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-   -   Updated: Boris resigns as party leader (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710650)

Mick 23-05-2022 19:35
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36123307)
He said guidelines were followed, not simply that he followed them.
Anyway. David Davis has just said on Farage, all depends on the Privileges Committee who could decide regardless of what MET Police or Sue Gray report says, that he mislead Parliament.

jfman 23-05-2022 19:47
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Cummings will have more allies in No. 10 than Johnson has with his scorched earth policy of saving his own skin at any expense. If not the source of the leak, Dom will almost certainly know who the most likely candidates are. Depending on who Johnson’s successor is - he may also be fairly well connected enough to ensure his sources survive the transition.

Dom may be out, but he defo has more to offer some of the candidates for leadership of the Conservative Party.

Mick 23-05-2022 19:59
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36123317)
Cummings will have more allies in No. 10 than Johnson has with his scorched earth policy of saving his own skin at any expense. If not the source of the leak, Dom will almost certainly know who the most likely candidates are. Depending on who Johnson’s successor is - he may also be fairly well connected enough to ensure his sources survive the transition.

Dom may be out, but he defo has more to offer some of the candidates for leadership of the Conservative Party.
I don’t think so.

1andrew1 23-05-2022 21:01
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36123317)
Cummings will have more allies in No. 10 than Johnson has with his scorched earth policy of saving his own skin at any expense. If not the source of the leak, Dom will almost certainly know who the most likely candidates are. Depending on who Johnson’s successor is - he may also be fairly well connected enough to ensure his sources survive the transition.

Dom may be out, but he defo has more to offer some of the candidates for leadership of the Conservative Party.
If any civil servants were wavering about sharing snaps of Partygate, as well as the valid reason you outlined, the following would prod them in that direction as well:
  • Looming cuts of 90,000 staff.
  • Those cuts being leaked to a tabloid before informing staff.
  • JRM's passive-aggressive sniping at civil servants working from home.

1andrew1 23-05-2022 21:07
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1653336402

Damien 23-05-2022 22:27
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
The Times is reporting Johnson pressured Sue Gray to drop her report in the meeting: https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status...47678553169922

OLD BOY 23-05-2022 23:15
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36123295)
Yes, maybe, if he just came in and raised a glass then I can see why he wasn't fined. I don't really know the details here and I assume the Met police do.

I think the main problem for him is the statement he gave in Parliament saying all rules were followed when here it's clear they were not. Johnson can escape a fine if he wasn't really there for long but it's clear this was a social event unless he really is pretty bloody stupid.
A farewell speech to a colleague clearly counts as a work event.

Some of those present clearly took it too far.

---------- Post added at 23:15 ---------- Previous post was at 23:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36123307)
He said guidelines were followed, not simply that he followed them.
He said he was told that all the guidelines were followed.

1andrew1 24-05-2022 00:22
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36123325)
He said he was told that all the guidelines were followed.
Old Boy, let's debate on the basis of what Johnson actually said as oppose to what you or I wished he had said.

Quote:
1.20: What I can tell the right honourable gentleman is that...is that all guidance was followed completely during number 10.
1.28: I can tell you that the guidelines were followed at all times
1.34: I have satisfied myself that the guidelines were followed at all times
Scroll down to the video at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61081386

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36123325)
A farewell speech to a colleague clearly counts as a work event.

Some of those present clearly took it too far.
Important post below from Lewis Goodall referencing the four ITV photos from 13 November 2020. The Metropolitan Police have fined some attendees on this date, making it an illegal party.

Quote:
On 8th December 2021 Catherine West asked Boris Johnson in the Commons “whether there was a party in Downing St on 13th Nov?”

PM: “No. But but I’m sure whatever happened the guidance... and the rules were followed at all times.”

Clip here. For the Prime Minister not to have misled MPs he would again have to argue that he believed that what he attended in the picture was not a “party”. This question now likely to be central in the days ahead.
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/st...62197840633857

Chris 24-05-2022 07:45
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Let’s face it, if 4 bottles of wine, 3 bottles of champagne and a bottle of gin on your desk shouts “normal day at the office” to you, you have a whole other set of problems.

OLD BOY 24-05-2022 07:50
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36123330)
Old Boy, let's debate on the basis of what Johnson actually said as oppose to what you or I wished he had said.


