Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Benefits do need to be cut, except it seems to be the genuine cases getting hit and not the ones who should be kicked off benefits. People like that woman with 11 kids who is getting a bigger council house should have her benefits cut dramatically.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Agreed Mark, did anyone watch "too fat to work" fatties stuffing themselves on kebabs, chips, burgers drinking 8 litres of coke per day on the £30,000 that we give them from our taxes to enable them to do that!

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well the benefits cap should help address that but IMHO it is capped at far to high a level.

Should be at 2/3 average take home pay and not a penny more.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

What is it with fat people and coke?
can't just drink any old pop. has to be coke.

---------- Post added at 09:48 ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 ----------

We can mug the kids at the sweet shop if we have reason to believe they got a penny over on giro day :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

PIPs disability benefit delay unlawful, says High Court.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33020987

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

http://www.netsalarycalculator.co.uk

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 ----------

Utterly ridiculous imo,but IDS said in the HoC in Februaty that everything was running smoothly,Channel 5 made a mockery of that statement.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

George Osborne considering £5bn cuts to child tax credits.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33089711

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

good news -if you can't afford to breed then don't expect the taxpayer to subsidise your life choices

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

If Dave gets any stick over this. then I suggest he says "Difficult choices have to be made"
that will get him off.

and throw in "Hard Working People" a few times.
and "Great British People" that one makes us feel special.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Tories consider cutting tax credits for working families despite election promise not to

Honest Dave:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Errr ... that's not an election promise. That's someone saying "I don't want to". Not the same at all.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I feel sorry for the people who voted him in thinking that he'll look after them and go for the others.

the lesson to be learned is 'Don't trust Dave' he hates you just as much as the 'others'

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You could say that about every politician though Gary. And Labour admitted that they would carry on the welfare system reforms if elected, so not just a case of Tories doing it. Miliband would have done it as well if elected.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It might not of been a promise but alas we all know most politicians talk with forked tongue be it from any party.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

cutting welfare will achieve nothing other than making the tax payer think the government are trying

600 billion tax and NI taken 11 billion paid to JSA and ESA less than 2% if you include housing benefits and tax credits it may increase to 5%

1.6 estimated lost in fraud 2 billion estimate loss to mistakes. The tax payer I believe pays less than a cheap Aldi loaf of bread to the workshy a week

I am all for a fair system I do not think a system where unemployed family can receive more than a working family is fair I also do not think a working family should need to claim benefits to live

We are screwed though because all the money sits at the top and only a trickle goes down to the workers the whole system is flawed

The attacks on the poor sick disabled and unemployed are measures simply to placate the tax paying voter it will not fix a thing

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Leaves a lot of people in a bit of a quandry given women over 30 are being complained at for leaving having children until too late, in many cases until they are financially stable and ideally also have a stable housing tenure.

So women shouldn't have kids in their 30s because it increases costs on the NHS, and they shouldn't have kids if they can't afford them without in-work benefits. Meanwhile we also mustn't cut welfare for pensioners and immigration is too high, so exactly where the money is going to come from to fund these sacred benefits for retirees in the future is anyone's guess.

Perhaps some more effort on fixing the causes of the high welfare bill rather than simply trying to trim it would be a plan? Admittedly wouldn't have the political 'wow' factor that benefit caps and cuts would and may actually involve investment, perish the thought.

TLDR: Build some, or a lot, of bloody houses and other essential infrastructure, ensuring as many UK nationals as possible are trained and employed in these tasks and raise the minimum wage.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The cuts are designed to get those who should be working and claiming off benefits and into work. Unfortunately, a lot of people who genuinely should be claiming ESA, incapacity, etc. are being caught up in this. My aunt, who has arthritis in her spine and cannot walk without a walking stick, had her medical questionnaire through last year. One question was can you make a hot drink on your own without help. If you say yes, then you are fit for work. My aunt, who is too honest for her own good, said yes she can make a hot drink for herself. She has been told she can claim ESA, but is also OK to work if she can find a job where she can alternate sitting and walking.

