Re: The energy crisis
 

Not sure what you're trying to achieve by dropping the DD amount. They will still apply the rebate as well. From an accounting point of view, I should imagine it has to occur separately.

If you're trying to reduce the initial DD amount taken, you could try changing the date to the 1st of the month(next would be 1st Nov rather than 25th Oct), then the payment DD and rebate DD will happen together.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The Labour idea of setting up a publically owned energy company seems to be going down well. Good for the environment too.

It's a good idea in that they won't need to buy out the privatised companies and nationalise them. They can carry on as normal, but people will be free to use the public energy company.

If they don't reduce their prices, I can see them all going bust as people will obviously go to a cheaper supplier.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/lat...ls-29-09-2022/

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think it's smarter to set up a new company that competes and drives the type of investment you want to see happen rather than simply spending billions nationalising existing infrastructure.

Re: The energy crisis
 

We have no way of knowing if that is what they are doing. From how it reads to me it is an either or not a both. Just for reference it is my daughters account it they do give her it back then it can simply be adjusted back up and a top up payment made if needed

Octopus has reduced my future DD £67 so no confusion there they are just leaving it in my bank

Re: The energy crisis
 

Only 2 of the 6 months of rebate will be for £67, so it's not an actual change. Either way, Octopus know of the rebate in their accounts. If you unilaterally reduce your DD amount, then the supplier won't know that it includes the rebate, and will still have to apply it on top of the DD reduction.
If you're trying to avoid the situation where the higher non-rebated amount is taken before the rebate is given back, then either synchronize the 2 events to the first of the month, or consider it a one-off situation when the rebate has been given in advance for the Oct 25th DD payment. I don't know if a later in the month DD payment, is considered to be late for that month or early for the next. IE was the 25th Sept DD payment considered to be for Sept or Oct?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Is the money being paid to your supplier, I hope it is because a lot of people will not pay it into their accounts and will still be in dept,

Re: The energy crisis
 

Mate I am all over it you do not need to tell me anything.

The Bulb confusion remains as the DD was showing as next payment at the full price no reduction. So if the reduce the DD from what I set it to for my daughter then at least we will know for the next 5 months and as I said I can easily set the DD back up and make any top up payment as needed. Like I said

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yes, it is…

Re: The energy crisis
 

Same here, but energy increases are not peculiar to the UK, mortgage rates have been rock bottom for over a decade, its savers turn, the independent BoE is rightly being creative in testing times, borrowing is to stimulate the city but yes, the debt is concerning, and the notoriously nervous markets caused the 'crash'; the pound is rebounding.

As for the future, I don't have crystal balls :D.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Bulb recommended I drop my DD from £130 to £99 last week and now they recommend I drop again to £93, so in my case my bills are only a little more than what I would have considered normal 2 years ago.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Thanks to Government subsidy....and you’ve (perhaps) got your winter fuel payment to come. Things are not as bleak as some might have us believe.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I will be honest with you with the £400 fuel payment, the CoL payment of £324 and likely the Warm home discount I am better off for 6 months than I have been in 2 years. Although a lot of it is getting grabbed by higher grocery shopping

Re: The energy crisis
 

For me I put in 2k into my pension pot and it went down 2k so lost 4k in total, petrol costs alot more and so does food, luckily I have 2 weeks until my last very small mortgage payment so that likely offsets the food, petrol and elec/gas extra charges.

Re: The energy crisis
 

We’re not going to avoid all of the pain all of the time, but in a financial pandemic Kwasinomics may be the shot in the arm that stops a viral decline :). The pound has stabilised for starters.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The pound has stabilised due to the BoEs intervention, nothing else

Re: The energy crisis
 

She’ll Energy credited £66 to my account today (but they still want me to increase my Direct Debit to £307 per month…).

