Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I haven't heard them say they left them every night, or indeed how many nights they did it. Have you? Or are you just believing what you hear on web discussion sites?

and in answer to your second point - yes

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I think you'd find that it was not a one off and in fact a frequent occurence on their holiday to leave the kids alone in bed whilst going to dinner. When the story first broke it was one of the criticisms made at the McCanns, saying that any paedo/abductor could have monitored their patterns and reached a conclusion that she'd be alone in the evening.

It might not have been every night, but it was definately more than one.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

you are really extracting the urine now matey

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well you take offence to whatever you like.

For fear of going side ways here:

If you are mugged but don't know by who, and you report it to the police who would they suspect more,

1. the gang of hoodys
2. the gang of GPs

all I'm saying is that in my opinion I would not expect two doctors to be willfully neglectful, and /or willfully harm their child.

That is not a crazy view point to have - is it

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yes it is. :rolleyes:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

They left the kids while they went out ergo they were neglectful fact not fiction so your judgements are wrong. And you have now openly admitted you are prejudiced and therefore not to be taken seriously

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Harold shipman ring a bell with you he was doctor and he took the "do no harm" oath yeah that worked. People are people irrespective of their profession. Your arrogant view of people is staggering i see on a daily basis the love we council tenants have for our kids and the care we take of them. Your assertion only proves that profession will get them off when the single mum would have had social services all over her by now.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Relax everyone. Your all going crazy, there is no need to get angry at each other. If people want to blame the parents let them, and same for those who are defending them. It's not going to hurt the feeling of anymore nor effect the case. Everyone is too emotional about this story now.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Also, In Pierre's defense, I suspect that their are higher levels of crime and possibly bad parenting in poorer communities.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

and being prejudiced towards a class of people is what exactlly? thoughtful intelligent? reasonable? none of the above

---------- Post added at 12:46 ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 ----------

who do you think the biggest crooks in society are? the poor? or those who constantly fiddle the tax or corruption in business? what do you think costs the taxplayer most? the poor or the rich fiddlers?corruption knows no class

I also hope your not saying you have to have money to be a good parent there

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

If your a demonstration of intellect then ignorance is preferable. how you can say that any parent is worse then another defeats what your saying. If it is just profession that stops you thinking the worst then your opinion of parenting isn't that high.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

You might find little evidence of people accusing them that they DID do the dirty deed here.

What people are getting confused with here is that there are those that say they are innocent full stop, and there is those that have an open mind. I'm struggling to find those that say they DID actually harm maddie with the same conviction of those that say they are innocent.

The most conflictual point is just that, how can people be so sure to the point they will say they are innocent as in 'that IS fact'.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I agree that they are innocent till proven guilty on the harming of maddie in whatever way that harm was meant to have been caused. Presumption of innocence is one of the cornerstones of our legal system and should always be the position people take. I have read some things on other forums that make this one seem like a tea party chat and i do not agree with it.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Profiling.......................

Ever heard of it?

Police use it all the time.

Shout me down all you want but my point was at the begining was that a family of two middle class GPs and 3 kids does not in my opinion fit into a profile where they would be neglectful to them and/or even kill them.

It's a generalisation, but that's what profiling is. Sure there can and will be exceptions.

But it's a valid point, so you can all calm down now.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I am guessing there are less incidents involving corruption than petty theft, shop-lifting, muggings etc. Although I would suspect that corruption costs even more to the population. Either way, the former does not lead to other crimes and anti-social behavior in the way poverty in inner-city estates do.

No, I am saying that poverty can led to situations in which crime is more common. As well as that in such environments their are additional strains on the parents, especially if they are single mothers (a group more likely to find themselves in poverty as well).

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Out of interest can you tell me what profiling is and also how it works and perhaps more importantly how it used by the Police ?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I do disagree with this however, I do not think there is a profile for people who are more likely kill their own children.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I'm struggling to find anywhere where it states they killed maddie.

But it's plausible that they accidently killed maddie. Do they fit that 'profile'??

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I seriously doubt the police would start any investigation of a missing child by seeing if they were from a council estate or whether the parent\parents were not professional. As i understand it profiling would come into it after the initial stage of investigation where as your belief would have them looking at profession first and working down from there. You just have no idea how offensive you have been to millions of people in this country do you and also while your talking about justice for the mc'canns you did a great injustice to those millions of people.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

You'd find that from what the McCann family have to say, its more than once.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

To date I have not heard anything that condradicts this and I have seen family members on the news saying it was not a one off. Im positive the parents have alos said that it was not a one off.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Ok, fair enough on that one.

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------

You're a clever boy, look it up.

You weren't asking me, because you already know the answer and want to trip me up............. were you?

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:08 ----------

Fair enough more than once........twice?...........Three times?

I was originall objecting this statement by Ritzy thingy

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

It does not matter what anyone says leaving a 3 year old and two 2 years alone in an apartment while you go out for a meal whether 200 yards away or in the next town is just plain wrong and it is neglect whether done daily or just once its just not on full stop.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

If you read that article carefully you'll see that it was every night (as stated by Patricia McCann - a sister).

Further more....
Relatives of the couple revealed that the McCanns and three other couples on holiday with them, all doctors, tucked their children into bed each night and walked the 40 yards from their apartments at the Ocean Club run by British tour operators, Mark Warner in Praia da Luz on the Algarve to a poolside tapas bar.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Maybe I was and do. But then perhaps there are may be others on this thread who do not, so therefore my question(s) still stand

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I have not said that the police would be using profiling in this case.

My point was that In my opinion, no one elses. That I do not think that they come from the kind of background to willfully neglect their children - That is all.

