Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

More bad luck as leaflets were dropped ordering 1.1 million Palestinians to leave their homes for their safety only for the convoys to be attacked and over 70 people killed, apparently 13 hostages have also been killed by the indiscriminate bombings

---------- Post added at 03:10 ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 ----------

That used to be Fatahs ideology too

Might help if we went after the Hamas leadership, they're not slumming it in the ghetto, they're living like kings in Doha, go after them and their money, start empowering Fatah to oppose them and get a proper succession plan in place for when Abbas passes on, the problem is we don't have the will to try, we've bought into the rhetoric hook line and sinker with this nonsense about things being to intransigent, it's almost like neither side want it to succeed and have suckered the world into believing it's true

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Few hundred Hamas yet over 500 children killed is a proportionate response?

You are being duped into blaming the victims by association here.

There’s no peaceful future for Israel when it indiscriminately kills women and children in bombing raids. Go onto the Israeli air force Twitter feed and look through the photos of residential areas decimated and tell me they look like proportionate actions.

After all there are “but a few hundred” Hamas. With thousands upon thousands of bombs dropped surely they’ve got them all by now.

Or, and hear me out in this one, are Israel not just targeting Hamas?

The latest numbers in the Guardian update.

I ask once again when do you say enough? What’s the tipping point where it can no longer be blamed on Hamas? 10,000? 100,000? A million?

If the answer is never enough then there’s no point going round and round in the coming days as Israel escalate the conflict further. Our positions are clear enough from the many posts thus far.

There’s a pretty horrific video on Twitter, and also one before showing mainly women and children sitting on a long trailer taken minutes before. Would be interesting for the Israel apologists to have a look and tell us how in their view it was a legitimate target and what (if any) steps they believe Israel took to minimise civilian casualties.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

I’m not blaming the victims, I’m blaming Hamas.

And so should the Palestinians.

I’ll tell you once again, not one Palestinian would be dead this week by the IDF if not for the actions of Hamas

I wouldn’t support an organisation that provoked a conflict they knew they couldn’t win, they knew that their actions would result in more of their own innocent population being killed than they could kill Israelis.

Probably correct.

I’ve already said on here, that I believe that Israel should stop their counter offensive.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Not strictly true. Palestinians and Israelis are killed & injured on an ongoing basis:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2023/10/2.jpg

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

l thought this was a good listen last night by Patrick Kielty whose Dad John was shot dead by the UFF during The Troubles in N Ireland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpYr...heLateLateShow

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

OK Mr P. Dantic. It was making a point about current events, but if you want me to be pedantic. I said “this week”.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Pro Palestine != Pro Hamas

Taking a horrific situation and trying to use it to promote your own agenda. That’s a new low..

What happened to you ???

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

I actually find it comforting that so many of my fellow citizens are out despite the threats of our own authoritarian Government around the flying of the Palestinian flag.

While our politicians and political class are happy to dine at the table of American imperialism it's reassuring that people are looking with their own eyes and making assessments themselves.

If you stood up and condemned Russian activity in Ukraine but are silent over atrocities by the Apartheid state in Gaza then you are nothing but a shill. That applies to UK politicians and EU ones like Ursula von der Leyen. The pretence of an 'international rules based order' is dead. I always expected it to go but I didn't think it'd have been an attack on Israel that would finish it off.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

If you had unequivocally condemned Hamas’ barbarism when it occurred last week instead of indulging in Corbynisms, you might have a shred of the moral authority necessary to say any of the above and to sound convincing. But you didn’t, and you don’t. For you to stand up now and accuse anyone of shilling for anything is comedy of the highest order.

Personally I had no reservations about condemning Hamas’ terrorist outrages in southern Israel last week on their own terms; they were barbaric, and I’d say sub-human but for the fact that it is evident their behaviour is entirely human. It is what humans do when they are inculcated with an ideology that dehumanises those who are ‘other’, which is exactly what Hamas’ extremist ideology does.

And I have no reservations about condemning the cutting off food and fuel to an entire population (given the nature of the Hamas threat there is no military utility in doing so - it is collective punishment and illegal under international law) and the bombing of convoys of fleeing civilians even if Hamas terrorists are hiding in those convoys.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

If you stood up and condemned Israeli activity in Palestine but are silent over atrocities by the Russian state in Ukraine then you are nothing but a shill, with over six hundred children killed, thousands of children kidnapped, and tens of thousands of targeted civilian casualties and deaths in the last eighteen months.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

To add some balance this is just one way that Israel has acted illegally under international law. But this and other acts are tolerated by the international community because <insert reason here>

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

I think you'll find I did condemn it Chris - merely not using the spineless rhetoric that we are required to accompany it 'Israel has a right to defend herself' that is universally used to censor any debate that attributes the cause of the ongoing conflict to the actions of both sides now, both sides in the past and ultimately both sides in the future.

The requirement frames the debate immediately, and there was enough of that going on from the very first post.

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:46 ----------

Hang on have the Israelis killed more children in seven days than Russia have in eighteen months? Dear god. By their own admission they've only just gotten started.

I've definitely condemned Russian activity and underlined the need for a peaceful solution so no particular concern on this front. I'm equally not a politician acting as some kind of moral arbiter of which military causes are just and which are not.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

I don't agree with all of your points Seph but on this one I will.

There will certainly be more people motivated and willing to carry out terror attacks in Europe and the UK on boats in the near future so long as the UK, the EU and the United States are complicit in Israeli war crimes.

It doesn't really matter from their perspective where you are on the scale between providing political cover or direct military assistance.

No I don't agree that what you are watching on television is pro-Hamas, unless you are watching channels significantly different from those on mine.