Cable Forum - Russia has invaded Ukraine

Decades of cuts to the UK armed forces have left the Royal Air Force a runt of its former self with far too few planes, pilots and instructors to teach new talent.

Ukraine's air force is in desperate need of multi-role jets - aircraft that can fight in the air, such as by taking out missiles or attacking enemy aircraft and bomb targets on the ground.

The Royal Air Force had exactly the right kind of airframe for such a task and had enough in stock to be able to offer some away to a friendly nation in need - the Tornado GR4.

Unfortunately, all of those aircraft were retired from service four years ago to save money.

It all makes any talk of the UK giving fast jets to Ukraine sound hollow, potentially raising false hopes at a time when the Ukrainian military just needs credible answers.

An RAF source said it was nonsense to think the UK could offer fast jets to Ukraine.

"Tranche 1 [Typhoon] are just training aircraft no good for combat," the source said.

"The Tornado is a fantastic jet, but too difficult to maintain, operate and they will now be in disrepair or mothballs. Going nowhere for months."

Anything else would be "too expensive, complicated, we don't have any spare".

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sun...acity-12806431

Hugh	09-02-2023 10:12

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

I wondered about that - the current operational fighter aircraft of the RAF are Typhoons FGR4s and Lightning F35Bs; can’t see us giving any of them away, and the training time (pilots and ground crew) would be too long anyway.

1andrew1

09-02-2023 10:25

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36145497)

Can other countries help? Is it back to equipment they are used to from their ex-Iron Curtain neighbours?

peanut

09-02-2023 10:56

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

This country is fecked but they still find money to help fund a war and to make ourselves a bigger target in the process. What a joke. Surely it should be a collective NATO response to what we can and can't do to provide or supply. Why does UK always have to be first in the queue to butt into everything that goes on.

Pierre

09-02-2023 11:11

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36145494)

Good article here on why we have no suitable jets for Ukraine.

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sun...acity-12806431

Ground attack Tornados were retired along with the Harrier because they were uneconomical and couldn't be upgraded.

The Typhoon, originally an air superiority jet, has effectively been upgraded to a 4.5gen aircraft has now also taken over the Tornado's ground attack capability.

And obviously we have the F35's

But both these aircraft are just too expensive, complicated and valuable to be given away.

If the Ukraine want ground attack capability they'd be better off with Reaper drones.

1andrew1

09-02-2023 13:26

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36145503)

What you and Sky News say makes sense but the question is why Sunak said nothing is off the table? To demoralise Russia? To put pressure on France and other NATO members?

Also, just flagging it's Ukraine, not the Ukraine.

Hugh	09-02-2023 13:51

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36145510)

He’s sending positive vibes, rather than just saying "no, we don’t have anything you could use"…

pip08456

09-02-2023 18:39

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36145513)

He’s sending positive vibes, rather than just saying "no, we don’t have anything you could use"…

He's also said the UK will begin training Ukrainian pilots.What will they be training on?

Sephiroth

09-02-2023 19:01

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanut (Post 36145502)

Might a collective NATO response risk a greater chance of WWII in one for or another?

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36145510)

Thank goodness it's not the UK!

Hugh	09-02-2023 19:53

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36145543)

He's also said the UK will begin training Ukrainian pilots.What will they be training on?

Simulators, like RAF & Navy pilots do…

https://des.mod.uk/fighter-heralds-a...-jet-training/

https://www.inavateonthenet.net/news...aining-options

Or the basic training on Prefects, Texas T1s, and Hawk T2s.

Chris

09-02-2023 19:56

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

A lot of the training NATO fast jet pilots receive isn’t type specific. They eventually qualify on the jet they’re going to specialise on but prior to that is all the basic flight training and then a lot of tactical stuff that’s the same regardless.

Mr K	09-02-2023 20:53

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Maybe we could do an exchange with Ukraine. Our fighter pilots for their plumbers, it's a win win.

Damien

09-02-2023 21:49

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

From the sounds of it, we don't think there is a realistic prospect of giving them planes until soon but we will go ahead anyway with a view that post-war Ukraine will need an army sharpish to avoid further invasions.