A lot of it is not the fault of the Government, but rather the company who assesses people.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

that is my point the DWPs own figures show the amount lost to workshy is tiny. Yes you are right they should be made to look for work, The assessments are over strict and hit the wrong people but have you seen the hoops you have to jump through to claim JSA long term? which is a good thing of course but then you get the unfair sanctions.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Claiming free money ought to be made a lot easier. It must be tiresome qualifying a claim when one is used to simply presenting an outstretched hand to be obligingly filled by every passing taxpayer :).

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33221966

Percentages rounded.

So where do you think the axe will fall? I suspect Tax Credits and Housing Benefits, with a continuation of the attack against the Disabled.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I know how to sort it.
A cut of 12 billion is needed.

so 5.5% = 12 billion.
give everyone a cut of 5.5% regardless of what benefit they're on. problem solved.

that equates to £5.50 in every £100.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yes that's what l hear as well is that Tax Credits and Housing Benefits will be massively hit and one suspects disabled benefits will be cut as well.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The government simply cannot get away with this.

Its always the poor and the vulnerable that get hit, in these cuts. Look at it this way.

If l had to find a job, say 15000 per year (which l wouldn't), I can then apply for tax credits to get me up to a 'living wage'

I would then have to pay bills - these WILL go up, as they always do. The government doesn't make utility companies have a cap.

So at the end of the bills, l will be poor and not be able to afford much, amnd nothing left to buy food etc.

What they are doing is cruel. I suspect within 12 months, this country will come to a halt.

Osborne and Cameron just want the poor to get poorer. They make me sick to the stomach

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That could actually prove to be true.
I've always suspected that Dave hates the poor and such. and think that the whole agenda is to get people put in their place from the start.

and when you see the train having no cuts and billions pumped into it. and talk of pumping billions into Parliament. millions and millions going abroad. no serious money saving cut backs in parliament and such.

then you know he's not serious about the defecit.
that is just a smoke screen.
they really do want to divide this country and put everyone in their place. with people like him at the top and everyone else at the bottom.

his cover will be blown soon. working families and tax credits is the start of his cover being blown.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Didn't you say the same things in 2010?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think it was around 2011 with the riots I noticed. Dave was made a fool of and he's still on a vendetta.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

wot an italian scooter

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

:D No, you're thinking of the ichifani 500.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yes, because the Prime Minister set the Met up to shoot Mark Duggan.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yeh. a nice bright pink one.

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------

Thanks for telling me anyway.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I can see something seriously happening in London quite soon in revenge to Cameron and Co.

The government cannot be allowed to rip of the poor, and then send billions abroad in aid

There are going to be people that cannot work due to a disability, and bcoming seriously ill and passing away - and the family sueing the British Government for the death

Wasn't there a court case when the government was told it was illegal ?

I am sure my mates on here might prove me wrong

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Arthur can you please get it into your head we make a good profit on every pound we spend on foreign aid we do not give it for free it's used to grease wheels for business deals that keep British workers in work and bring far more money into the country then is ever sent out in foreign aid. These current conservatives are going to do great damage to society in the UK with the rather scummy decisive tactics they use to set different sections of society against each other but that only works if society allows it so blame on both sides. They have zero interest in addressing welfare in meaningful ways because they love their friends in business and don't want to do a thing to curtail their abuses of our welfare system. Whatever this country is after they have gone it will not be a happier friendlier society that's for damn sure but they already have enough people conned that opposing them puts you in the pro skiver camp :rolleyes:.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Gruniad

7% of all the benefits in the world are paid to UK citizens - 30 million receive some sort of state benefit. :rolleyes:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Fixed

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Correct. :tu: Forgot we also are so generous to anyone who manages to edge up on the shores of old Blighty that they'll die trying.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

How many come from the 7.5 million people living in England and Wales that were not born in the UK. Then add in the children of those 7.5m. That is a large proportion, 13%.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Please remember the State Pension comes out of the welfare budget too so all the figures given include that and it is easily the largest single bill in the budget

---------- Post added at 11:40 ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 ----------

http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...ensions-age-68 figures here show that providing state pensions and winter fuel payments to the elderly cost 94 billion in 2013/14. This comes out the welfare budget. 220 billion is the figures posted so the 94 billion is over 40% of the total? nearly a 6th of the tax and NI take that year. I am not saying stop this all am I am saying is its not just the sick and unemployed taking the money. In fact ESA and JSA combined is a small fraction of the 94 billion

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

There has to be a case for requiring better off pensioners to share the pain in some way. Quite how this would best be done I don't know, but it can't be right just to rule it out without seeing if anything meaningful, can be done to ease the burden elsewhere, especially for the most vulnerable in society.

