Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Nope it's Swansea all the way for me today :)

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

l will support you this once.:D

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Shhhhh. They will not win. We will win. I am sat here with my Man Utd shirt on, ill have beer and pizza when the game starts as well

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Don't forget your tissues as well Mr Stokes.:D

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

I wont need them :)

---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------

1-2 to Villa. Get in :D

---------- Post added at 16:28 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------

Red card for Arsenal now as well. Hahaha. Not a great start for them

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WE are on day one of the PL season and a crisis is already enveloping the Emirates tonight.

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:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

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Wenger has gone and hidden in the stands to avoid the abuse from Arsenal fans

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Great one Russ.:D:D

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Brilliant Russ.

Wayne Rooney on bench for us. Will he play today, we shall see

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

And Arsenal troubles have just got a whole lot worse.:D

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

I predict a tight win for United, maybe 2-1. Certainly not a convincing performance and questions will immediately be asked of Moyles.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

1-3 to Villa

---------- Post added at 16:47 ---------- Previous post was at 16:46 ----------

Indeed i am happy with that :D:D:D:D

---------- Post added at 16:48 ---------- Previous post was at 16:47 ----------

Where are all the Arsenal fans on the forum now just when you want them to come on here :D:D:D:D

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

There's one in particular I wish would return :D

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

thenry by any chance? :D

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

i thought there might be a shock, but had it down at Swansea.

I suspect Arsene will be buying soon ..maybe :D

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denphone you're obsessed with declaring there is a crisis at Arsenal everytime they lose. The season has just started.

Hopefully we sign some players though.

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No no no, long before his time :D

This was someone who during the 'Invincibles' days claimed the balance of power had shifted to North London and that United's success was confined to the era of Noel Gallagher and Geri Halliwell's Union Jack dress :D

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You only have to hear the crowd to know things ain't right Damien but with a few big signings that were promised a while back then things can change very quickly.:)

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He was clearly in dreamland

I heard the boos while watching Sky Sports News HD

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lol Piers Morgan is doing his nut on Twitter :D

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I can see the point about the dress...or make a point when seeing it :D

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

I seem to remember a year ago, same was being said.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Unless it's a fitness issue I really can't understand why Rooney isn't starting for United. Power-play tactics leave me cold.

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Says he the great drama queen of CF.;):D

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Things aren't right but they can be changed. It's just loses its effect when you declare a crisis every week.

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Calm down Den. you are getting confused.

Old age will do that to you. :D

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l have never said there was a crisis every week but the fact remains that Arsenal have had all summer to strengthen their squad and so far have done diddly squat so far especiallywhen the men with all the power at Arsenal promised supporters that they would be competing for the best players in the transfer market but alas it seems so far they are all mouth and no action and Arsenal supporters are starting to see through that thus the deep booing and discontent at the final whistle today.

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Arsenal did ok in the end.

This isn't good and it's tiring but some perspective is required instead of the constant talk of crisis
Arsenal could buy players, qualify for the CL and this will all be forgotten. Declaring a crisis after one game is beyond parody.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Really?

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If you pay your money, you have every right to complain.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Do a search under your name for Arsenal and see how often you've declared that there is a crisis and/or that Wenger hasn't got long left. Arsenal aren't doing well right now but still. It's tiring.

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

There is a difference between complaining and declaring a crisis. I complained several posts ago. There is lots to complain about but it's not a crisis. A crisis is what is happening to Coventry or what happened to Liverpool years ago. Losing a game and unhappy fans is not a crisis and needs to be put into perspective. Anything which can be forgotten in a couple of good results is not a crisis.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

i meant the arsenal fans at the game...remarking at Denphone's comment

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Fair enough. Fans should complain, it's a joke how badly this summer has gone. Just don't think it counts as a crisis.

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I'd say a team with Arsenal's heritage and following not getting a sniff at a trophy or getting anywhere near the Premier League title in coming up to 10 years should be considered something of a near-crisis especially with so many star players leaving and not being replaced.

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Probably a disappointment, except to the teams taking advantage, and Tottenham fans :D

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:50 ----------

i think the nation was all up celebrating that goal..or near goal by Swansea

ok, except the Man Utd fans :D

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We have started poorly

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Yes :D

Though that sort of game normally means Utd will get a dodgy decision, and win. Here's hoping not

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

No it isn't. Plenty of teams have great heritage but aren't close to the league. West Ham, Leeds, Villa, Forrest and more.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

I have a feel United's ability to squeeze out an unearned win retired along with SAF.

