Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Must be all that spare time from giving up smoking... :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Gotta keep myself occupied somehow!;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Hmmm....I've had a search around and can find nothing about this allegation, regarding a lump of concrete. Where did you hear about it? I thought the IPCC were still investigating.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It's not an allegation as such just an alternate explanation ,it could have been a brick or a lump of wood if proven that it wasn't a trunction .

I think the fact the police have charged him means they have proof that he was hit with something other than a trunction ,but conspiracy theorists and cop haters will no doubt call it a vendetta against him for daring to complain against the police

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

There seems to be a few of those.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

As discussed earlier in this very thread there is little or no merit in considering the two issues as interdependant. You saying that you think that he has been charged because they may have proof that he was hit by a missile actually makes you look like a conspiracy theorist.

That said, the subsequent silence on the matter of how the injury was caused is very unusual.

Both parties have had considerable time to make / state the facts as known to them and corroborated by medical evidence (x-rays, surgeons, doctors, paramedics, etc) together with other sources such as camera and phone video footage - yet neither have.

There is also the matter of the IPCC still appealing for witnesses to the incident.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I think they are being treated as interdependant to an extent ,i'm not saying that is the correct way to do it though .The police and the IPCC will be fully aware that all eyes are on them in how they deal with this situation .I doubt if the police would have charged him unless they have a lot of proof that he was involved in some misdemeanour ,probably gleaned from the cctv footage they where going through looking to see what hit him on the head .

The police have 2 choices imo regarding this matter
A) They can uphold the law and charge him with any offence he has committed regardless of any complaint under investigation ,treating the two incidents totally seperate which is right and proper imo
B) They can wait untill they know the likely outcome of the inquiry and then follow through with any prosecution for offences committed knowing they are in the clear so to speak ,which i will grant is the wrong way to do it imo .The polce do not have the luxury to decide who they prosecute so the can spare their blushes or limit damage to the force

Cases like this can very easily be turned into a damage limitation exercise ,by finding the smallest thing to charge him with the police can use that as justification for using force ..not something i think they will be doing ..i hope ,i am merely using that as an example of a way they could be treating this as interdependant

I agree that it is peculiar that the IPCC are still asking for witnesses which suggests that the investigation is still in the early stages .Also i do not know if the police will get any advance warnings of results or if they are released to the public at the same time .

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

As I mentioned earlier I found the timing, not simply his being charged, of him (and the others) very unusual. They were all, apparently, banned from Westminister and its surrounding areas for a short period of time - just enough time to see out the royal wedding today.

It'll certainly be interesting to learn the outcome of the IPCC investigation and I would hope to find therein the reasons behind this apparent wall of silence / lack of information in the public domain on the matter of how the injury was received / caused.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I agree ,secrecy and silence in these types of cases does no-one any favours .

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Sorry, I thought Derek said there was proof. I was wondering what form that proof took. He also implied the investigation was completed, so I am now wondering where the details of this completed investigation are.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

You thought wrong. I never said there was proof. Just like there was never any proof of his injury being the result of a baton strike.

The baton strike theory was taken as gospel by certain sections of the media at the time who now seem to be backtracking as miraculously no footage of young Alfie being set about by the Met has come to light.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

What Derek actually posted was Not quite what you are stating he said....

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

No ,as Mr A and i were discussing the investigation is still ongoing and indeed the IPCC are still asking for witnesses .However there are differencies in opinion as to the timing of the charge levelled at Meadows in relation to the ongoing investigation and indeed the motives of the police if any

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Sorry....but when Derek wrote:

I inferred he had information that the rest of us were not privy to, but, as it now appears, he might have been talking out of is rear end, again.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Again?

Oh well. We can wait and see the results of the IPCC investigation and the court appearances of young Alfred.

Seeing as the Guardian have toned down their language and aren't doing their usual trial by video clip I think the chances of his mothers and the ACAB brigade claims being shown to be bullcrap are pretty high.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I wonder if it will have the same outcome as Blair Peach. Or, maybe someone more recent.