I wish there was also a way of making those companies and individuals who irresponsibly ran up vast debt and were allowed to walk away from most of it, pay it back but that doesn't seem to me to be a priority for any government.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Don't you think they've had their share of pain? I've no doubt some will remember not having much more than a few slices of bread to eat, war, power cuts and none of the handouts given to modern day layabouts.

A pension isn't a freebee; it's earned. It's not for sharing out amongst those who feel their 'benefits' are being 'unfairly' reduced.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

l think Osem is talking about pensioners who are so well off that they simply don't need the old age pension as they have considerable resources to cope without it as some do who are getting other benefits as well.

---------- Post added at 17:00 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

There you go again misrepresenting the vast majority of people on benefits as scroungers when anybody who has normal intelligence knows that not to be true because as we all know its a small minority who sit on their asses or defraud the system but then again what else can you expect when one is educated by the Daily Mail , The Sun , The Express or various other rags.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well-off pensioners will pay tax on their post retirement income and that includes their state pension. As such they already get an effective reduction in the state pension that they receive.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Thanks for telling me that nomad.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Layabouts are layabouts. How does that make me of less than normal intelligence or a Sun reader?

Unless you're an insulted layabout.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

l have no sympathy for layabouts or cheats at all but don't go throwing labels around which you have done before that most people on benefits are scroungers, cheats and skivers because that is a total misrepresentation of the facts which you seem have completely ignored so you can get your prejudiced views over.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think you need to read my posts again. I refer to layabouts. You have added the bits about scroungers, cheats and skivers. You seem prejudiced against anyone who dares to mention 'benefits'.

The Chancellor is coming...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Looks as though we're in mid-table obscurity to me.

http://www.oecd.org/els/soc/OECD2014...014-8pages.pdf

What happens to this figure if pensions are removed from it?

Would it not be far less misleading to quote figures for working age cash benefits only, given those are the ones the Chancellor is going after with welfare cuts?

Perhaps if wages reflected the cost of living and their increase better reflected increases in productivity in our economy rather than going to the top, and over £20 billion a year weren't being handed to landlords, a fair proportion to help house people who are in work, we'd be in better shape.

Either way a really rather weak attempt to justify policies with an ideological, not practical motive. There are other ways to deal with the bill than welfare cuts.

EDIT: I see the forum humanitarian of the decade being his usual self going by the quotes and advocating aggressive welfare cuts.

Here're some comments from that well-known far-left bleeding heart liberal group the Institute of Economic Affairs indicating that simply cutting tax credits is grossly unfair on those it may affect.

I have no more time for those who can, but won't, work than anyone else. However simply taking a hatchet to the working poor is just cynical and cruel. It's not their fault our economy has spent a few decades pushing wealth upwards, or that it rewards non-productive investment so much more than productive labour, or that their housing costs are extortionate relative to incomes.

If we are going to reduce welfare we absolutely must make work pay via a combination of taking those on minimum wage out of both income tax and pretend National Insurance, aka income tax 2nd edition, and we must ensure costs of living and wages better reflect one another. In-work welfare should not exist. That it does indicates that our private sector is taking the taxpayer for a ride and that we as a country have failed to make work pay.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Labour brought in the tax credits system with the deliberate intention of increasing benefits. The public borrowing started up around that time. It is that excessive amount paid out in tax credits that has to be corrected. The problem is that there will be a lot of squealing if that is done.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It has already started :D

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

l have nothing against anybody who wants to talk about benefits as long as the debate is reasoned thought out and not driven by their own prejudiced views on benefits.

