Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

It's not about justifying anything, it's about FACTS. Time and time again examples are given where even the article doesn't support the claims of the headline. Eg Case of somebody dying as a result of a brain tumour which hadn't been diagnosed by anybody. Did I say anything that was incorrect and not backed up by quotes from your previous linked article?

In this case, how is dying of pneumonia directly linked to a refusal of benefits more than a year earlier?
From your link
So that would be February 2018. Some time after the failed assessment in 2017. The Liverpool Echo article is from 3rd Feb 2019. Anyone suffering from pneumonia is going to look bad at a Tribunal.

Having a medical condition isn't cut and dried as to how it's affects somebody.NHS Link
Doctors cannot really claim a patient can only walk x metres, unless the medical condition is clear cut in that. Otherwise they are just having to take the patients word on things. All that they can do is say that having the medical condition supports the possibility of any patient claim. Anybody can claim to a GP that they can't mobilize 20m. The question then becomes, do they have a medical condition that supports that? Even an ability to walk 50m or more can make you eligible for ESA and/or PIP. There are other aspects to the question for the activity. Eg The time it takes, is an often unconsidered aspect. If it takes more than twice the time than the slowest an able-bodied person can do it, then you are meant to be considered to be unable to carry out that activity. Again there has to be a medical reason for the possibility of moving that slowly and not simply out of choice.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Do you have any compassion for those who are seriously ill and debilitated who require state assistance?

Would you like to see the welfare state discontinued?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Yes/No answer only...:dozey:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

1) I'm providing FACTS. Strange concept to many it would seem.
2) Their grounds for eligibility are not as clear cut as they make them out to be.
3) So often in these cases any deterioration or new problems occur AFTER any assessment.

If the eligibility for fast track PIP is 6 months or less, then a prognosis of 12 months doesn't yet apply.
Also other time-related criteria apply.
I've been dealing with my own IB/ESA/DLA/PIP related issues for some time. Even managing to get through a situation where DWP said no to ESA, Tribunal also said no. Reapplied for ESA, which has been made more difficult to do. In the meantime the Upper Tribunal eventually(after a year) agreed to a rehearing where the First Tier Tribunal said yes that time. Then the DWP said no to the 2nd ESA application, but the Tribunal said yes and even the DWP conceded at the hearing. There is a way of getting around the Tribunal refusal of ESA, having to claim JSA, but not having to look for jobs.

A few years ago, in addition to my prior medical conditions, I unknowingly suffered a pulmonary embolism(blood clot to the lung). That led to heart failure when I suffered another embolism to the other lung. Spent a few weeks in hospital, and then was virtually housebound for 3 months after that. Even that wouldn't have qualified me for ESA and PIP. Luckily I was already receiving ESA and DLA.

In your recent example the leg weakness would have been from lack of use. There are leg exercises that can be done even when recovering from open heart surgery. I know that, from the leaflet about the Pulmonary Endarterectomy operation I was told I might need to have at Papworth hospital.

All in all, been there, done that. I know something of the rules, how they're not correctly applied, and how they're meant to be applied. I've done my research.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

It's a perfectly valid question as everytime someone posts something on here about something terrible that's happened to someone, up to and including death, an attempt is made to justify it, whilst others are rightfully dismayed and shocked.

Whilst I wouldn't agree with it, some people do genuinely believe that the welfare state should be abolished and that people should be self reliant. From a personal point of view this would benefit me if it was used to cut taxes even further, but I believe that a civilised society should be judged upon how they treat their most vulnerable.

Much of social security law is left to decision makers to judge what is 'reasonable' or 'appropriate' in given circumstances as it was recognised that people have more complicated lives and circumstances. To help them do this, they use information from various sources, including case law and manuals on policy, procedure and guidance.

Since Cameron introduced his 'Stricter Benefits Regime", the ethos of the DWP being there to help and support those in difficulties and being flexible in their approach to reflect the wide variety of circumstances that people find themselves in has gone out of the window.