Scroll down to the video at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61081386



Important post below from Lewis Goodall referencing the four ITV photos from 13 November 2020. The Metropolitan Police have fined some attendees on this date, making it an illegal party.


https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/st...62197840633857
Andrew, he stated originally that this is what he was told. He said it in Parliament. If he didn’t keep repeating ‘he was told’, it matters not, because that was clearly his understanding. A lot of this was going on behind his back, so clearly he was relying on what he had been told. He can’t be everywhere, and he is a busy man.

As for people being fined at the event Boris Johnson did attend, as far as he was concerned, it was a farewell speech. It’s what happens at work when someone leaves, so it was a work event.

If others were fined it’s because they stayed as it turned into more of a social event.

Chris 24-05-2022 08:00
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36123338)
Andrew, he stated originally that this is what he was told. He said it in Parliament. If he didn’t keep repeating ‘he was told’, it matters not, because that was clearly his understanding. A lot of this was going on behind his back, so clearly he was relying on what he had been told. He can’t be everywhere, and he is a busy man.

As for people being fined at the event Boris Johnson did attend, as far as he was concerned, it was a farewell speech. It’s what happens at work when someone leaves, so it was a work event.

If others were fined it’s because they stayed as it turned into more of a social event.
The phrase “I was told” is standard ministerial weasel wording, used precisely when said minister is saying stuff they know could well be untrue, so that if it eventually hits the fan they can claim they weren’t lying because they were misled.

There is, however, no way any sane person could have been credulous enough to believe that event wasn’t a party even if directly told it wasn’t one. You can take your pick out of lying, insanity or gullibility (or a combo, I’m not bothered - but at least one of them applies).

Getting bogged down in the technicalities of what constitutes a lie to parliament is precisely the smoke-screen that’s meant to fool us. As they say in Australia, Blind Freddie could see that was a party. That it occurred while people were forced to stay away from their dying loved ones is a national outrage. I can’t think of any senior minister, of any colour, who would have tried to brass out something even half as awful as this. Boris Johnson has got to go because I seriously dislike what the political state of our nation has become if he doesn’t.

Damien 24-05-2022 08:17
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36123337)
Let’s face it, if 4 bottles of wine, 3 bottles of champagne and a bottle of gin on your desk shouts “normal day at the office” to you, you have a whole other set of problems.
Or you work in a pretty good office.

Sephiroth 24-05-2022 08:29
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
If ordinary folk couldn’t go to a funeral, you would have thought that the supreme lawmaker would take one look at the Lee Cain event and say that this cannot be right. Everything bad they say about Boris is correct. Pity it’s the Labour idiots that are shouting loudest.

1andrew1 24-05-2022 08:31
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36123338)
Andrew, he stated originally that this is what he was told. He said it in Parliament. If he didn’t keep repeating ‘he was told’, it matters not, because that was clearly his understanding. A lot of this was going on behind his back, so clearly he was relying on what he had been told. He can’t be everywhere, and he is a busy man.

As for people being fined at the event Boris Johnson did attend, as far as he was concerned, it was a farewell speech. It’s what happens at work when someone leaves, so it was a work event.

If others were fined it’s because they stayed as it turned into more of a social event.
You don't have a link for your quote. Even if he said that before, his final quote "I have satisfied myself that the guidelines were followed at all times" is sufficient for my purposes.

If you think that table of booze did not suggest a party was imminent or in progress, I would have difficulty in trusting in your eyesight or common sense.

Maggy 24-05-2022 08:36
Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36123340)
The phrase “I was told” is standard ministerial weasel wording, used precisely when said minister is saying stuff they know could well be untrue, so that if it eventually hits the fan they can claim they weren’t lying because they were misled.

There is, however, no way any sane person could have been credulous enough to believe that event wasn’t a party even if directly told it wasn’t one. You can take your pick out of lying, insanity or gullibility (or a combo, I’m not bothered - but at least one of them applies).

Getting bogged down in the technicalities of what constitutes a lie to parliament is precisely the smoke-screen that’s meant to fool us. As they say in Australia, Blind Freddie could see that was a party. That it occurred while people were forced to stay away from their dying loved ones is a national outrage. I can’t think of any senior minister, of any colour, who would have tried to brass out something even half as awful as this. Boris Johnson has got to go because I seriously dislike what the political state of our nation has become if he doesn’t.
:tu:


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