Also l am fine about Welfare reform as long as its fair and proportional which quite clearly it ain't.

---------- Post added at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

The things is David Cameron is saying employers should take the strain and pay their workers more to balance the expected shortfall in reduced tax credits but can you see the employers paying more?.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

If you are referring to "my" prejudiced views, didn't you just say above that you had no time for layabouts and cheats? It seems we share the same prejudices :confused:.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Tax credits were introduced in 1999. Our debt to GDP ratio continued to fall until 2003, and even after that the current budget was still in balance for a time after 2003 with the borrowing being soaked up by capital expenditure.

Tax credits were introduced for a similar reason to the minimum wage - an attempt to arrest the increase in the UK's GINI coefficient and subsidise lower paid work to reduce reliance on out of work welfare. Google GINI it if you don't know what that is, but given you're so certain it was just about building a client state I won't hold my breath.

Try not to let facts get in the way of a nice rant.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

l think the difference is you think everybody on benefits sits on their bloody ass and is a scrounger/skiver where my point its a tiny minority who do that thus you are misrepresenting the facts because of your deep prejudices about benefit claimants.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Quite embarrassing thinking I used to be a Libertarian type and hold similar attitudes.

Then I grew up and became simply small 'l' liberal.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Tax Credits Act 2002
What has debt to GDP ratio got to do with it? Even though public debt as a %age of GDP still increased prior to 2008. I am talking about having to borrow when you shouldn't. We are talking about around £40bn each year prior to 2008. In household terms if you have a good income and you are still having to take out additional loans, your spending is too high. The previous systems to tax credits were less generous but were still acceptable.

After 2008 you had the changing of housing benefit with the Local Housing Allowance which was AGAIN far too generous(50th percentile rather than the current 30th). Labour admitted as much in a 2009 report. That again increased borrowing more than it needed to.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I really don't think anyone believes that Den. We all know there are lots of people with conditions, disabilities etc. which prevent them from working. We also know that there are people who could work but don't want to and prefer to exist on benefits of one sort or another. That's undeniable. We can argue about the proportions of each and the extent of abuse in the system but I've never heard anyone seriously claim all benefits claimants are scroungers.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

l know everybody does not believe that Osem but there is a very vocal bunch out there who would have us believe that being a benefit claimant is akin to being a leper of society and thus have no hesitation in demonising benefit claimants as that when we know that's simply not true.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

But it is the fastest growing bill to the tax payer and the welfare system and is estimated to be as much as the total welfare bill is now by 2030

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

@ Den - I think if pressed, most of these people, even if they do make crass statements to that effect, would have to accept that they're talking nonsense when pressed. It's easy to take isolated comments and extrapolate from them all sorts of things which aren't true and were never intended. People who're unaffected by disability will obviously not understand the reality which those afflicted face and say silly things, but in most cases that's more down to knee jerk, uninformed, reaction than any serious thought process with evidence to support it.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Tax credits is about 30 billion a year less than 5% of the total tax and NI take and a lot of it is paid to workers

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The Government, and Local Government, as desperate to get out of the Pension Game.

Masses of Public Servants made redundant to reduce the future bills. Changes to pensions schemes to move more, and eventually all of us, onto private schemes.

Unfortunately the economic downturn has meant poor performance in Pensions Schemes worldwide, so there will be a big shortfall one day.

So they will try to reduce all other "benefits" so that there will be enough to pay the State, Civil Service and Local Government Service pensions that already exist. But one day those pensions will gobble up all we have to spend.

And then we could end up like Greece.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well off pensioners almost certainly have had their fair share of pain but they're well off and can obviously afford to receive a little less.

Our children are not to blame for the mess we're in but they're going to have to pay for it their whole lives and work longer because of it. That's not fair either.

Many pensioners are really struggling, however, and it'd be wrong to expect them to pay more/receive less but a good number are doing very nicely thank you and although that may be down to their prudence, they can't really expect to be immune form the pain any more than our kids can. It may be unfair but blame is irrelevant because you can only take from those who have something.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

My Dad get 28.5 k a year pension and still gets state pension yes he paid his stamp and yes he should get it but with people living longer the figures keep rising yet no one ever brings it up. When is it to much ? when its 200 billion in 2030? and I bet the sick and unemployed are still blamed then

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That was a reform, tax credits began in 1999.

