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Damien 02-02-2020 07:21
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
I think he meant about from the BBC (twice), ITV, LBC, the Daily Mail and the Independent. Aside from them. (and The Guardian) then barely a mention in the MSM.

1andrew1 02-02-2020 10:03
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
:D

Sephiroth 02-02-2020 11:17
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
I think that Boris has got this right.

The pompous EU will try to dictate the negotiation agenda and if it doesn’t suit as, we’ll not comply.

If we are to be an independent nation, we must not be a rule-taker. If they want to export to us, then they’ll have to obey our rules. We can certainly go for equivalence on a whole range of matters - we’ll be reasonable; will they?

Fishing is very important to them - so important that Macron has gobbled about 25 years. As pointed out by others, it’s a small fraction of our GDP but it’s totemic and indeed symbolic of what’s wrong with the EU. Sure give them a year, even r years in return for something concrete. But we are a sovereign nation and we must apply and preserve that sovereignty.

I remember the old days when all no -seasonal fruit came from outside Europe. We must develop that so we can import food from the rest of the world and not buy from the EU if they give us too much gyp.

Then there’s the level playing field. They seem to be terrified of our ability to compete; very much so. That’s not just a card for us to play; it’s a strength we should develop and beat them into the ground on world markets. Would they dare sacrifice their exports to us? They are sufficiently up themselves for that to be a possibility unless their industries put the politicians under pressure.

When someone as big as the UK leaves a club like the EU, something must be fundamentally wrong with the EU. They are so far up themselves as not to see it. Macron pretends to understand by saying that the EU needs to change (and by the way France will be tough on trade negotiations) - all in the same breath. Quite how it can change is not easy to define unless the whole move to federalism is unpicked and they go back to being the EEC.

The ever close union project is a sort of reverse salami slicing process; but by bit taking more and more powers to Brussels so that eventually the EU Parliament will be supreme over national parliaments. Leavers said “no” to that; Remainers, presumably, were OK with federalism. None of the Remainers in this thread have ever said they support federalism - but they would be hypocrites if they didn’t.

My position has always been that I’m happy to leave and happy to remain provided that in the latter case, we could keep sticking it to them. But the deed is done and we are sovereign and should go forward from this point.

Ramrod 02-02-2020 13:17
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
I've looked at all of those links and it's only the Daily mail that has a photo that comes close to demonstrating what kind of crowd there was at that event.
You would think that the BBC/ITV et al would have the wherewithal to take a decent pic of the crowd......unless perhaps they didn't want to?

Mr K 02-02-2020 13:20
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36024116)
I think that Boris has got this right.

The pompous EU will try to dictate the negotiation agenda and if it doesn’t suit as, we’ll not comply.

If we are to be an independent nation, we must not be a rule-taker. If they want to export to us, then they’ll have to obey our rules. We can certainly go for equivalence on a whole range of matters - we’ll be reasonable; will they?

Fishing is very important to them - so important that Macron has gobbled about 25 years. As pointed out by others, it’s a small fraction of our GDP but it’s totemic and indeed symbolic of what’s wrong with the EU. Sure give them a year, even r years in return for something concrete. But we are a sovereign nation and we must apply and preserve that sovereignty.

I remember the old days when all no -seasonal fruit came from outside Europe. We must develop that so we can import food from the rest of the world and not buy from the EU if they give us too much gyp.

Then there’s the level playing field. They seem to be terrified of our ability to compete; very much so. That’s not just a card for us to play; it’s a strength we should develop and beat them into the ground on world markets. Would they dare sacrifice their exports to us? They are sufficiently up themselves for that to be a possibility unless their industries put the politicians under pressure.

When someone as big as the UK leaves a club like the EU, something must be fundamentally wrong with the EU. They are so far up themselves as not to see it. Macron pretends to understand by saying that the EU needs to change (and by the way France will be tough on trade negotiations) - all in the same breath. Quite how it can change is not easy to define unless the whole move to federalism is unpicked and they go back to being the EEC.

