Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Linky

No wonder there's a cash crisis. :rolleyes:

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ts-to-collapse

Particularly alarming as the number of non-British EU nationals working in social care system has shot up by more than 40% in three years. if they decide they're not welcome we're stuffed.

Why are they leaving ? Did ask some body who recently left and they said crap pay, crap hours, too may visits in too short time and soul destroying if you care about the patients ,as there isn't enough time to spend with each patient to do the job properly. I won't be applying anytime soon...

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Good I hope nobody does, then they'll be forced to put wages up......unless they bus in a load of Eastern European migrants that will do the job for minimum wages or less...............

No there's a thought........you don't think free movement of cheap labour multiplied by unscrupulous care firms has some how contributed to all of this do you?

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

It seems that to get better people you need to employ more people and pay them more. However, councils just don't have the money. So what to do? Raise taxes? Borrow money? You can tinker round the edges and save £1m by not buying Dyson hand driers but when you're talking £billions that doesn't go very far.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

we've just spent £3000 on 12 of them but they have come from the Ward fund of donations so has a lot of the other wards.

They can't use fans with blades do to infection control

---------- Post added at 00:28 ---------- Previous post was at 00:25 ----------

Language barrier is a huge issue, I often have to repeat what the foreign nurses have said to the patient because they don't undertand what they said.

Plus I find a lot of them wont listen my 11 years in Renal seems to count for nothing because the managers excuse is it's their culture

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

They're frightened to offend anyone and that'd include a lot of patients I'm sure, my elderly mum being one. It's the sort of 'logic' which led to all those child abuse cases - fear of upsetting someone = do nothing. As far as I'm concerned being able to properly understand medical professionals is essential and that shouldn't offend anyone, let alone a professional person.

Interesting thing about fans and infection control. I don't recall traditional fans being cited as a common source of infection in the past in the years when MRSA etc. weren't almost endemic in many of our hospitals so has something changed or is the move to bladeless fans just another policy resulting from a desire to be seen to be doing something, anything?... :shrug:

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The reason adult social care is not in crisis because of immigrant workers. The social care workers get paid little and funding has been cut. The idea they get paid little because there are Eastern Europeans willing to do for minimum wage as if there would be plenty of money otherwise is nonsense.

There is not a lot of money in providing social care for vulnerable adults, few can afford private care and this isn't a area of government spending that was ring fenced in 2010. There is a limited amount of money and if you got rid of immigrants and paid UK workers more you would have fewer social care workers until such time as the government puts even more money in or we otherwise find a way to solve this problem.

But people resent tax rises, they resent the idea their home should go to cost of providing their social care and they resent immigrants who come and take the low paid social care jobs so god knows what the answer is going to be.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The answer is going to be that people have to pay more by hook or by crook AKA tax. As the bank of mum and dad is forced to step in more to help their kids get on the housing ladder, reduce student debts etc, including downsizing themselves, there's going to be even fewer people with assets left after so doing which are sufficient to pay for all their social care when it's needed.

There's not much of an incentive to save and accrue assets if you believe that when the time comes you may have nothing to pass on to your children because you'll have to pay for all your care and sell your house to do so. Far more sensible to help them out early on (housing prices are going up much faster then investment returns) and thereby reduce your assets because self-funders are all too often being charged far more for the same standard of care as those being funded by the LAs. They're effectively subsidising the system.

I think the only long term answer is some form of social care insurance people are required to pay into throughout their lives but that idea will go down like a lead balloon until the system we have grinds to a halt.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Yes I think tax too although I think this also highlights how unfit for purpose our current housing market is as well.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The housing market bubble will burst again just like it always does but people are being given mixed messages. On the one hand they're being encouraged to save (eg ISAs & pensions) but on the other and the returns they get for so doing are miniscule unless they invest in bricks and mortar or stock market related products which are also risky. Personal debt is also being allowed to mushroom to keep the economy growing - IIRC more new cars were registered in the UK than ever before and the highest ever proportion being financed.

As a decent parent, the main thing you save for is your children's future and when that is discouraged the big losers will be the children who not only have to pay more for everything along the way but will get less back and probably won't inherit a bean either. The good news for an increasing number of them will be. however, that they'll have far less assets for HMG to take off them as they get old and prepare to meet their maker... :erm: ;)

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I have to disagree there. Basic market economics says otherwise.

It's not the only reason, but if there is no driver i.e. Lack of labour resource, to increase wages then they won't increase simple as that.

There's not a lot of money in it because they're getting away with not putting any money in it because they're paying depressed wages.

If they were forced to put more money into then at least we'd be forced into having a proper debate on how we fund social care for the ever increasing age of the population.

Perhaps a care tax or as well as having a private pension plan you have to get a private care plan?

But whilst they can get away with running the system on cheap labour they are not forced to have that uncomfortable debate.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The system isn't working now and they're not putting much money in.

Social care was ripe for cuts in 2010 because it gets far less attention than the bigger items such as the NHS so whilst the latter was 'ringfenced' social care was cut. It's not just elderly people, the part of social care people do at least pay some attention too, it's also for adults who have various disabilities that require a lot of care.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Not really market economics. Wages have risen in social care due to the minimum wage and its subsequent increases, they've not been pushed down due to any apparent over-supply of labour.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Are those increases even worth talking about, we are talking about the barest minimum in pay rise.

I remember when I was young my grandad came to live with us when things got to much for him, that kind of thing doesn't seem to happen much anymore and all it cost us was a dining room.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...y_to_clipboard

Wonder why we can't attract enough people into nursing, and we are reliant on EU nationals ?