Targets to sanction claimants for the most spurious of reasons are now routinely deployed (often with staff under threat of disciplinary action if they don't) and are affecting decent people, many of whom honoured their side of the bargain by paying all taxes and National Insurance contributions when due.

The robotic approach by nomadking entirely reflects the new approach to decision making since 2010, which has resulted in cases like the army veteran being found dead due to malnutrition and the huge number of cases being successful after appealing as the Appeals Service tend to look at matters with compassion and reasonableness.

Sadly, because of the backlog of appeals, this is all too often too late as the people involved are already dead.

Thousands upon thousands of people have died due to this cruel administration; surely no right thinking person can agree with this.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

The point is that the stories are fake news. Somebody has to question and investigate the garbage coming from the media.

No point griping somebody doesn't have any money, when they do. At best, these are borderline cases as to whether they qualify. Most of the rules that don't apply to them have been in place in way or another for a very long time(before 2013).

Sanctions existed long before 2010. If somebody decides not to go to multiple appointments, then sanctions have always been there.

From your post #2331
Link
Housing benefit is paid on the basis of income, not receipt of benefits. He would still have been eligible for having zero income. Again been there, done that.

Are Maximus/DWP expected to be mind-readers? Who was keeping an eye on all the other potential bills etc to be paid?

Not quite true. On the one hand he could've reapplied for ESA for the new problems, on the other you can claim JSA and not have to look for work for up to 3 months using the Extended Period of Sickness rule as long as you can get the "fit" notes.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Are you claiming that things have not changed for the worse, particularly for sick and disabled people since Cameron introduced his Stricter Benefits regime?

Are you claiming that Atos are fit for purpose?

Are you claiming that thousands upon thousands of people haven't lost their lives as a result of these deliberate policies?

As we've been through before, sanctions did exist prior to this and they can be useful & appropriate to ensure compliance, but how things stand today is frankly absurd.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

The side of the bargain isn’t to pay tax and NI, it’s to spend 35 hours a week looking for work.

If you can’t spend 35 hours looking for work when do claimants intend to work if they don’t have the time?

Jobseekers Allowance wasn’t fit for purpose. Fire off three CVs a week and get your dole. No wonder a dose of reality was a shock to the system for layabouts.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

"thousands upon thousands"? Another example of fake news and nonsense.

Headline
Dad cries moment before suicide after Universal Credit wait left him with £4.61
But then actually read and comprehend the story.
That much debt in less than 5 weeks?
One way or another he would've had a month's worth of money to last those 5 weeks.
Eviction notice in the space of less than 5 weeks? Unless they're just talking about a notice to quit.

There have always been delays in starting benefits. It can't be an instant thing.


All in all, nothing whatsoever to do with Universal Credit and any benefits. Yet that is what is claimed in the headline. Have I said anything that isn't true?



All too often look behind the headlines and a very different picture emerges.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:20 ----------

The problem is that there isn't always enough than can be done to fill 35 hours/week. Once you've checked new vacancies for the day/week, there isn't much time needed to apply for any.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Training, volunteering, improving skills? There's plenty that can be done by the person genuinely seeking work.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

A quick search on the internet shows that over 17,000 people have died through PIP alone. The DWP have tried every trick in the book to prevent figures from being released.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8727296.html

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Died from what though? People will have also died after actually receiving PIP, so meaningless figures as usual.From your Link.
So not turned down, Your claim was that is was a deliberate policy of refusal causing those deaths. As I said, FAKE NEWS,

And so likely to die anyway in the near future.

PIP is an ADDITIONAL benefit, not supposed to be money people rely on for food etc. Decisions on DLA or PIP have never been quick, apart from the 6 month terminal prognosis fast track. You are otherwise meant to have had the problems for at least 3 months before any claim starts. Although you can start the claim before, it won't apply until after the 3 months is up.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Many people do genuinely believe that the situation is now so serious, that it is a deliberate form of genocide with regards to disabled people.

The DWP have done everything that they can to prevant access to data to support or deny this claim.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Now you are just being provocative. :dozey:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

No, it is a statement of fact. It's not like you not to frantically search the internet, take a look.