Re: The energy crisis
 

Stabilised 20% lower than it was a year ago…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1664717624

Re: The energy crisis
 

So they are doing it like Bulb then. Both it appears are going against what it is meant to do. I assume a man of your calibre has done the maths and pretty much knows how much you need to pay anyway? Octopus at least leaves it in the customers hands as long as they do it right

Re: The energy crisis
 

Are Bulb not doing it correctly, it's going into my Bulb account as expected and my DD is going down rather than up?

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...ng-support-pa/

Re: The energy crisis
 

We are (with the £66) around £316 in credit, with another £235 being DD’ed two days before the Bill Date - ShellEnergy estimate we will be using £343 (on average), so we shouldn’t need to top up our account for a couple of months, and hopefully reduced energy usage may stretch that further.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The BoE is independent and the Chancellor can't tell them what to do; he might have influenced them though. Besides, supporting sterling is what they do.

The Government subsidy has saved you from an even higher DD then :). Is their assessment of your usage realistic? You must have a spreadsheet calculating your per kWh and standing charges every month.

Would we be worse off if we had the euro; or their inflation?

Re: The energy crisis
 

The Chancellor’s actions definitely did influence what they did… ;)

ShellEnergy provide monthly and year on year usage stats/charts (bar and point charts).

Re: The energy crisis
 

So, we're agreed the Chancellor knew the possible consequences of his announcement and knew he could rely on the BoE to do their job :p:

You have no means to cross-check Shell's data and therefore challenge their dips into your bank account and you're unimpressed with the Chancellor's fiscal ability? People in glass houses :D

Re: The energy crisis
 

Difference being I don’t have the ability/stupidity to make the Nation’s Pension Schemes illiquid, requiring the BoE to intervene at a cost of £5 billion per day ;)

So, we’re agreed that the Chancellor knew he could cause the Pension Schemes to go illiquid, and raise the cost of borrowing for the money to pay for the extra he was giving bankers and those earning over £155k?

Doesn’t sound very clever…

Addendum: I don’t trust Energy/Telecoms companies billing systems, having spent a reasonable proportion of my working life implementing/fixing them - in fact, my one of my last jobs before retiring was as the Head of Programmes on Billing Remediation in one of the Big Six Energy companies (my teams had to fix whatever cock-ups the new releases caused, and there were new releases monthly).

So, to set your mind at rest, I take readings from our Smart Meters on the 25th of each month (billing day), the next day I download the PDF bills and store those, and every quarter I review what I have stored against what the Utility Companies say (because, from previous experience, I have seen historical bills amended on systems), and if there are issues, I will highlight those with the Supplier (I haven’t found any with ShellEnergy).

Re: The energy crisis
 

Seems I will be getting paid to use energy! Now the house is free of girls , my DD has been reassessed , down to £40 a month !

Re: The energy crisis
 

I've finally been able to give Scottish Power my meter readings after starting Friday evening.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well, according to the paper, the BoE (and the Pensions Regulator) have allowed the UK’s largest company pension schemes to engage in dangerous investment strategies for some time and it was this that was really responsible for the near collapse.

I share your mistrust of energy companies. You do seem to be a high consumer though.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Same here, took a couple of days to log in. Last week they suggested we raise the DD to £272 from £262 (which I did) and today they're suggesting it should be £271 (which I didn't do).

My understanding is Scottish Power will be paying the £400 by monthly refunds to our bank, so by this time next year we'll be paying the wrong side of £300 per month as we're the best part of £450 in credit.

Re: The energy crisis
 

@ Hugh.

I thought of you yesterday whilst researching ways to cut down on energy use. It said that turning off the radiators in unused bedrooms and keeping the door closed will help to cut costs.

It also said to lower the radiators in other rooms and only keep the main room (usually the living room) at a decent temperature and keeping the door closed.

The thing is, isn't the whole point of central heating to be able to have the house warm and being able to not bother about closing the inner doors?

As do that, we might as well turn off the central heating completely and go back to the days of gathering round the gas fire!!

I do think it's worth closing your unused bedroom doors though.

Re: The energy crisis
 

In our household, once the heating is activated, if you go through a door, you shut it behind you. Turning off radiators is not the best idea. If you have TRVs (thermostatic radiator valves) turn them down low, even to the frost protection level, to stop them freezing.

