migration Watch said was a dumb idea I might add, indicate they have no idea yet either.

---------- Post added at 23:08 ---------- Previous post was at 22:54 ----------

I'm finding myself increasingly clamouring for, well, something.

The excuses about giving away the negotiating position are absurd. There isn't a negotiating position yet, and in all honesty it's likely they'll spend months allegedly listening to stakeholders, then take whatever course is most politically expedient and doesn't threaten party funding.

Happy to be proven wrong however I very much doubt this will be done the right way, I suspect it will, at least initially, be done in the way considered most likely to win votes.

Maybe we should return control over important constitutional issues to the Queen. With this one we've ended up with a referendum that's being used as an example of how not to do one and a government not prepared to implement it.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Ah, the old 'bridge building' technique... ;)

I did not comment on Brexit progress, I just pointed out that most of those complaining about a perceived lack of progress came from the Brexit camp, and suddenly it becomes all about people who voted Remain.

You are Donald Trump*, and I claim my £10... :D

*responding to a point that wasn't made, and making a response that wasn't relevant to the point that was made...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

You only like democracy when the vote favours your favoured position, it's a free country where people can have an opinion, deal with it

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The name Goldman Sachs does seem to crop up quite a lot:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37337918

They may moan now but how many of them will join Barroso with their snouts in the GS trough?...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Ms Rudd admitted British people would be "surprised" to learn the free and easy travel they've enjoyed for decades is now on peril

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7236786.html

Shouldn't have been a surprise if the referendum had been conducted in an adult way by grown ups

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

it was you probably blinked and missed that bit ;)

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Correct I probably did blink and miss the bit where they were behaving like adults, you know things like having rational discussions, not telling lies, debating facts, you must know the kinda stuff grown ups get up to, well maybe you don't know but anyway I wonder what other surprises will rear up to shock the public.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

None, because like many other people I voted on my experiences over the last 40+ years, not on 5 minutes of politik talk

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Yup, not really that difficult...

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He reads the Express. How could he?

---------- Post added at 00:02 ---------- Previous post was at 00:00 ----------

40+ years of being misinformed isn't any better than 10+ years of it. In this instance quite the opposite given scapegoating the EU was a hobby of both media and many in Parliament. I know I blamed the EU for a whole bunch of things that weren't actually related, but then that's the way the politicians here wanted it.

Very few of us were really able to give an educated opinion but ran with our entrenched bias, for better or worse.

Either way experience and facts are unfortunately different things.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

You were expecting visas and charges then?

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@TheDaddy - Yes, I'd also expect anything else that existed pre EU union too, kiss goodbye to your free roaming across the EU as well most likely.

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Wonder why to quote ms rudd it's come to such a surprise to people then :shrug:

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No idea, after all if you're not in the club, you don't enjoy the benefits of membership, shouldn't be too difficult to grasp.

Then again, some people want the moon on a stick, for me, I'm happy to hand in my EU badge and lose my EU rights, of course I'll be gaining my sovereign rights instead, it's just a substitution.

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All we need now is the VAT removed from home fuel bills, £350 million a week more on the NHS, immigration to go down, and everything will be rosy.... ;)

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Doom and gloom!:D:D:D

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Bit risky trusting our rights, laws, way of life, economic future etc. etc. to our own elected (and removable) government surely, especially when we could be benefiting from the far superior, forward thinking and not at all head in the sand, bloated and dogma fixated Brussels based model eh? :erm:


:rofl:

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I would stop the Daily Express subscription while you can :)

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After all the abuse I got for voting 'leave', nah......I'll stick to burning my bridges when it comes to (some) remain voters.
:D


..............not to mention the abuse, from men no less, that my wife used to get on the street when she was out campaigning for leave (only happened when I wasn't there....strange)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Shame this wasn't considered earlier. Would've gone a long way in some people's eyes.

Perhaps if we end up looking at EEA membership.

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@ Ramrod - Who needs bridges which connect us to economic mayhem and migration madness? We should be building bridges to connect us to that large portion of the rest of the world which doesn't believe in one size fits all politics/economic policy and prefers migration based on merit not membership.

Anyway, I've been waking up every morning wondering when the worst is going to happen. Where's that emergency budget? :rolleyes:

Talk about scare stories... :rofl:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

A good analysis of the Eurozone's troubles: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ju...39ee8394de6afd

Germany especially need to get their act together and fulfil their side of the single currency bargain more.

These are troubles that impact us regardless of whether or not we're in political union, so for the sake of all concerned let's hope they, finally, get their act together and stop the insanity of repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

There were discussions about a two-speed EU with those who wanted more integration getting it while those who didn't had a looser relationship. Time to turn that into action both for the sake of those who wish to be at the core and who frankly need more convergence between their economies as without it the Euro just doesn't and couldn't work, and those who should have always been on the periphery.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Genuine question, zero sass: would it be acceptable to anyone who is happy with Brexit for the UK to allow migrants from the EU on condition they were employed?

Not complete free movement of people, but free movement of labour only. It's been mentioned that this wouldn't be against the treaties and would allow UK membership of the EEA. The big hitters in the EU wouldn't be opposed to this as they do want to keep working and trading with us but at the same time cannot simply give us whatever we want. We had a pretty good deal in the EU, to the point where it annoyed a bunch of other members, our getting preferential treatment leaving would end the thing. While that may or may not be a good thing it's not something people negotiating on behalf of the EU are going to pursue.

So, free movement for those working. We could certainly accompany this with restrictions on welfare and/or changes to the tax system that disincentivise employing EU nationals rather than those from the UK. Would that be enough to make membership of the EEA palatable?

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Whats so important about EEA membership ?

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Nothing.