---------- Post added at 16:20 ---------- Previous post was at 16:20 ----------

Better than having a trial by guessing, isn't it.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Any unsolved murders are awful, but you don't seem to focus on the unsolved murder of PC Keith Blakelock as much as others you mention, do you?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Of course not because he was a member of the establishment and they are never innocent.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Flyboy's highly partisan attitude to such things is legendary, especially when the police or Tory MPs are in the dock.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Where are the parallels with Keith Blakelock? I don't understand? Here, today, we have an innocent member of the public, killed at the hands of the police. Yes, by a member of the police service, that has now been established. Despite the efforts of the police service to attempt to prove otherwise. In nineteen seventy-nine, we also had another member of the public, beaten to death by the police during a demonstration, another fact now established. So far, in both circumstances, no one has been charged with their deaths. Please don't tell me that is something to celebrate.

PC Kieth Blakelock, as tragic and inhuman was his death, it was in very different circumstances. But, seeing as we are on that subject, we have yet another example of the fine work the Metropolitan Police Service have when it comes to fitting people up. If the detectives investigating the case had not centred their efforts on convicting the wrong man, the case would probably not be unsolved.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Hmmm. 2 in 32 years both of which aren't quite as clear cut as some sections of the media like to portray.

It's hardly Brazil is it?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but.......... It's yet another example of lies, corruption, extreme & deliberate brutality etc. etc. etc. on the part of the police....... :rolleyes:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Lets face it Flyboy will never change his spots, The story is about the police therefor they are wrong which means automatically he is right and to him that is the end of the debate. :rolleyes:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well he is a master debater to say the least.;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It is such a shame that so many so-called adults behave like little children.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

But enough about the rioting students.....;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

With all due respect you do seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the police in very many similar discussions.Is there any particular reason for this attitude? :erm:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I don't have a problem with policing, so long as it is done in a way which benefits society; the ways in which it is meant to. My issues are with those officers who choose to police in a way which departs from the principals laid down to protect the public. All figures of authority should be held to a higher standard than those who they excercise their prerogative over. What is just as worse, however, are those among them who seek to conceal the poor behaviour of their colleagues and others, or even attempt to justify, encourage or ignore it; as we have witnessed in this case.

The basis of this opinion is that two wrongs do not make a right. Because Mr Tomlinson was not walking away from him fast enough, does not justify the actions Harwood took. The jury at the inquest concur with that opinion.

Regardless of what many may think, I have a huge respect for the police service and what it stands for. I sit on my local NAG committee, I am chair of our local residents' association and co-chair of the neighbourhood watch, all of which cannot survive without a good relationship with our local police service. However, what I cannot respect, nor condone, are those officers who abuse their position and I am aghast at those who do. When I was growing up, I witnessed police officers doling out summary punishments to children as young as nine years old, one thirteen year old friend was left with two black eyes and a a bloody nose after "showing disrespect" to one officer. I have witnessed them planting evidence on youngsters as young as twelve. This was just the tip of a very large iceberg.

Even after all of that, I still have a huge admiration for those who step up to the mark and dedicate their professional lives to upholding the law and remaining on the right side of morality. I have met and know a great many brave and dedicated police officers, who would not even flinch in the face of danger and threat. But, I will not sit quietly by and watch their efforts destroyed by a minority, who would seek to tarnish the reputation of so many good men and women.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yes you have so much respect for them that, despite the numerous posts you've made with respect to the police, this is the first time I can recall you saying anything positive about them at all. :confused:

Despite there having been no criminal trial, you've already made up your mind that Mr Tomlinson was 'beaten to death' despite the fact that the official view was that officer concerned had used "excessive and unreasonable force" resulting in unlawful killing. Your deliberate choice of highly emotive words before any prosecution for manslaughter is hardly evidence of a fair-minded approach or any real concern about the service you now claim to be so supportive of.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Listen. It's the first time they've been out of bed before 3pm.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Point taken.

Bet you're delighted Flyboy's on your side after all........ :rofl:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

In other news swinging from a flag on the Cenotaph has been confirmed as a really bad idea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-13309662

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13578369

Seeing he is a professional protestor I wonder if he will protest this decision? :scratch:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Excellent news :clap:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

this'll open up the flood gates- what next police drag screaming baby from pram :shocked:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

As a keen supporter of the police I'm sure Flyboy will be particularly pleased about this...... :D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:LOL:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

He is taking it quite well ;)

From his twitter page

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Flyboy has a Twitter page???......... :eeek:

:D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Maybe Flyboy will make an appearance when he sees us all having a laugh about Jody McIntyre, all we need now is for the Gilmore fool to be jailed and we can all have really good laugh.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

only to claim that the system is all wrong because a copper was cleared ,the same system that finds them guilty when warranted,no doubt we should have 2 systems,one for guilty cops and one so innocent cops can be found guilty anyway

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I have everything crossed that can be hoping and hoping he goes to jail.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Ooof. He is not a happy bunny at all. :D

Maybe the best way to move them is tell them a riot is going on at the top of a building nearby and watch them leap out the chair and bound up several flights of stairs. It seemed to work for Mr McIntyre a few weeks prior to this incident... :erm:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Perhaps he's been struck down by SDS (selective disability syndrome) the debilitating effects of which only manifest themselves in the proximity of the police...... :D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

And now young Charlie Gilmour will be able to read all about what the Cenotaph is and why swinging on one of the flags is a bad idea for the next 16 months.