Warm, humid air entering a cold room will soon cause damp and mould.

Our heating during the coldest periods of the year, comes on for 2 hours before we get up, then runs until midday when it goes off for an hour whilst we are cooking with a window open to let the damp air out. It then runs again until it's time to cook the evening meal. And no heating after 9pm, so the choice is to put on a jumper or get under your quilt.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

In a positive note, it could reduce our domestic Gas bills…

(apologies if I pre-empted OB’s post)

Re: The energy crisis
 

still get screwed by the standing charges. What's the chances we get a refund when they can not supply us

Re: The energy crisis
 

Our house, an ex-1930s council house had terrible condensation issues in the winter so we did similar, opening the windows. Last year, we got a dehumidifier and it has transformed things. We don’t need to have the windows open and the house is quicker to heat. We also noticed that we didn’t need the heating in during the day last winter.

I think it’s a combination of dry air ‘feeling’ warmer, dry air being quicker to heat and not wasting heating power evaporating water.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The "waste" of a dehumidifier is not just a bowl of water, but actual HEAT! In a previous home, the only time the corridor got warm during the winter was when the (borrowed) dehumidifier was running.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Do dehumidifiers cost a lot to run?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

It will have the wattage on it. It is a very easy mathematical equation.

Watts x hours used / 1000 x Unit Rate of Electricity round up for inefficiencies

Re: The energy crisis
 

But that doesn't allow for the heat recovered

Re: The energy crisis
 

It is all close enough. I went round most of my kit measuring usage from the plug and measuring from the specs and my estimates are pretty damn close month to month and year to year

Re: The energy crisis
 

You have missed the point. A dehumidifier recovers heat that would otherwise be lost. But it's hard to measure.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Richard asked how much they cost to run. Please tell me point missed or not would my equation give him a rough idea of running costs or not?

---------- Post added at 21:42 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

Octopus have set their electric unit rate at 33.02p which is the lowest rate country wide. The highest 35.98 North Wales and Mersey

Re: The energy crisis
 

Bulb is 35.05 but their standing charge is 38.94 compared to Octopus 44.71, I've not done the maths but I guess Octopus is cheaper over all?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yeah if you use 10 KWH per day you are at 20p per day so 14p more hahaha

Re: The energy crisis
 

I may have to sell the house so I can afford it! :D

Re: The energy crisis
 

hahahahaha it all adds up its like a pint in a month hahaha

Re: The energy crisis
 

just got a email my DD just doubled from £100 to £213.58 per month not happy

Re: The energy crisis
 

On cost of running dehumidifier - one report I read suggested a couple of hundred a year or more. One figure was closer to £500 than £200, no mention on age of unit or how used.

Re: The energy crisis
 

do the maths on your consumption and the new rates then you will know what the DD should be

Re: The energy crisis
 

I have a small unit that says 9.5L a day removed. Power is 230W so about 1 unit every 4 hours.

Latent heat of vapourisation of water is ~ 2.3KJ / Kg so the amount of recovered heat for 9.5L is about 22KJ in 24 Hours. About 1KWh so the 230W is almost quadrupled for heating the room.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Thanks - that's the figure I wanted. Though in my experience it never removes anywhere near the maximum quoted volume of water.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Bulbs standard rate in my area is 33.017p, which rounds up to the same 33.02p.

However, my rate actually works out cheaper, at 31.90p as I'm on Economy 7 :)

Re: The energy crisis
 

I'm on a prepayment meter and have just been sent my projected cost for the next year.

£100 more!!! Ah well the £600 I'm getting will cover that.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My new rate 35.739 /kwh
standing charge 55.759 /day provider e on next

disappointing when you factor in we are surrounded by wind farms [another con]

Re: The energy crisis
 

Thats like asking do light bulbs cost a lot to run.

As with anything, the answer depends on the wattage of the device.
A 250W dehumidifier will use 1KWH of electricity every 4 hours (about 35p at the new rates).