Ratio is everything for the simple reason that that's how the debt burden of economies are judged. I seem to have to repeat that over and over again.

Strangely enough nation states aren't households and shouldn't be run like them. It gets really boring have to say that over and over again too.

What do poor people do with money? Do they stash it in the Cayman Islands or do they, perhaps, spend it? There is a multiplier effect, which is why welfare cuts have had a pretty bad effect on the Greek economy. The IMF actually mentioned that that multiplier was worse than 1 in the case of Greece - they anticipated it being 0.5.

Sorry, again I'm bringing facts and economics into an attempt to bash welfare. I'll stop.

---------- Post added at 19:07 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

The poverty rate is higher among those of working age than pensioners now. Pensioners and those near retirement have done best out of all age demographics over the past 7 years.

A good number are doing very nicely and it's far less to do with prudence and far more to do with generous final salary pension schemes, subsidised by those currently working and far more generous than their schemes, alongside rampant property price inflation.

We have an entire generation that have had massively good fortune. It's not that hard to say 'Lucky them' rather than trying to make out they were somehow so much 'better' than following generations. I have no idea why people refuse to say that in many cases it's purely about when they were born, or that it's those who are working who are footing the bill in a variety of ways.

If we follow the kind of policies you seem to want our children won't be able to 'pay for it' because we'll have failed to provide them the education and infrastructure they need to be competitive in the future, and be leeching what wealth they do have from them in overpriced housing, which is nothing more than a transfer of wealth to the well housed from those who are not.

---------- Post added at 19:11 ---------- Previous post was at 19:07 ----------

The Labour and then Conservative governments, in concert with the Bank of England, basically fiddling the books to save the arses of insolvent banks has meant poor performance in pension schemes as these tend to hold large amounts of sovereign debt and the yield on that debt has been hugely depressed through quantitative easing and unjustifiably low interest rates.

That said, share prices are inflated through the roof. So if your plan is heavy on stocks you're good to go. Most aren't though, because at some point that bubble will brutally burst.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You seem to be a mind reader.

You say that I think everybody on benefits sits on their bloody ass and is a scrounger/skiver and that I misrepresent the facts because of my deep prejudices about benefit claimants.

Those are unpleasant accusations. Substantiate them.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

He won't,he never does ,I gave up trying to his accusations against me substantiated ages ago ,no where in your posts have you or anyone ever said or hinted that all benefit claimants are scroungers but Den (and a few others) like to throw accusations about to perpetuate the myth that society is turning against all benefit claimants

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------

Any way maybe the answer with state pensions is to scrap them all together and simply have an old age benefit which would only be given to pensioners who didn't have x amount income per year

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Because that will initially drive up prices and ultimately reduce investment in those companies resulting in power cuts. Look at South Africa.

No, you numpty, they want the poor to get richer so that they can pay more tax. :dozey:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I know you're right, he knows you're right. There seems to be a collective persecution complex :D. I can't think why (but Den will know for me).....

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

So, according to the pie chart in this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...12billion.html

The majority of welfare is spent on pensions. Would anyone object to the pension pot being cut drastically?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Personally, I would cut the tax credits. Saves a lot of money in one go right there.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well that's where Cameron's merry-go-round comes in: People paying income tax and then getting it back as credits. Eliminate that and you get savings in eliminating the burocrasy that has to administer it. If people can keep more of their wages they might work a little harder too by not being penalised.

I'll let you explain to the poor old biddy next door how you're going to reduce her pension.:erm:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The Conservatives won't cut the state pension as it will lose them several million votes.

---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:15 ----------

That's a very big if as once they remove tax credits David Cameron has stated that he is expecting employers to make up the difference that people will have lost with the removal of tax credits through better wages which given our increasingly low wage economy looks highly unlikely as many employers will try to get away with paying as little as they can.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Just look at how small the JSA figure is relative to everything. The Housing benefit is shared amongst all of them ESA has doubled but that will be because everyone is on it now.

