Cable Forum - U.S Election 2020

Here's a portion of the latest version of the articles of impeachment that will be formally introduced by House Judiciary Democrats on Monday, provided by a Democratic source. It includes one article: “incitement of insurrection.”

"President Trump’s conduct on January 6, 2021 was consistent with his prior efforts to subvert and obstruct the certification of the results of the 2020 presidential election. Those prior efforts include, but are not limited to, a phone call on January 2, 2021, in which President Trump urged Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to ‘‘find’’ enough votes to overturn the Georgia presidential election results and threatened Mr. Raffensperger if he failed to do so. In all of this, President Trump gravely endangered the security of the United States and its institutions of government. He threatened the integrity of the democratic system, interfered with the peaceful transition of power, and imperiled a coordinate branch of government. He thereby betrayed his trust as President, to the manifest injury of the people of the United States."

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/liv...day/index.html

---------- Post added at 20:59 ---------- Previous post was at 20:55 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36065880)

That’s why I didn’t say impeachment - I said disqualify him from public office.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4125422001

FWIW I’m not convinced it’s an effective use of time/effort for someone who won’t run in 2024.

Yup, the Trump brand is toxic so he won't be selected for 2024 and that goes for his family too.

But I think his opponents want to put a red mark in the history books against Trump which disqualifaction or impeachment would do.

Mick	08-01-2021 21:01

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36065880)

Disqualification still requires an impeachment conviction in the Senate, it is only after conviction in the Senate a further judgement of disqualification can be made via majority vote.

Quote:

The Constitution provides for removal from office on conviction and
also allows the further judgment of disqualification from holding further office. U.S. Const. art. I § 3 clause 7.

No vote is required on removal following conviction, since removal follows automatically from conviction under this constitutional provision. Deschler Ch 14 § 13.9.

But the further judgment of disqualification from holding future office requires a majority vote.

TheDaddy

08-01-2021 21:02

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36065878)

Really ours hasn't got one.

We haven't got a decent government either but then society gets the politicians it deserves

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36065880)

I think it'll just be playing into donny's hands, he'll simply keep on tweeting about how hard done by he is when there's a better than average chance he won't even stand next time round

Damien

08-01-2021 21:05

Re: U.S Election 2020

The disqualification is something that would incentivise some Republican senators though as it means he can't run in their primaries for next time, although anyone voting for it might also be screwing themselves.

I think it's better to just wait him out to be honest. He seems pretty chastened and has burnt through a lot of the remaining alliances he had. Keep the 25th in case he really goes off the rails but otherwise it's only a couple of weeks. He can't really do much if the team around him just slow-ball his orders and ignore any mad ones.

Mr K	08-01-2021 21:11

Re: U.S Election 2020

Regardless of the political pros and cons of impeaching the nutter, there's the practical matter of an unhinged psychopath having his finger on World security.

jfman

08-01-2021 21:16

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36065889)

They could nudge their friends ;)

Quote:

I think it's better to just wait him out to be honest. He seems pretty chastened and has burnt through a lot of the remaining alliances he had. Keep the 25th in case he really goes off the rails but otherwise it's only a couple of weeks. He can't really do much if the team around him just slow-ball his orders and ignore any mad ones.

Would any action now ‘expire’ when he leaves office or could the Senate pick up the mantle once they are the majority after Biden is in office?

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:16 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36065891)

Regardless of the political pros and cons of impeaching the nutter, there's the practical matter of an unhinged psychopath having his finger on World security.

He almost certainly doesn’t in practice.

Mick	08-01-2021 21:17

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36065891)

Regardless of the political pros and cons of impeaching the nutter, there's the practical matter of an unhinged psychopath having his finger on World security.

He doesn't just have unilateral power to fire off a Nuke like that - the person taking the order would need justification for doing so, so calm yourself dear.

papa smurf

08-01-2021 21:17

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36065891)

Regardless of the political pros and cons of impeaching the nutter, there's the practical matter of an unhinged psychopath having his finger on World security.

joe hasn't taken over yet so you can sleep easy for now.

Mick	08-01-2021 21:26

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36065894)

They could nudge their friends ;)

Would any action now ‘expire’ when he leaves office or could the Senate pick up the mantle once they are the majority after Biden is in office?[COLOR="Silver"]

.

The Constitution is explicit, it requires two thirds majority vote in the Senate to convict. Democrats are at 50 seats in the new Senate session as are GOP, granted the Dem's have VP's vote to break the tie but impeachment conviction requires a 67 vote. The numbers don't stack up.

jfman

08-01-2021 21:29

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36065902)

I was thinking can McConnell effectively run out the clock by not giving the motion time prior to swearing in of the two new Senators from Georgia.

Leaving the 67 issue to the side for now.

Paul	08-01-2021 21:30

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36065894)

He almost certainly doesn’t in practice.

He kinda does.

Quote:

The United States has a two-man rule in place at nuclear launch facilities, and while only the president can order the release of nuclear weapons, the order must be verified by the secretary of defense to be an authentic order given by the president ....... This verification process deals solely with verifying that the order came from the actual president. The secretary of defense has no veto power and must comply with the president's order.

So basically the Secretary would have to act illegally to stop an attack order.

Mr K	08-01-2021 21:32

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36065902)

You're assuming they all vote along party lines. There's many Republicans that have belatedly woken up to the damage Trump has done. Probably looking to their own political futures mind ;)

TheDaddy

08-01-2021 21:32

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36065902)

I think they'd get the votes, the republicans never wanted him until he won and I doubt they'd want him to have a chance of winning for them again, nor do they want him setting up another party and splitting their vote

jfman

08-01-2021 21:35

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36065904)

He kinda does.

So basically the Secretary would have to act illegally to stop an attack order.

This late in the day I’d guess that’s an automatic 25th Amendment. I agree that Sec Defense has no veto but can raise the alarm to VP/Cabinet.

He may well be acting illegally but I reckon he’d get a pardon.

Mick	08-01-2021 21:39

Re: U.S Election 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36065907)

Yes but they have their own necks to save, when it comes to midterms, they would need to keep Trump base intact and don't forget that is 75 Million Republican votes, the highest amount they have ever had for a sitting president.

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