The "recovered heat" is irrelevant to the actual cost of electricity while its running.

However, it does (should) mean you need to run it less hours overall to maintain a desired room temperature.

Re: The energy crisis
 

34p at the new rates per 4 hours

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-l...orest-12712013

Re: The energy crisis
 

Or instead of Tax the producers could just charge less

Re: The energy crisis
 

Bah, thats what happens when you rush posts, brain disengaged. Fixed.

Re: The energy crisis
 

They DO NOT set the prices, the markets do.:rolleyes:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yeah you keep repeating that. I still consider it bull crap same as I as I did the first time you said it. Just because the market sees the supply demand if the producers really wanted to they could charge what they want. The market is artificial. Cut out the broker sell direct

Also if the government refuse to tax the producers why don't the producers just give them the money. Of course Shell could jus tbe saying tax us knowing the government wont tax them so they can raise their image

Re: The energy crisis
 

My octopus bill arrived today


:Yikes::Yikes::Yikes::Yikes::Yikes::Yikes::Yikes:: Yikes::Yikes::Yikes::Yikes:

Re: The energy crisis
 

I am with Octopussy as well and my bill for both is 106.78 a month.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Are you living in a hut?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

How? One fridge. One freezer+computers. Do you shower every day?Hoooooooooooooooooooow?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Jesus that can't be right, mines £99 a month after rebate with Bulb, with 1 person in the house.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You're not running a cottage steel smelting business are you? seriously though does seem excessively high !!!

Re: The energy crisis
 

Or growing something in the attic? Those heat lamps aren’t cheap to run.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Is the recovered heat enough to heat the room to the extent that the usual heating could be turned down or even off though?

If so, this could be deducted from what the dehumidifier costs to run.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Subjectively I'd say no based on ours. There is a very slight warming effect maybe but in winter you would need conventional heating to reach comfortable temperatures.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Also bear in mind that electricity is roughly 4 times more expensive per kWh than gas. So even if every unit of electricity used by the dehumidifier eventually heated the room it’s in, that heating would be considerably more expensive than the equivalent energy delivered via a gas boiler and radiators.

Obviously it’s a tad more complex when you take efficiency of heaters into account but you get the general idea.

Basically, use a dehumidifier if you need to dehumidify your living space, but it isn’t effective as a substitute space heater.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's worth noting that an adult gives out about a pint of water a day just by breathing, and around half a pint whilst sleeping. Very humid air is not good for those with asthma or CPOD, whilst very dry air can affect the sinuses.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Rota power cuts feature in National Grid’s ‘worst case’ planning for this winter, should UK gas supplies run low. We generate 40% of our electricity from gas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63155827

Re: The energy crisis
 

I am tempted to buy a portable powerstation to keep my laptop going so I can be entertained

Re: The energy crisis
 

If it happens (and it really is the worst case, not considered likely) you’re likely to be off-mains for about 3 hours late afternoon/early evening, maybe once or twice a week. Unless your laptop battery is old, hopefully you’ll be ok.

I wondered about buying a UPS just to keep the router going, seeing as the kids would absolutely hammer their phones’ monthly data allowance otherwise. I also wondered about how to get power to the central heating system, seeing as they’re talking about cutting electricity but not gas, but that’s more complex than it first seems as mains electricity is used at several points in the system, within the boiler, pumps, valves and thermostats. If there’s not just one main power cable I can plug in then I’m not competent to start digging around.

Re: The energy crisis
 

And your router…

Re: The energy crisis
 

Neither marijuana growing nor bitcoin mining :D The house is just very large for two people (kids moved out).

Octopus customer care was useless."nothing to worry, it is just an estimate". I have now emailed them. Let's wait and see.

PS Did you know? When it snows, the police checks houses with roofs without snow, to catch people growing stuff in the attic.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Your estimate sounds wayyyyyy over - there are two of us in a 4 bed detached, and our estimate from ShellEnergy is £343 per month…

Re: The energy crisis
 

How would they decide who to sell it to? How do they decide what the prices should be? If somebody bought it relatively cheaply, they would sell it on for a higher price, and you would be right back where you started.
Prices can end up low as well as high. That is the risk they take.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Risk...