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Stoke got away with murder again today. Hopefully this is the season in which they return from whence they came and where they belong.

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RVP get in. 0-1 Man Utd

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I hate being right :(

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I'm sorry are you really comparing Arsenal to teams who had success almost a generation ago? 10 years ago Arsenal were winning league titles and had done for about the previous 5 years or so, they were the 'Invincibles', trophies etc, hit a barren spell from hell and haven't recovered - without any indication of wanting to recover. Selling your best players to pay for a new stadium is pretty awful going. OK that may not really be what happened but where is all the money they've had from transfers?

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Not at the moment Russ as they have just scored.

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0-2 Man Utd. Get the f in :D:D:

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2-0 now.:(

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Lovely goal from Kid'n'Play :D

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I wore my Man Utd shirt last Sunday and we won. Im wearing my Man Utd shirt now and 0-2 up so could win. Lucky shirt?

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

+1.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

No, just a lucky B :D

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Im not a bee, i dont have wings and sting people :D:D:D

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------

Rooney now on and playing

---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------

0-3 Man Utd. RVP. Last game of season we were top and now first game of the season we are guess what, top of the table :D

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Stroppy Rooney....

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TBH i dont think he was, he played that ball and help RVP out and was unselfish IMO

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No he was great there, lovely dummy run but while the rest of the team celebrated he walked away on his own.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Do you think he will leave Russ?.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Not yet.

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Darn 1-3 now grrrr

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

That defence still worries me.

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And me

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Wellbeck would have had the hairdryer set on 'blast' had SAF been there for that.

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1-4 Man Utd. Welbeck. Beautiful goal

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:19 ----------

Not after that goal. Fantastic

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------

He love how it scores it in Moyes time for the very first game :D:D

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United win in a very unconvincing game. Business as usual then :D

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You talking about his celebration Russ?.

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This is he....

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No his silly bit of dancing that led to Swansea's goal.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Not sure what to make of that

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This isn't just because of the loss, its whats required at Arsenal for us to compete again. We need 5 players. A GK, CB, DM, AM and a CF. We could have filled 4 positions by now, CB (Sakho), DM (Fellaini), AM (Bernard) and CF (Higuain) = around 80m. I cannot believe Arsenal didn't even bid 25m cash for Higuain. its truly unbelievable. I don't care if Suarez become avaialble. at 25m for Higuain that was a deal to be had!

today was at first really good, the team played well but its the same old creeping back into play. its schoolboy. the ref had a bad game but great sides rise above it, we just couldn't rise above it. Rosicky missed clear chances to score. i cannot blame the ref with soo much going on. we have bigger problems than a ref! this though wasnt a peno

http://i.minus.com/ibveTKz6ZigmaZ.gif

I really wish Dein was at Arsenal and Red&White were on the board. Everyone could work together, each has their own strengths. instead we have narrow vision, flawed vision. its a joke.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Doesn't a champions league final and at least one other final count as a sniff at a trophy, I think he's done remarkably well keeping them in the top four under the constraints he's under, if their self induced restraints then it's the boards fault for putting their dividends ahead of success.

In other news is that both Welsh clubs in the bottom three, long may that continue.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

They dont get dividends. The incompetence do get huge salaries and bonuses though. Arsene has toyed with money from outgoing transfers. Hes never really put his hand in the clubs pocket. Wage bill wise well its a joke, he clogged it up then said we didnt have money. "keep the faith"

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

If United went on to have the next 8 years the same as Arsenal did since their last trophy I'd consider that a crisis. For a team like West Ham what the Gunners have done in that time may seem like major achievements but for big clubs it's pretty bleak.

The ones in red can stay there - however yes I'm sure it annoyed the racists that a Welsh club won your League Cup last year ;)

Still no shame in losing to the PL champions - as I'm sure certain London teams will testify twice this season :)

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

When was the last time Arsenal spent real money during the transfer window?

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Was that his first yellow? I gather the red card was for 2 bookable offences, so if the penalty hadn't been given Arsenal would have been playing with 11 players?