He blamed his actions on the after effects of an LSD trip plus taking valium and alcohol. Surely trying to blame drugs, either legal or illegal, for your actions should attract a higher sentence as a deterrent for getting wasted and not being in control of your behaviour?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Excellent news :clap:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I suppose it's just as well Charlie Gilmour didn't just declare himself a muslim, and then burn the union jack right here on our own soil.
Noone ever seems to get 16 months in prison for that...

In 2004, Otis Ferry broke into parliament during a prohunt protest, causing a security lockdown and significant extra cost to the taxpayer, punishment? £350 fine. Odd that.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

She's been banged up, excellent. Quite a harsh sentence to considering the weak or should that be week sentences we have become used to.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I think it's a bit steep, considering the crimes that many people get suspended sentences for. Everybody has had their moment of foolishness and did stupid things in their life they later regret, myself included. Just as a wise man once said - let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

lol, I think everybody thought it was a she when they first saw that DM photo !

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well there's always someone or something else to blame isn't there... :rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14150800

Hopefully a spell in clink will focus this very fortunate young man's mind a little. That's if he can stay off the drink and drugs for any length of time...

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Looks like he had that covered as well.

http://www.spankthenews.com/imageslo...lmour-rock.jpg

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

He's got real purty lips.....

I bet he will be popular.......

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I think that these word are what he will be saying now?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I hope his soap is on a rope. :LOL:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Maybe the judge took into consideration the fact that he was blaming drugs for his behaviour ,either way he'll probably be out for the new year

anyway he's nothing special in the clink ,his fame counts for nothing ,he's just another brick in the wall :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:clap:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Hmm. 16 months in prison... What exactly will that achieve apart from appeasing the public's lust for blood? I'd say give him a length community service, preferably working with injured soldiers returning from Afghanistan. He surely needs a sort of punishment, but I seriously doubt if prison is the way to go. With all the publicity this has generated, I'm not so sure if the risk of re-offending is that great. I definitely don't think that having him as a guest of HMPS courtesy of the taxpayer will achieve a great deal.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

16 month, well he'll probably serve about 8 month, if that. But it just might prevent others from doing the same thing.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Sorry Danielf but l have to disagree with you because if it was me l would have given him 5 years for what he did especially for his total lack of any common decency on the Cenotaph and also for his other disgraceful acts as well.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It does have to be put in perspective .We see burglars and muggers get community service and yet someone who swings off the cenotaph ,although morally outrageous to decent people a relatively harmless incident get jail time .I think the real issue here is how do we get consistency in sentencing

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yes l do agree that we should have more consistency in sentencing policy and to do this l believe we need a root and branch reform of the all of the judicial system.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

He was sentenced for violent disorder, not for climbing the Cenotaph.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It demonstrates yet again, what a backwards little nation we've become. If you're an illegal immigrant, you can run over a girl whilst disqualified and get 4 months in prison. And STILL get to remain in the UK.

You can burn poppies on Armistice Day, and get a £50 fine.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...rch-poppy.html

And you can burn our national flag, the same flag so many gave their lives to defend, and as far as our justice system is concerned, noone bats an eyelid.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...og&sa=N&tab=wi

But yet if a student (especially one from a privileged background) tries to climb up the union jack, then the British public suddenly demands retribution.