<snigger>

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-last-50-years

https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/en...lained-1774927

Re: The energy crisis
 

Link
Pre-covid.
Still leaves the eternally never answered questions of:-
How would they decide who to sell it to?
How do they decide what the prices should be?

Re: The energy crisis
 

£2.3 billion a day profit....

Re: The energy crisis
 

Nah got hordes of media local no need for tinerweb and if I did I for browsing I would usb tether

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

5G backup for me. I can’t believe I’m in the fifth richest economy in the world :rofl:

Re: The energy crisis
 

By what "measure"?

Other countries, including Germany and France, have been making "worst case" plans. Nothing unique to the UK or wealth of country.
We are exporting electricity to France, Belgium, and the Netherlands, so they must desperately need it at the moment.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I agree our economic decline probably means we aren’t the fifth richest economy int the world. Still, I shouldn’t be asked to tolerate 3 hours of blackouts. That’s supposed to be the type of event that distinguishes us from a failed state.

The fact other countries will likely be joining us is a red herring.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You still haven't answered the question of "by what measure".
The FACT that other even richer(by whatever measure) countries are ALSO making plans for possible, IE not definite, scenarios it not a "red herring". Saying it's a "red herring" is actually the "red herring".:rolleyes:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Of course it isn’t a red herring - it’s a clear indication that exceptional circumstances apply, and the usual metrics might not be useful.

Re: The energy crisis
 

If a number of economies all fell for the false belief the private sector alone could (and indeed would) satisfy all our needs that collective failure doesn’t detract for our own.

Given your penchant for British exceptionalism, I’d have expected you to have not accepted being the average of following the sheep as an excuse for our lack of energy security.

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------

My measure is I expect the role of the state is to ensure energy security rather than rely on “the markets”, Russia or the Middle East.

I expect when I flick the light switch it to go on. That’s my measure. I don’t live in South Africa where rationing is a part of life.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Oh please.

You proposed that energy supply problems were an indicator of a ‘failed state’. There are miles of clear blue water between ‘long-term policy failure’ and ‘failed state’.

I actually thought you were better at nuance than this.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It’s absolutely the measure of a failed state. That’s why I’m surprised to see it (proposed) here.

Re: The energy crisis
 

We’re exporting because we have very very limited storage compared to other nations. But as per usual you knew that already and chose to ignore

Re: The energy crisis
 

Apart from The Electric Mountain, what other ELECTRICITY storage does the UK have? Will all the electric vehicles have to plug into the grid to give up their power? :dunce::dunce:

Re: The energy crisis
 

[QUOTE=Taf;36136210][QUOTE=mrmistoffelees;36136202]We’re exporting because we have very very limited storage compared to other nations. Bugger got that terribly wrong apologies all

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

How has any of that got anything to do with how "rich" a country is?
Only 5% of our gas requirements have come from Russia. For the EU as a whole it's 40%. Germany by itself 55%. Germany doesn't have any LNG facilities for importing gas, the UK has 3.

Which situation would you rather be in? UK, EU, Germany?
There were shortages and price increase before Russia did anything.

The problem is that each country will try and outbid others for whatever gas there is.
South Africa relies on ageing coal-fired plants, which are having problems, just as France's Nuclear plants are/were having problems.
At this very moment, we are exporting 1GW to France, 1GW to Belgium, and 1GW to the Netherlands. If it wasn't for the UK, one or more of those countries would be facing blackouts.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

I’m with JFman on this. Failed state my be over egging it, but it is certainly a failure of government that we find ourselves in. I would argue that the circumstances are not that exceptional, not to country that would/should anticipate that geo political circumstances in countries that have a lot of energy can change rapidly. A country that outsources it’s energy needs is always on thin ice.

We as a nation have an abundance of energy reserves. We should look to releasing them in the coming decades.