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

no. he got the 1st yellow for that legit challenge. then he got a 2nd yellow later on in the game. infact at the same point when Kos got the second yellow Mert could have been sent off straight red for a 2 footed challenge. wasnt crazy dangerous but still a 2 footed challenge.

---------- Post added at 21:09 ---------- Previous post was at 21:09 ----------

this is worth a watch/listen > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gSFEaI4HdA&feature

:clap:

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

West ham have won a trophy in the last eight years and united have gone longer than eight years without winning something before although given your multi club status bothering to research your chosen club of the days history is probably a little much to ask and since when did the Welsh become a race, I know the wee nations generally suffer from a bit of an inferiority complex but designating yourselves as a race is not going to cure that.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Trouble is, it is all very well for everyone to be saying Wenger needs to be buying players. But Arsenal are at a disadvantage in 2 ways.

One, they do not have the money resources of City or Chelsea, but because of the name and the success they have had in the past prices go up when Arsenal come sniffing around.

Two, going without a trophy for so long means players will not want to go there. But that is a vicious circle. Arsenal need new players to win the trophies to tempt more big names to the club, but without trophy wins for 7 years players will not look at Arsenal.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

It's not awful going. Look how difficult a stadium has proved for Spurs and Liverpool. Arsenal at least have an ability to compete for a long time to go thanks to the stadium and Wenger kept them in the Champions League during that time. Football can leave great, historic, teams behind quite quickly and Arsenal made the transition quite smoothly all things considered.

Yes they lost today but the season still has 37 games to go and the transfer window is still open. Arsenal need to get on with it and sign some players and if not those responsible will have to be held to account if Arsenal don't do well this season.

History means nothing however. Plenty of clubs have a brilliant history. Doesn't mean they're underachieving. West Ham had some of the best English players ever and they're not going to win the league this year, doesn't reflect badly on them and they even have a new stadium to come. Huddersfield have had two of the greatest managers ever know to the English game: Shankly and Chapman. They're a long way from the premier league. Nottingham Forest are one of our oldest clubs and have won European cups! History is just that. No one is entitled to a dominance or cups irrespective of how great their club is.

I compare them because the expectation should be linked to their realistic ability to compete for the season ahead and not what they've done before.

---------- Post added at 00:27 ---------- Previous post was at 00:21 ----------

Prior to Wenger the difference between West Ham and Arsenal weren't that big. Both classic British clubs. Arsenal won a few more titles and West Ham boasted a history of great players. The real difference between West Ham and Arsenal was Wenger and luck. Wenger rose Arsenal to a level that took full advantage of the explosion in Premier League revenue and, more importantly, access to the millions of the Champions League. Arsenal were one of the big guns at that time, due to Wenger, and as a result they are where they are now. New stadium, one of the 'big clubs', and supporters around the world. It could so easily have been Blackburn, West Ham, Leeds, Newcastle and others.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Arsenal could spend 100m right now http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/20...r-2-night.html

The inflation is set in the game Mark. Whether its Arsenal going in or not the inflation is here and its going to stay. we just have to deal with it to the best of our ability as in negotiating.

It is hard to prize away talent from other clubs whom are competing but there have been players available, still are too.

Arsenal have been said to be very very slow completing deals. Its either differing over players or looking at the value. Arsene Wenger is on a mission to bring the market into control, well he wont pay inflation he'll take it but wont pay it. the guy is truly nuts. hes tried to get the January window closed. He wants the window to be closed before the season fixtures start. The summer window drags out for a good reason, so clubs can tweak etc. the January window is there for patch up.

Back in the day when the club had David Dein, the late Fiszman etc. it was a circle of different strengths which all worked together. at the moment we have narrow vision, 1 vision and thats it. the club needs to be shaken and that will only truly come about if Dein is brought back and Red&White (Usmanov) is invited onto the board.

what is happening at Arsenal isn't in the best interest of Arsenal. Its in the best interest of the old dinosaurs. the tradition wouldnt be compromised by Usmanov or Dein. its the dinosaurs egos that would be compromised.

sorry for venting its just schoolboy. on the pitch and off it. :mad:

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Which trophy have they won? I can find nothing of it on Wikipedia - I'm talking trophies of any real significance to big clubs, seeing as you're again seemingly trying to compare your team to big clubs.

