Cable Forum - The state benefits system mega-thread.

Paying 6 million people some form of illness or disability related support payment, as well as 2.9 million people being paid Carers or Attendance Allownace, is a strange form of "genocide’.

You made the provocative statement, you back it up - I’m not doing your work for you...

nomadking

04-09-2019 20:41

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36008764)

Many people do genuinely believe that the situation is now so serious, that it is a deliberate form of genocide with regards to disabled people.

The DWP have done everything that they can to prevant access to data to support or deny this claim.

The data simply isn't there in the first place. They are not going to record cause of death etc. It was never there before 2010, so you could just as easily ask "what were Labour hiding"? Even if they did record cause of death, it would be meaningless.

I could just as easily ask put in a Freedom of Information request asking "how many people die within 6 years of a Labour council being elected". Seeing as it is forever being claimed that people in better off areas, live longer and tend to vote Conservative. I could claim proof that having a Labour Council kills people. The death rates in the Labour council areas will tend to be higher.

I could claim that the SNP is killing people.
Link

Quote:

Scotland has the highest rate of avoidable death in the UK and the figures are getting worse, BBC analysis has found.
In 2016, the rate stood at 301 deaths per 100,000 people, compared with 287 in 2014.

The evidence is all there, isn't it?:rolleyes:

RichardCoulter

06-09-2019 16:26

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Some interesting reading on the DWP deaths:

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.co...p-stays-silent

nomadking

06-09-2019 16:57

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36009109)

Some interesting reading on the DWP deaths:

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.co...p-stays-silent

So still not "thousands upon thousands", which was your claim.
From your link.

Quote:

The funding for improving benefit applications processes is likely to refer to plans by work and pensions secretary Amber Rudd to introduce an “integrated” service for personal independence payment and work capability assessments from 2021, which will reduce the need to submit information multiple times for different benefit claims.

People constantly complain about one decision affecting another, and are now in favour of it?
If a PIP decision is made for 5 years and an ESA one for 2 years, what happens when the 2 years is up? If it's such an obvious change, when didn't Labour introduce it. The same situation would've occurred prior to 2010, yet nobody complains about that.

There are regular independent reviews as to whether the decision making is being done correctly and in the best way, and what changes might be made. Not sure one way or the other about more recent reviews and their suggestions, but the earlier advice was followed by the DWP where possible.

RichardCoulter

06-09-2019 17:35

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36009113)

So still not "thousands upon thousands", which was your claim.
From your link.
People constantly complain about one decision affecting another, and are now in favour of it?
If a PIP decision is made for 5 years and an ESA one for 2 years, what happens when the 2 years is up? If it's such an obvious change, when didn't Labour introduce it. The same situation would've occurred prior to 2010, yet nobody complains about that.

There are regular independent reviews as to whether the decision making is being done correctly and in the best way, and what changes might be made. Not sure one way or the other about more recent reviews and their suggestions, but the earlier advice was followed by the DWP where possible.

There have been thousands of deaths.

https://welfareweekly.com/dwp-forced...enefit-deaths/

If they have nothing to hide, why won't they collect and publish details of how these people died? Only one death due to the benefit reforms would be unacceptable.

nomadking

06-09-2019 18:37

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36009120)

Where are the figures for 2010 and before? They don't exist.

Quote:

The shocking statistics reveal that 111,450 ESA claims were closed following the death of claimants between March 2014 to February 2017.

Of course the claims were closed, they had died.:rolleyes: What is meant to be shocking about that?

The fact they they are on the DWP system as having died, PROVES they were receiving benefits at the time. They wouldn't have any record of it otherwise. Those 111,450 were receiving ESA at the time. Eg from your link, 82,680 were even in the support group. What is there to complain about?

You could just as easily argue those 111,450 died BECAUSE they received ESA.

You chose a ludicrous article. ALL of them were receiving benefits, and NONE of them had been denied benefits.
This is the question the DWP responded to.

Quote:

“Can you please supply me with up to date Mortality Statistics for Employment and
Support Allowance (ESA), Incapacity Benefit (IB) and Severe Disablement Allowance (SDA) claimants from 2015-
2016/7.”

Mythica

06-09-2019 20:20

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36008759)

Died from what though? People will have also died after actually receiving PIP, so meaningless figures as usual.From your Link.
So not turned down, Your claim was that is was a deliberate policy of refusal causing those deaths. As I said, FAKE NEWS,

And so likely to die anyway in the near future.

PIP is an ADDITIONAL benefit, not supposed to be money people rely on for food etc. Decisions on DLA or PIP have never been quick, apart from the 6 month terminal prognosis fast track. You are otherwise meant to have had the problems for at least 3 months before any claim starts. Although you can start the claim before, it won't apply until after the 3 months is up.

While I agree with what you are saying I think that's the wrong way to put the bolded sentence.

nomadking

06-09-2019 20:28

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36009160)

While I agree with what you are saying I think that's the wrong way to put the bolded sentence.

Yes it is, as the claim was that the benefits system was responsible for their deaths.

Mythica

06-09-2019 21:23

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36009163)

Yes it is, as the claim was that the benefits system was responsible for their deaths.

I'm talking about you saying about cancer patients are likely to die in the near future. That's a pretty horrible thing to say.

nomadking

06-09-2019 21:31

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36009180)

I'm talking about you saying about cancer patients are likely to die in the near future. That's a pretty horrible thing to say.

Utter garbage.
It was this claim I was responding to.

Quote:

More than 17,000 people have died while waiting to hear whether their claim for disability benefit had been successful, it has emerged

If 1 in 4 of those had cancer, then that 17,000 figure doesn't represent anything.

Mythica

06-09-2019 21:45

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36009181)

Utter garbage.
It was this claim I was responding to.
If 1 in 4 of those had cancer, then that 17,000 figure doesn't represent anything.

You said - "And so likely to die anyway in the near future." In reply to this - "One in four (4,330) of those who died were suffering from a form of cancer"

That's a horrible thing to say about people with cancer, especially when a lot often survive for years anyway.

jfman

06-09-2019 21:52

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Those terminally ill and expected to die within 6 months get processed under "special rules". The DWP have a ridiculously tight turnaround time on these - something like 2 weeks. It's unlikely those account for a significant proportion of those who pass away waiting for a decision.

RichardCoulter

08-09-2019 13:33

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.co...-stays-silent/

RichardCoulter

15-09-2019 19:20

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36009356)

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.co...-stays-silent/

Hopefully, this might be a start to preventung future deaths, but don't hold your breath.

https://thepoorsideof.life/

RichardCoulter

24-09-2019 19:00

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.

A man left a suicide note blaming the DWP for his suicide and it is still trying to evade responsibility:

https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2019/...esponsibility/

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