Originally Posted by Jerrek

The ultimate negative reinforcement is very effective. That person never commits another crime again.

Originally Posted by Flubflow

I said crime rate (i.e. %) not total number of crimes.
Another thing that helps is that fact that prisons are not as bad as they used to be so that there is a more of a chance that offenders can improve themselves and lessen the chance of them re-offending (the positive way).

Originally Posted by stuartbe

Hey - come on guys... This is suposed to be about the way we bring children up in this country and how to mould them into good people.......

Not being rude to our m8's over the water but I dont live in Canada or the USA so there prison system and crime rates dont bother me........

This is going :notopic: fast....

Originally Posted by stuartbe

Hey - come on guys... This is suposed to be about the way we bring children up in this country and how to mould them into good people.......

Not being rude to our m8's over the water but I dont live in Canada or the USA so there prison system and crime rates dont bother me........

This is going :notopic: fast....

Originally Posted by ianathuth

I don't think that this is going off topic at all Stuart. If we are looking at an issue such as this we have to look at what is going on in countries around the world, how other countries deal with discipline and crime and how effective their way is. We are not an island that behaves in such a unique way that means other countries experiences are not valid here.

Originally Posted by ianathuth

I don't think that this is going off topic at all Stuart. If we are looking at an issue such as this we have to look at what is going on in countries around the world, how other countries deal with discipline and crime and how effective their way is. We are not an island that behaves in such a unique way that means other countries experiences are not valid here.

Originally Posted by ianathuth

Go on then, give us the crime rate percentages for both the UK and USA and how these have altered in the past 10 to 15 years.

Do you honestly think that because prisons are not as bad as they used to be makes prisoners less likely to re-offend? I would have thought that common sense dictates the opposite is true.

Originally Posted by stuartbe

IMO - Criminals are only criminals if they have not been raised correctly. I think that the time to mould and make a someone a good memeber of society is when they are growing up.... Yes we need prisons and punishment's for adults. but I am talking about how we raise our children and if a stricter school system and home life would improve the way that children behave....

Whats that got to do with US crime rates and prisons ? :confused:

Originally Posted by downquark1

Yes it is very effective in that reguard. But you loose a functioning member of society.

Originally Posted by Flubflow

My original post was a very a small one so there was no need for you to snip portions out in the quote. If you think your argument is that strong then there should be no need for you to falsely lessen the impact of mine in this way.

Yes children do learn that a slap means that they have done something wrong. Wouldn't you rather not have to slap them at all and get an even better result (especially the child not crying his/her eyes out and hating you even just for a short time)? Also, with positive discipline there is a certain amount of self-learning and general improvement in attitude so that you lessen the chance of other offences occuring for which you would still have to smack for. Specific reactionary physical punishment is just a series of smacks for specific brands of naughtiness throughout each stage of development until eventually they are too old to be smacked.

Doing things more positively does not mean talking to the child in the fashion of an old hippy cliche after the event. It involves getting more involved with them using all of the time you can spare. If you really wanted to you could read about it, learn and try it out.

Anyway, I am one of the old f*ckers around here. Traditionally I am supposed to be the type that says, "bring back the birch" and all that stuff. If even I can realise that there is a more rewarding way then maybe you should give it some genuine thought.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

You do not see the military handing out candy when the soldiers are obedient. No. They get punished. Hard. Thats why it works in the military.

Originally Posted by ianathuth

One of the biggest causes of lack of discipline in children is the parents having differing views on the subject. I have seen many cases of a child being punished either verbally or physically by one parent and the other parent consoling the child and giving them a cuddle. This leads to confusion in the child about what is right and what is wrong and the child playing off one parent against the other which can eventually lead to marital problems. A child will respond and learn more from parents who have talked over the subject of discipline and formulated rules on the subject.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

So they get punished when they are obedient and punished when they are not.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

How do you figure?


EDIT: OK sorry. Bad translation on my part. I meant to say that they do not get rewarded for good behavior, instead, they get punished for bad behavior.