As we're talking about the modern era, if United had achieved what West Ham had only managed to knock together over 8 years then yes that would be considered a major crisis. Hell, if Arsenal had only managed what Swansea had come up with since 2005 it would be the same. But again in terms of success there's little point in comparing teams like Swansea and West Ham to United and Arsenal.


Would 'bigot' suit you better?

---------- Post added at 06:23 ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 ----------

All seems a bit like sentimentality to me - you cannot seriously deny there has been a significant decline in Arsenal's results, fortunes and abilities in 8 years. As much as I can't stand your club, during the early to mid 2000s they were one of the PL's dominant teams. The fact is they no longer have any of that intimidation factor and as is, show no signs of resurrecting it.



But you've just said 'history means nothing' - presumably you're talking about modern era too? As you say Arsenal were one of the big teams but to go from being invincible to winning nothing (and not looking like that would change) for 8 years, selling all the best players without adequately replacing them - I tell you this, if that's what happens to United under Moyes then yes that will be a crisis but I can't see the board holding on to him for half the time Wenger has managed it if he fails to bring in any trophies.

For a team still considered one of the 'big 6' simply reaching the Champion's League final or just coming second in the league should never be accepted as legitimate 'achievements'.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

I would say the trophy for the richest prize in the planet is quite significant and it was you that did the comparing, I was merely pointing out your comparison was flawed. Oh modern era is it now, when does that start with the formation of the premier league, I wouldn't expect anything other from a supporter like yourself.

Link with pic of trophy

No Russ bigot wouldn't suit me better, I'll put it down to English not being your first language though rather than a cheap shot, either way it's not the right word.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

YES modern era seeing as this part of the discussion was started with talk of how Arsenal have failed to win anything in 8 years. Do keep up.

I saw that but was convinced you couldn't be serious. OK let me rephrase my point to make it easier for you: If in the 8 years (since they won the PL and were the 'Invincibles' so yes, the modern era) all Arsenal had won was the trophy for returning to the PL after an impressive relegation then yes I'd call that a crisis.

It happened to Leeds and Blackburn 20 years ago and look how quickly they became 'also-rans'. I've seen nothing to suggest Arsenal won't go the same way.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

How you wriggle Russ, it was you that said neither club had won a trophy for eight years and were wrong, you then attempted to change it to significant trophy when it's a richer prize than world cup or champions league. So the modern era is now only a decade, hardly an era, not even a decade and one in which arsenal reached a champions league final, something city and all their billions couldn't achieve.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Why bring city into the argument?

Oh, is it because City are expected to finish in the top 4, have won a title in recent years, as opposed to Arsenal who if lucky might get into top 4?

:D

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

I can admit I'm wrong, I'm not so up myself that I'm incapable of it but the general point I made stands. If that's all Arsenal won in that time then yes, a crisis.

Seriously why are you finding this so difficult to understand? I assume you're not being deliberately awkward? Yes the modern era seeing as this part of the discussion is about Arsenal's failure to win anything in the 8 years since the FA Cup in 2005.

If you don't want to call that the modern era then fine call it what you will but I'd rather you concentrate on the point at hand rather than silly games with words.

For a team like West Ham to reach the CL final during those 8 years then yes I'm sure that would be considered an almost cosmic achievement but Arsenal at that point were on the back of being a much bigger and successful team. They went from being 'invincible' to almost a comedy team. If you can't see that then frankly you don't know football.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

What was anyone really expecting, as I said it's been a miracle they're still in the top four considering they've made rivals stronger and not invested the cash. I don't think it a crisis that they haven't won a league cup during the last eight years, I think they'd rather have the consecutive champions league campaigns personally.

---------- Post added at 14:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:05 ----------

Because they've spent a fortune and arsenal haven't

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

My view is that if someone has money...they can spend it where ever they like.

Burn it, eat it..do whatever.

If foolish enough to support a football team, so be it.

there is no such thing as equal footing, and the only way you can really do that, is to state that each team can only spend a certain amount of money. if they did that, so be it. Otherwise, it is pointless to worry about money.

It isn't the money that is ruining the game, it is the idiots in charge

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Not knocking anyone for spending cash, just saying arsenal haven't and are struggling to compete, I do wonder what arsenals reason is for not spending, is there any cash there, we've heard them say there was before and it turned out there wasn't any iirc. Is it wenger or the board that can't get deals done, Gustavo, higuain and Cesar all said the wanted to join and as yet haven't.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

I can't believe there isn't cash. Not aware you have high salaries, you lost a lot of deadwood, and must have cash to burn.