The ever close union project is a sort of reverse salami slicing process; but by bit taking more and more powers to Brussels so that eventually the EU Parliament will be supreme over national parliaments. Leavers said “no” to that; Remainers, presumably, were OK with federalism. None of the Remainers in this thread have ever said they support federalism - but they would be hypocrites if they didn’t.

My position has always been that I’m happy to leave and happy to remain provided that in the latter case, we could keep sticking it to them. But the deed is done and we are sovereign and should go forward from this point.
Why are you obsessed with sticking/stiffing it to anybody? Or labelling individuals as 'perfidious'. These things are irrelevant, surely getting the best deal as we can for the UK is what we want? It won't be as good a deal as we had, but, hey ho, that argument has gone. Winding the other side up or posturing is unlikely to get a good deal which is mutually beneficial. We need the EU to thrive as most of our trade is with them. This isn't WW3 no matter how much some would love it to be (we'd lose btw, atm its Rest of the World Vs Little England)

Sephiroth 02-02-2020 14:59
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36024121)
Why are you obsessed with sticking/stiffing it to anybody? Or labelling individuals as 'perfidious'. These things are irrelevant, surely getting the best deal as we can for the UK is what we want? It won't be as good a deal as we had, but, hey ho, that argument has gone. Winding the other side up or posturing is unlikely to get a good deal which is mutually beneficial. We need the EU to thrive as most of our trade is with them. This isn't WW3 no matter how much some would love it to be (we'd lose btw, atm its Rest of the World Vs Little England)
I am not obsessed; rather I am accurately describing the people concerned. They are trying to stiff us so it is quite reasonable to wish the same pox on them.

Your other points are reasonable. But if they are telling us they want a level playing field (i.e. we do not develop our skills so that we compete with their labour practices etc) then we need to resist. For you and I to be on opposite sides of that argument is fair enough.

pip08456 02-02-2020 15:44
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 36024120)
I've looked at all of those links and it's only the Daily mail that has a photo that comes close to demonstrating what kind of crowd there was at that event.
You would think that the BBC/ITV et al would have the wherewithal to take a decent pic of the crowd......unless perhaps they didn't want to?
I knew someone would get it.

nomadking 02-02-2020 16:05
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
It was a night event, so only limited numbers of locals in London were ever going to attend.

papa smurf 02-02-2020 21:30
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Nissan drafts plan to double down on UK under hard Brexit





Under the scenario, the Sunderland plant in the UK would be maintained as part of an audacious attempt to steal market share from other carmakers.

If car makers that import to Britain such as Ford and Volkswagen face tariffs that make their cars more expensive, Nissan’s UK-made models would have a competitive edge, allowing the company to grow from 4 per cent of the market currently to as high as 20 per cent, according to the two people.





















https://www.ft.com/content/c4f0d1e2-...a-c4b328d9061c






Nissan has drawn up a plan to pull out of mainland Europe if Brexit leads to tariffs on car exports — but to double down on the UK, where the Japanese company believes it could sell one in five cars.

Chris 02-02-2020 21:51
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
I’d be very happy to consider buying a Nissan. The Leaf looks like a great car.

papa smurf 02-02-2020 22:03
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36024138)
I’d be very happy to consider buying a Nissan. The Leaf looks like a great car.
Do they have that lectric where you live;)

Hugh 02-02-2020 22:13
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36024136)
Nissan drafts plan to double down on UK under hard Brexit

Under the scenario, the Sunderland plant in the UK would be maintained as part of an audacious attempt to steal market share from other carmakers.

If car makers that import to Britain such as Ford and Volkswagen face tariffs that make their cars more expensive, Nissan’s UK-made models would have a competitive edge, allowing the company to grow from 4 per cent of the market currently to as high as 20 per cent, according to the two people.

https://www.ft.com/content/c4f0d1e2-...a-c4b328d9061c

Nissan has drawn up a plan to pull out of mainland Europe if Brexit leads to tariffs on car exports — but to double down on the UK, where the Japanese company believes it could sell one in five cars.
https://www.cityam.com/nissan-plans-...tingency-plan/
Quote:
Nissan was contacted for comment.