15 billion to the sick disabled and unemployed out of a total tax and NI take of 600 billion. Even if you add the tax credits to it makes in 40 billion that is still <8% How many of these claimants do you think do not need the money? 10% 4 billion out of 600? 20% 8 billion?

The figures make it clear to me the cut they make are not going to all of a sudden make the tax payer better off then we will never see a penny of it anyway

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------

But the State pension is growing massively what can be done about that

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I asked about pensions, because you can guarantee someone will look at that pie chart and say that the pensioners need to have curs made as well. I don't think it is so much how much a pensioner gets, more the fact that more and more people now compared to 100 years ago are reaching a pensionable age.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

As I said earlier. a cut of around 6% on all benefits will sort it.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

6 % of 200 billion is only 12 billion what is that going to do ? it will just get swallowed up

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

To save the 12 billion?
isn't that the point?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

All ideas that I have heard from friends recently.....

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I like that one. just to pee them off.

but I'd raise it to 25 to pee them off a bit more :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

urinating in the wind that is my point

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

So if we can't do everything, we shouldn't do anything?

A couple of billion here, a couple of billion there, it soon adds up to serious money.....

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

of course but although distasteful I want to know what is going to be done with the state pension. I believe that has risen 12 billion in a couple of years and will continue to. Ok if they stop tax credits now sorted cut ESA and housing benefit great in a few years the state pension will have swallowed that up and increased. The estimates are plain over 200 billion by 2030 that is only 15 years I still wont be eligible then it is an unsustainable rise the highest in the welfare bill what is going to be done with that? Nothing? because all I ever see is we cant not make cuts to the poor pensioner

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:02 ----------

http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...zoomed-picture 2011 /12 figures show State pension 74 billion

the graph here shows 88 billion http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...12billion.html

so a 14 billion increase in a few years. If it continues? by 2018 it will be 100 billion by 2020 120 billion

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

So you don't want the benefits you are eligible for touched but you do want our seniors robbed of something they have earned?

Thought so.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The state pension will continue with its triple lock increases for the foreseeable as it's part of the bribes politicians throw at people for their votes.

Obviously with the state pension changes this is even less accurate, and I'm ignoring that our welfare system is almost entirely not contributory and those with poor pensions will have it topped up by pension credit. The state pension is paid for by today's taxpayers, and has increased as a proportion of the economy massively. There is a huge demographic time bomb there of too few workers for too many pensioners which is part of the reason why the government are trying to find other ways to help them fund their retirement, which also sadly involve transfers of wealth from workers but they are better able to hide them.

The issue of pensioner welfare is and always will be emotive. Add that to that they are a big cohort demographically with a high voting rate and you've no chance of any politicians doing anything that too obviously disadvantages them.

It's just a part of the money that the government, I'm talking in general there, spends on purchasing votes. I'm afraid the client state is alive and well, just the parties respectively have different clients.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

lol Ever spiralling welfare bill will be down to the state pension it will grow and grow this is a reality. The figures speak for themselves. I am just being real not blinkered

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well, I shouldn't overly concern yourselves; there are plenty of options for making savings in other areas of the welfare budget with pensions, rightly in my view, protected.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You're actually entirely accurate there. Since 2012-13 welfare outside of that being paid to pensioners has dropped while the pensioner welfare bill continues to rise.

It'll also only get worse if wage growth remains weak, as pensions are guaranteed to rise by at least 2.5% even if inflation and wage growth run below that level.

Ignore Kursk; he appears to live in a different reality. A selfish, misanthropic one at that.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Regarding pensions - at the moment, I will be receiving my state pension when I am 66 years and 8 months old (according to the Government website), by which time I will have worked (with a six month gap when I was redundant) for 49 years.

Last year I paid nearly £20k in tax (which I have no issue with), and over £4k in NI contributions.

I have contributed to a couple (probably six) pension schemes, and have worked out my total pension, including state pension, will be taxed by the equivalent of the state pension amount.