I find it interesting that the public want Mr. Gilmour keel-hauled because he climbed the cenotaph, whereas the state wants him keel-hauled because he chucked a plastic bin at one of the Royal escort cars.
And despite the court ruling and everything that has been reported, from most of the comments I've read from readers on the various news outlets, the public seems quite content to pretend that Mr. Gilmour was jailed for climbing the cenotaph.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well UKUncut's bunch of excruciatingly middle class trustafarians like to pretend they are working class, in tune with the man on the street. Now dear Charlie gets a chance to get very in tune with the men taken off the street. :)

EDIT: I love the selective liberalism in the post above and the indignation at the public's ignorance. Ignorance is always fine when it works in one's favour, see the entire premise of the anti-cuts campaign for more.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Which included climbing the cenotaph ,swinging from a union jack kicking a window (not breaking it)and jumping on the bonnet of a jaguar that formed part of the royal escort ,yes i do believe that a jail term is appropriate but are his offences more serious than this piece of **** ?who didn't get jail

I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have got jail ,i'm arguing that other more serious crimes should be punished more vigorously

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It sends a message. You are allowed to protest but step out of line and we will hammer you.

8 months... Aye right, I reckon he'll be out by Xmas. :mad:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:clap:

Uk uncut is just an excuse for a weekend's fighting and smashing windows.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Somehow I can't see this guy serving more than a couple of months. An appeal will follow, the sentence will be reviewed downwards and 'justice' will go the way it normally does......

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

He stands a good chance of being successful on appeal because the orignal sentence is not proportional to his crime. I struggle to see what he got that for, looking at what he was charged with there doesn't seem to be anything that warrants a spell in prison. Let alone 16 months.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yes, it will do that, but is still seems an utterly disproportionate sentence to me. Hell, people get up to worse than what he did on weekend nights in city centres up and down the country (with actual violence against persons), and they get nowhere near the sentence he did.

Apart from sending out a message, there is no purpose served by sending him to prison, let alone for 16 months. This type of offence is what community service was invented for. Letting the moron help out and speak to injured soldiers a day a week for a year would be a far more effective way of drilling some sense in to him.

It's stupid kneejerk sentencing, and I hope the appeal judge will have more sense and hand out a more appropriate sentence.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Actually, for violent disorder you can get up to five years.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

chuck the book the book at this boy for what he did

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

They did :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Nope the sentencing is entirely within the guidlines.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/s...lent_disorder/

Lets have a look at the aggravating factors.

Busy public place. = Yep
Large group, = Yep
people put in fear. = Maybe
Vulnerable victims, = OK I'll give him this, he's lucky the Royal protection officer didn't shoot him
weapons, = Yep
fighting between rival groups. = Nope
Planning/organisation. = Hmmm, he just happened to have surgical gloves and face covering to hand :rolleyes:
Racially/religiously aggravated. = Nope
Injuries/damage. = Luckily no
Violence towards Police. = Yep
Disguises. = See above, face covering and rubber gloves.

Seeing he could have got up to 5 years the 16 months seems fair. He was involved in looting Top Shop and tried to set fire to a building during his drink and drug fuelled binge.
Impulsive action. Provocation.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

l have to disagree with you because l would have given him 5 years at least because it would have set a precedent so others would not follow his example and do this in future protests.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well, according to the Independent, the actual charges were throwing a bin at the car carrying royal protection officers, as well as kicking a window at Top Shop.

Hardly running battles, and it doesn't seem to me that anyone was actually at any risk of injury (apart from himself/his foot). Don't get me wrong, I do think he deserves some punishment, it just seems that sending him to prison seems disproportionate and serves little purpose. It's not like he was fighting running battles with the police and throwing stones. I'm not sure if I'd class a bin as a weapon either. As I said earlier, the average city centre sees worse violence on an average weekend, and that doesn't seem to attract the same level of punishment.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

From what I understand his charges didn't even relate to the incident at the cenotaph.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------

Indeed you can, but you have to be very, very violent and very, very disorderly to get it. Throwing a bin at a car is nowhere near what you would typically get sixteen months for, let alone five years.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

No, they relate to throwing a bin at a moving vehicle, thereby endangering the health, if not the lives, of the occupants (which he must surely have been aware of) and by extension the safety of members of the Royal family (which he was almost certainly aware of).

