Cable Forum - UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

The political declaration does come under a policy paper section of the governments website - https://www.gov.uk/government/public...al-declaration

On the page is also this;

Hence my confusion...

I guess we need to wait for the formal policy to be published as I said before.

What are you confused about? From your own quotes.

Quote:

The new Political Declaration sets out the framework... reflects the Government’s ambition...

Framework: a basic structure underlying a system, concept, or text.

Ambition: a strong desire to do or achieve something.

Sephiroth

04-02-2020 16:40

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

I thought that the key word in the declaration was ‘flexible’.

jonbxx

04-02-2020 17:02

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36024246)

What are you confused about? From your own quotes.

Framework: a basic structure underlying a system, concept, or text.

Ambition: a strong desire to do or achieve something.

I just wanted to know what changed between October and now where we went from an 'ambition to align' to 'no way, no how'.

It's surely either we had no intention on ever following through on the mutually agreed political declaration which doesn't bode well for future negotiations or circumstances have changed.

pip08456

04-02-2020 17:07

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36024252)

So I take it you have no idea about pre-negotiation posturing or would prefer that the UK agree with every detail of what the EU want to conclude a deal before any discussion is held?

Chris

04-02-2020 17:12

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36024253)

So I take it you have no idea about pre-negotiation posturing or would prefer that the UK agree with every detail of what the EU want to conclude a deal before any discussion is held?

Sadly the same Remainer tactics we have seen since 2016 are going to be in evidence throughout 2020. Everything the EU says will be taken as intrinsically reasonable, whereas any and all pronouncements by the UK Gov will be seen as flip flopping, disingenuous, ill prepared or (dare I say it) perfidious. :D

They finally lost the battle to overturn the referendum, the next best thing (for them) is to keep the UK as tightly aligned to the EU as possible.

pip08456

04-02-2020 17:31

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36024254)

All I can say is "Good luck" with that!

Sephiroth

04-02-2020 18:59

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36024252)

Maybe Barnier saying we must abide and the ECJ must have jurisdiction over any trade deal?

Maybe Macron demanding 25 years’ fishing rights as the price of getting a deal?

Maybe the perfidious Varadkar and his similar utterings?

jonbxx

04-02-2020 19:09

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36024253)

So I take it you have no idea about pre-negotiation posturing or would prefer that the UK agree with every detail of what the EU want to conclude a deal before any discussion is held?

I am just going by the joint political declaration published in October which seems to be in conflict with current noises coming out of the government now. I agree that there may be differences in degrees of alignment that need to be bashed out but we seem to have jumped from a significant degree of alignment to none in the space of 4 months.

Hugh	04-02-2020 19:10

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36024263)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post
I just wanted to know what changed between October and now where we went from an 'ambition to align' to 'no way, no how'.

It's surely either we had no intention on ever following through on the mutually agreed political declaration which doesn't bode well for future negotiations or circumstances have changed.

Maybe Barnier saying we must abide and the ECJ must have jurisdiction over any trade deal?

Maybe Macron demanding 25 years’ fishing rights as the price of getting a deal?

Maybe the perfidious Varadkar and his similar utterings?

That hasn’t changed since October - the EU have been saying it for years...

From May 2018

Quote:

The EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, today warned the U.K. that it must accept the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in order to achieve a successful withdrawal treaty and transition period when leaving the EU.

“We cannot accept that a jurisdiction other that the Court of Justice of the European Union determines the law and imposes its interpretation on the institutions of the Union,” Barnier said in prepared remarks at a meeting of EU law experts in Lisbon.

Or April 2017 - https://euobserver.com/brexit/137632

jonbxx

04-02-2020 19:14

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36024263)

I am looking at the annex published by the European Commission and these things don't seem to be mentioned. The only role of the CJEU seems to be their involvement on negating judicial cooperation if adequacy is not maintained. There's no dates set on fishing either.

Of course, this may be modified down the line once the Council work through it...

EDIT - seeing the comment up there about the CJEU, that seems to be for the transition period and the UK government agreed to that

pip08456

04-02-2020 20:00

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36024268)

That hasn’t changed since October - the EU have been saying it for years...

From May 2018

Or April 2017 - https://euobserver.com/brexit/137632

The EU's draft negotiation document can say what it likes it does not make it so.

Chris

04-02-2020 20:51

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36024267)

There has been a general election since October. The parliamentary arithmetic has fundamentally changed, and what was necessary for the government to agree to then, in order to attempt to get parliament’s backing, is not what’s necessary now.

Mr K	04-02-2020 21:00

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

I thought we 'got Brexit done' on 31st Jan, surely time to close the thread ? ;)

pip08456

04-02-2020 21:18

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36024285)

I thought we 'got Brexit done' on 31st Jan, surely time to close the thread ? ;)

It's obvious there are some members who wish we had remained wish to continue discussion. here is no rule that you have to view or contribute to the discussion.

Chris

04-02-2020 21:26

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36024285)

I thought we 'got Brexit done' on 31st Jan, surely time to close the thread ? ;)

Well, now you’ve got me thinking.

Apparently Boris has banned ministers from using the word “Brexit”. Perhaps it’s time to rename this thread.

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

... and done. Here’s to the future.

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