The issue seems to be (from my view), this slavish insistence on not paying a penny more than the value you put on a player. whilst admirable in certain instances, sometimes you need to pay a bit more, if you really want a player.

Eg if Arsenal really wanted Higuain, pay the extra few million.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

it looks like this is happening now

http://www.gianlucadimarzio.com/calc...g-southampton/

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Could be, it's the board that does the.negotiating though and depending on wengers involvement it could be that he's shielding them again.

Btw I'm not an arsenal fan, I was a massive fan of wenger though and would.like to be again.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

City are expected to be title contenders due to the money they've invested in the squad and the considerable quality that's brought.

But this only works if you ignore the changes that occurred since the Invincible era. The stadium, the arrival of Chelsea, and so on. Arsenal didn't simply fall away. They intentionally become less competitive in order to finance a stadium which is turn would, in theory, have allowed them to compete at the highest level later. It's more a case of struggling to get back now the money is there but it's disingenuous to claim they've become a comedy team because they're not the team there were 10 years ago.

There is cash and what has happened this window is so difficult to understand. If Wenger is really refusing to buy players then his time at Arsenal is likely coming towards an end. However I live in hope that the window doesn't closed yet and that this same team actually showed quite capable towards the end of the last season so doesn't need a radical overhaul, just a sprinkling of world class talent imo...

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

i am an arsenal style of play fan...at least wenger days...never did like the 1-0 version :)

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

The only problem with outside money is that it causes unnatural inflation in wages and transfer fees. These teams can afford wages they cannot be justified by the money in football and put upward pressure on wages across the board harming clubs whose only income is that they can generate themselves. Outside money is brilliant if it's not used for wages but instead for stadium improvements, training grounds and youth development.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

But isn't any money outside money, except fan income?

Sponsorship, tv rights etc

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

No because this is income earned via the game itself. I.E Other clubs can compete for that cash by finishing higher up the league. TV Income is shared pretty well in the Premier League too. There is a problem with a self-perpetuating cycle but if you look at a club like Spurs which have very slowly built themselves up on the strength of youth and smart transfers it can work. Ditto Arsenal building a stadium.

Personally I think the NFL is healthier with it's draft system and so on.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

If that really was the case they could save face (and possibly a lot of supporters) by simply admitting it and not coming out with such brown-stuff as RVP being sold for "footballing reasons".

That sort of thing has turned them in to a comedy team.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

They sold RVP because he had a year left on his contract and wanted to leave. I would have rather kept him but Wenger clearly doesn't want players around the team that don't want to be there.

Arsenal aren't a comedy team. They've done quite well in preserving top four status without spending. What is what comical is this transfer window but there you go.

I still don't see the point. Do we want Arsenal to do better? Yes. Are they underachieving in comparison to their resources? Probably not. (City, Chelsea and United all have bigger wage bills). Should we be closing the gap by spending the money we do have? Yes. Certainly we should be in a position to lock up top four at least given the advantage we have over Spurs and we're not doing that.

History is just that. United could fall away at some point too, ask older fans of the club and they'll tell you about the drought they had for a long while. It's just what football is.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

What always makes me laugh about Wenger, is that he is blaming the ref for the losing of the game.

Look at VP, he has done wonders being at United, who had he brought in to replace him - T.Hair.

I think the Arsenal fans are entitled to moan, l believe that Arsenal should sack him, what silverware has he brought the club - Anyone else would have been sacked well before now.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

Ok if you were Arsenal manager what would you do with a 100m transfer budget and 300-400k pw wage budget minimum. the position I feel need filling are GK, CB/FB, DM, AM and CF.

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

He has to go after players, just as Spurs have.

The big problem he has is that he is not thinking - he thinks that his job is safe.

There players out there that he can go after - ie it has been said that Defoe could be on his way out of Spurs, as Spurs are looking at another striker. He has to go

Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 

he is thinking, just not the right way.

we need 5-6 players..

GK, there are many, Germany has been pointed out as having decent quality
CB, Williams/Sakho/Ginter
FB/DM/CM cover Flamini
DM Lars Bender
AM i cant name one really, I wanted Bernard but there are many still available, spoken of
CF Rooney

put that into our current mix and we've got a side that will push for the title.