So if because I have been prudent and put money into pension funds for my retirement (and I will be taxed on these as income), are people seriously suggesting I shouldn't get the state pension?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Lets face it the older generation at the moment have it made, they didn't pay much into the NHS pre decimalisation, living costs were lower, they get free bus passes, discounted offers and they got to retire at a much younger age.

I'm 37, living costs through the roof, Me and my wife earn too much to any state help. I'm on 17.8k a year wife is on around 10k a year so we are above tax credits. Nursery fees in 2010 were £28 a day now I pay £41 a day and nothing has changed in the nursery to justify the increase other than they stopped doing breakfasts for the kids now.

I'm confused where the Gov says average wage is about 23k

My latest pension forecast was something like 55k if I work till 69+10 months which is when they say I can claim state pension, while some have just retired in the NHS at 55. my wife is 6 years older than me so if I go at 70 she'll be 76 what kind of life will we have left together

So while I agree with cuts by the time I get old there is going to be a population growth of old people that out way the young that I can't even imagine a state pension by the time I retire as I can't see their being enough money to support them

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

In all honesty yes because you do not need it. The state pension is part of the welfare budget in all honesty Hugh do you need welfare? will you ever need it?

I know what the state pension was meant to be originally but this failed. I do find it amusing that a guy on a high end wage wants his state pension irrelevant of where it comes from

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Wowsers :erm:

If you ever need to borrow a few quid give me a shout ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yes. Because pensioners are the ones who have paid into the system all their lives. :shrug:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I need £10,000 - £50,000.
be generous and God bless you :)

---------- Post added at 13:16 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

Not even £1 a week?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That is a good but emotive reason. It is unsustainable it is a bad medicine to swallow but if it does not change then the welfare bill will grow and grow no matter what cuts are made

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Irrelevant of where it came from?

There was me thinking part of it came from me working solidly for 49 years, happily contributing through tax (at least 40% for the last 20 and the next 8 years) and NI....

Don't forget, I will be taxed on my pensions, including the state pension, so the country will be getting it back - or should I just not bother paying into my pension, and spend all the money now....

ymmv....

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

There it is people.

It's where we've been heading for some time now.

The "you provide for me" culture

The you've worked hard all your life, been a net contributor to the system, well we want it all, and you can't have anything back - you richer than me greedy *******. You keep paying for me.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

yes and fair play I respect you for it. I am sure you have had a high standard of living and enjoyed a good life for your hard work to? and you have self respect. As I said it is a very emotive subject but still alters nothing really the state pension is rapidly increasing and is unsustainable

---------- Post added at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:26 ----------

utter crap

All I am saying is the state pension keeps rising and no one is prepared to accept it is a problem. Instead you have a pop and totally ignore the facts

Having to repeat myself because people ignore what I am saying and make assumptions that I want their tax

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That's plainly unfair. My point of view is different to yours; that doesn't make me selfish or misanthropic. There are also others here who agree with my point of view.

Pensioners have earned their pension through times that have been difficult but they didn't bleat about it. Those who want to enjoy similar security will have to earn it too.

I suggest they get on with it instead of expending all their energy crying woe is me.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I can see both points of view but we are getting his hard from all areas, while they might be able to sustain the current state pension my gripe is that there are a lot of old folks now that retired at 55/60

I have to work a further 10 years beyond that to get state pension. so while these oldies are bleating on about paying in all their lives and living it up at being able to go at 55/60 and thinking of themselves lets look at the younger generation that are having to work 10/15 or even 20 years longer to keep those older ones going.

At the moment like I said it's 70 for me state pension but that's under this current Gov. I've got 33 years left to work to reach 70 we are talking about 5/6 general elections in my working life time and their either wont be a state pension by then or I'll be working till 100 to claim

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

On the bright side, we are living longer nowadays...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Those in their 20's and 30's will have to provide for their own pensions as the giant Ponzie state scheme is coming to a shuddering halt. The triangle is collapsing as the population ages.

I think we have a duty to provide for those who have decades of contributions. The real losers here are likely to be those in their forties and early fifties, being caught between being unable to build a personal pension pot and the state pension falling in value.