If someone threw a large object at me while I was driving my car, I would sincerely hope that the threat to my safety caused by the incident would result in the offender being dealt with very firmly.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I am sure I would as well, but looking at the context, which I am sure you would be keen on observing, the car seemed to have stopped, if not was moving very, very slowly as it had been blocked by the crowd.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Oh, that makes it ok then......:erm:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Not in my mind as nobody can excuse his violent and disrespectful behavior in this shocking episode.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

But there would be a difference between throwing a brick at a fast moving car and a bin at a slow moving car. It's unlikely he would have seriously risked their life by throwing a bin - my understanding the bin was not especially hard or heavy such as the concrete ones usually found around London - more likely he risked damaging the car.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Umm - if you're driving a car slowly through a crowd and a large black object suddenly comes into view heading towards you, what's the chance of you accidentally swerving and injuring someone who's leaning on your vehicle? Or do you realise it's only a plastic bin and don't react?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

But the fact remains he still threw the item and that is violent behavior.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I am arguing that the sentence was excessive, not that he didn't commit a crime.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

l am sorry Damian but l do not think the sentence was harsh enough when you take off the 50% remission for the sentence.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Damien. Yes, You disagree. That's the way these things go.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I don't think anyone is, just trying to bring it into perspective.

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

It wasn't coming "towards" them. At worse it just bounced of the boot. So I doubt the driver had much time to react at all. He wouldn't have even seen it, more like just heard the thud when it came from behind. Also I am pretty sure that the royal cavalcade employs pretty solid and reliable drivers who are trained to cope with many situations, far worse than than a civil disturbance.

I am not condoning his behaviour, just countering some rather silly overreactions.

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

But the sentencing is inconsistent with what see in other cases. If we were to apply such precedents as this, the courts and prisons would be overflowing more than they are now. The yobs, who cause worse on a Friday and Saturday night, in city centres throughout the country, end up with a nominal fine and/or a few hours CPO,; very rarely are they sent to prison and almost never for sixteen months.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

A large number of the people arrested at Fortnum and Mason have had their charges dropped.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14189892



---------- Post added at 18:25 ---------- Previous post was at 18:24 ----------

It's very consistent with sentences for other charges of violent disorder. Acting in a group for a common illegal goal will always attract a higher sentence than single incidents.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Met police in lying shocker!

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

stupid students in falling for the "oldest trick in the book" shocker ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Having looked up a couple of cases, it does look like you're right in terms of consistency. What strikes me as odd however, is that generally, in cases like this, the risk of re-offending is relatively low, compared to the yobs that terrorize the city centre on a weekend.

Take Fernie Francis for instance. Twelve months in prison for throwing two sticks used for placards at the police. I'm not condoning it, but is anyone really better of by sending this lad to prison? Is he a threat to the public? Most likely, far less so than a lot of the people getting ****ed on a weekend night. Same with Charlie Gilmour imo. Proper morons that throw fire extinguishers off roofs endangering people's lives, send them to prison by all means, but I fail to see why this can't be handled with community service that can actually entail an element of education, at least in cases where it's a first offence.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I have to agree ,i am wondering what manner of violent thug was spared a fully justified jail term because his cell was taken by gilmore .I would far sooner numpties like gilmore were given humiliating community service (and forced to do it)than some hardened crim get let out early or not get jail at all just so a cell can be made available for the likes of gilmore .I am thinking that all this jail term will do is turn gilmore into some sort of student hero because he went to jail ,took one for the team so to speak

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It's a deterrent effect. If people see that they can go on a wrecking spree during a protest and get away with a slap on the wrist then the next time a protest happens more and more people will get involved.

If when it starts getting a bit feisty they think "Hang on a sec, I might end up as the prison bike if I keep this up" then its job done.

I'd say the sentences for general crimes are too lenient, not that the sentences for violent disorder are too harsh. Mind you I am a fully paid up member of the hang em and flog em brigade.

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

He'll be taking more than one for the team. :shocked: :Yikes: :erm:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yeah, and I'm not. I don't really buy into the deterrent thing. The risk of getting caught is a bigger deterrent than the punishment imo. Either way, I think it's stupid to send people to prison for a moment of insanity that has had no real consequences, and never put people in harm's way. It's also a waste of money that could be spent on more worthwhile things. Isn't that exactly what community service is for?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

deterants only work if people think before they commit the crime and in the case of the student riots we are talking about students ..and a lot of heat of the moment stuff....and students ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

If you're quite rightly implying that people shouldn't believe anything the police say, then we're on the same page. ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I'm not in the hang em high brigade ... But neither do I buy the claim of "moment of insanity" when someone has gone to a protest kitted out with a mask and gloves. He obviously intended to do things that might make his identity of interest to the boys in blue. And his "moment" was caught on several cameras, in several locations, over an extended period of time during the day.

He went intent on hell raising and took steps not to get caught. Personally I am very comfortable with the principle of him being made an example of.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Indeed :LOL:

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

As am i :tu: