Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

The original feelings and arguments was that this had to be a race crime because all the victims were white. I'm simply pointing out that it has now been proven that not all the victims were white. My argument all along has been that these *******s preyed on vunerable girls.

Yes all the gang members were asian (from similar if not the same community background) but I do not think they were racially motivated in their choice of targets. I would say that they probably white girls (or non asian girls) were seen as an easier target because they could be exploited with drink, drugs, or because they came from worse backgrounds. Rochdale has a big asian population that is mainly muslim so maybe they were less vunerable to be exploited by alcohol and drugs. This is slightly different from picking girls simply because they were white.

I also do not think that this asian victim is the only asian girl they raped. I think others will not come out due to the cultural pressures that they might feel they will be under.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

The reason it was a separate trial was that the victim was not connected to the grooming gang activity, it was all down to him alone. Your argument is therefore, of course, false. The grooming victims still don't appear to include any Asians. The Asian victim wasn't raped by the others, but by just this one person.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

I come from the angle of it was clearly a race-related crime as all the men were Asian. Actually I could be wrong, I think perhaps one or two were Iraqi/Saudi or something? Either way none of the men were white.

Now obviously I'm not stupid enough to suggest that white-British men do not commit these types of crimes.

But in this case, it cannot be denied that the police have not charged any white-British men with anything. There must be a reason why they kept it within their own races. On this basis I say race played a massive part in the case.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

I'd argue that the reason it was a separate trial is because as far as I am aware, the victim came forward after the grooming trial. Similarly if a girl came forward now in relation to the grooming case it would be a spearate trial.

Are you saying that no more victims of the original grooming trial exist? And if they come forward they wont be treated as new trials?

Raaping someone for almost 15 years has quite a strong indication of grooming does it not? He also let other people have sex with her/forced her to have sex with other people.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

That's what I was going to point out nomad :tu:

and why weren't there any white men in their gang?

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

If all of the victims were white, then you could have an argument. The facts are we don't know if all of the victims were white as there could be a lot that haven't come forward. My understanding of a racially motivate crime is that the victim is off a different race. In this case we know that the ring lleader has raped/groomed girls both white and asian - so I can't see him purely motivated by race.

I think there will be asian girls who have been raped by these guys, as there will be many other white girls who have still not come forward. What I think needs to be done is the stigma associated with rape needs to be addressed in asian communities. It happens - rape is not only carried out on english white girls, and the sooner and their respective communities accept this then we will be seeing more asians behind bars for rape.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

You're missing my point. I'm not calling this a 'racially motivated crime'. I'm suggesting there must be a racial element involved if all the members are Asian. There surely must be a reason why no white men were part of that gang. I say it's based on race - mainly because nobody else seems able to offer an alternative.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

Where does it say that? He was the only one charged with raping her. She told the police after the grooming investigation started, not after the trial started.
How would things like alcohol feature in a girl that young.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

I wonder what the wider Asian community would've concluded had an entirely white gang been convicted of grooming and raping an exclusively Asian group of young girls.

I don't think this was an entirely racially motivated crime any more than I think all Pakistani men (or men of any other nationality for that matter) are abusers and/or paedophiles but for me there's no doubt that rthe acial element in this crime was overhwleming. That of course doesn't exclude the possibility that some of these men were also involved in other cases of abuse for other reasons and involving their own communities.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

Interestingly enough a lot of the girls that were raped were 'supplied' by one of the victims who was now getting paid a finders fee for each girl she bought back to the gang.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-unfolded.html

Meanwhile Honey Monster was busily at work finding a steady supply of other girls for the gang to rape, in return for a finder's fee of up to £200 per girl.
One of the abusers, Abdul Rauf, 43, once told her not to take a "little" girl because she was too young, but Honey Monster ignored him, saying another girl had moved away and "the men wanted new girls".
She would later escape prosecution because she, too, had been abused and was seen as a victim who had lost all sense of right and wrong.

This could also be seen as a reason to why the victims were white - she would have probably been going to her own commuinty first and foremost, talking to girls she new and assocaited wth.

My argument is that everything should be taken into account before saying that this case is all about race. It's not - it's about the exploitation of vunerable girls/women. The fact that all the ones that have come forward are white does not mean that these guys did not rape asian girls either. It's more than likely that they have got away with that because of the stigmas and cultural pressures I spoke of earlier.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

Does that include the fact that all the men were Asian?

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

But sometimes all the people in a case are white, doesn't mean there is a racial element. It's just that these people clearly kept within their circle and there circle came from the same community.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

ERM no ,the reason it is widely reported as a race crime is because the defendants said it was motivated by race both to the police upon arrest and the judge during the trial.The judge may think different but i tend to believe the defendants when they say it was racially motivated .

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

However in this case all the men were Asian. If they chose to keep it within their own community then a) they created the racial element by doing so and b) questions need to be asked as to why others in that community did not take action sooner.

Re: Child grooming gang found guilty
 

It was reported as a racial crime because it seemed to be an entirely Asian gang focusing on white girls. There is now evidence that partly explains that, one of the victims was finding other girls, and a victim came forward that was Asian.

I am not saying there were no issues within the respective communities but that's different to race.