The carmaker denied such a contingency plan exists to the Financial Times.
If you open the FT article in an Incognito window, you can see the entire article, which also states

Quote:
The scenario is one of several that the carmaker developed to plan for post-Brexit tariffs. People familiar with the discussions cautioned that the contingency plan was drawn up before Makoto Uchida was installed as the new chief executive in December.
And
Quote:
Nissan’s public position is that the UK plant would be threatened along with its European business if the UK fails to maintain tariff-free access to the EU.

“We deny such a contingency plan exists,” said a spokesman for Nissan Europe. “We’ve modelled every possible ramification of Brexit and the fact remains that our entire business both in the UK and in Europe is not sustainable in the event of WTO tariffs …We continue to urge UK and EU negotiators to work collaboratively towards an orderly balanced Brexit that will continue to encourage mutually beneficial trade.”

TheDaddy 03-02-2020 07:51
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36024071)
Leave voters didn't want to gloat,but if you want us to i'm sure we can accommodate.
Really, singing we are the champions badly isn't gloating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 36024109)
I was there, among many thousands of others :)
You should have said I'd have given you a lift, I didn't go into the square but was lurking about on the other side of the river, didn't look like many thousands to me leaving, looked like about the attendance of one of the low quality league clubs on match day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36024092)
The UK's fishing and fish processing industries employ 24,000 people and contribute 1.4 billion pounds to the UK economy, that is 0.12% of GDP involving under 0.1% of the UK's 33 million workforce.

There were 1,100,000 financial services jobs in the UK, 3.1% of all job (46 times as many jobs as fishing), and the financial services sector contributed £132 billion to the UK economy (94 times the contribution of fishing), and was 6.9% of total economic output.

Pretty sure Financial Services will take priority over Fishing...
To put that even more into perspective Harrods turns over more cash and employs more people than the entire fishing industry put together, not bad for a corner shop

---------- Post added at 07:48 ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36024127)
It was a night event, so only limited numbers of locals in London were ever going to attend.
Absolutely, new years eve is nothing to go by, at all...

---------- Post added at 07:51 ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36024121)
Why are you obsessed with sticking/stiffing it to anybody? Or labelling individuals as 'perfidious'. These things are irrelevant, surely getting the best deal as we can for the UK is what we want? It won't be as good a deal as we had, but, hey ho, that argument has gone. Winding the other side up or posturing is unlikely to get a good deal which is mutually beneficial. We need the EU to thrive as most of our trade is with them. This isn't WW3 no matter how much some would love it to be (we'd lose btw, atm its Rest of the World Vs Little England)
That's always seemed the daftest thing about all this to me, we're now negotiating to get a deal as close to the one we had a few days ago, the ramifications could be felt in Scunthorpe sadly with the deal to save British steel now in jeopardy, apparently.... :(

papa smurf 03-02-2020 09:57
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36024140)
https://www.cityam.com/nissan-plans-...tingency-plan/

If you open the FT article in an Incognito window, you can see the entire article, which also states



And

Do i also have to play ode to joy to get the full experience.

tweetiepooh 03-02-2020 10:14
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
I think that the EEC may have been a good thing but the EU less so.

What I hope happens is that we negotiate with the EU for free trade that works both ways. We can export to EU things they want that comply with their rules and we import the same but our rules. We do buy stuff from the EU and they do buy stuff from us.

We should maintain or exceed safety rules the EU has, if companies import we don't have to buy, they would learn that we aren't daft.

---
Separate note - Turkey. If they do get any traction for membership I can see Cyprus wanting to leave. Talking with Cypriots, one reason for joining the EU is protection from Turkey, if the Turks get free movement they would likely just move in.


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