I'm sure they'll get over it, and unless the amount of people who read this board has increased dramatically I'll doubt they ever read it to be offended.

Fortunately, I', sure all of these millions of people will sleep soundly tonight in blissful ignorance of my comments.

---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

Well it's irrelevant anyway, as my point was not that the police would be using profiling in this instance - maybe they will, maybe they wont.

I was just using the example to explain from where I was basing my gut instincts, i.e. they don't into my profile, that's all.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

whole bloody posse of well educated idiots there then

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I suppose the parents from this incident last year are to blame for not locking the door.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/child/stor...676508,00.html

Apparantly they were guilty of not locking the door on several occasions.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

What the........... :confused:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Hopefully the ending will be the same girl returned alive.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Here's a question: who are worse, parents who leave their children alone for a few hours (putting them at risk of abduction) or parents who do not have their children immunised against measles (putting them at risk of death)?

I wonder how many parents in the second category have been charged with child abuse.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

We can go down that route of questions for ages.... The point people are making is that there should be no doubt that leaving kids alone (where the eldest is 4) consistently while you go out for a meal is negligent. We are talking about the McCanns. Were they negligent? In my opinion, yes they were. What others do has nothing to do with the argument.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

My point is that some people seem to be blaming the McCanns for what happened, as if they were "asking for it" (an abduction) to happen. These same people will probably not say anything if a non-immunised child dies after catching measles.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well actually I would, but thats more my dislike of ignoring the professional view of scientists and doctors in favor of people who know nothing.

Although I do not think the McCanns were asking for it. I just dont think they deserve to have so much media time. The fact that people go missing all the time yet in my town they put McCann posters up is a disgrace. More benefit would have been done if they put pictures of local missing children up, but because the media deemed this case special, people have given them special treatment they would not afford anyone else.

Its hypocritical. I understand why people care, the fact that they can relate and a lot of attention has been given to it, but it is wrong of the media is use this case to sell papers and send people into a emotional frenzy.

And now the papers are telling the public they are wrong to judge the McCanns? This whole thing is media driven, they put them in the spotlight, they made the mass-hysteria, then were the ones to start judging the McCanns! and once the backlash against the backlash happened then turn around and have a go at the public mood that they created!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

What gets my back up about the McCanns attitude, is that they wont accept any responsibilty whatsoever. Up to this day they still say they are 100% blameless.

It was discussed at great length near the beginning of this thread, that it wasn't just the threat of abduction, but what other things could have happened to those children while they were left on their own.

If, instead of abducting Madeleine, the alleged intruder had taken cash, goods etc. from the apartment, would their insurance company had paid out? No, they wouldn't because the McCanns would have been negligent by leaving the doors unlocked. They would have aided the intruder by their negligence.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I think XFS03 has hit the nail on the head it is their continuing declaration they have done nothing wrong that has riled so many people and heightened the anger in some. This whole neglect thing would have gone away a lot faster if they had just turned round and said "we made a mistake we did something we shouldn't have done but we never thought anything would happen" i think most people would then leave the matter alone but to be so bullish abut doing nothing wrong has made the mess that exists now.

TheNorm i think you will find most parents had a problem with the triple vaccination not the single and that most children are immunised just not how the government of the day would have liked it done. That like this situation was made a hundred times worse by the press.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I agree...and don't forget, the papers never lie. From the link posted earlier:-
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2459924.ece

"...I don’t for once mean the (British) press, which seems to me, despite its inevitable mawkish descents into sentimentality, to have acted pretty responsibly. The press has urged caution, expressed compassion and been reluctant to judge the McCanns...
...Despite popular thinking about journalists “making things up�, the traditional media are regulated. Things have to stand up from every angle. Facts matter. We have lawyers; we try not to libel or slander; to keep objective..."

So everything you read in the papers is true. I will retract all my pinches of salt.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Totally agree. What really annoyed me was when family members came on the TV saying that leaving kids alone was no different to eating in the garden, that they did it all the time so it was ok etc etc etc....

They took no responsibility for anything whatsoever. I know people greif in different ways, but saying they had done nothing wrong was saying "Yeah its ok to leave kids alone at night whilst we're out wining and dining"

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I understand the sentiment, but nevertheless the real issue is that a little girl was abducted and has not been found.

To use the analogy of the burgled house, I can imagine a thief justifying his actions by saying "they were asking for it, they left the door unlocked."

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

... Yep, as was every rape victim who ever walked down the street in a short skirt. :erm:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Exactly!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

You mean like this - BBC
"Mrs McCann has expressed her regret at leaving her children alone in their holiday apartment while she and her husband Gerry had dinner within the Ocean Club complex on the night Madeleine disappeared.
"We are just so desperately sorry. Every hour now, I still question, 'Why did I think that was safe?'," she said."

Or this
"Kate McCann said in interviews published Sunday in Britain that she is haunted with guilt over leaving the girl alone while she and her husband went to dinner ."

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Where has anyone said they deserved to have their kid snatched? Are you trying to say that those of us that say they acted negligantly are also saying that women in short skirts deserved to be raped?

I find your comparison in bad taste frankly and the post is an insult to the intelligence of the posters on here that are of the opinion that the McCaans acted negligently.

Can you not distinguish between the difference of saying that parents are negligent for leaving their kids alone at home every night whilst on holiday, to that, of a woman wearing a short skirt deserves to be raped? Its not the same and you know it.

Saddens me that intelligent posters on here go to that level.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

surely though, in this day and age it's about limiting the risks?
If I wander around a rough part of town waving a wad of cash around, it's only going to be a matter of time before someone hits me over the head for it.
I _should_ be able to go where I want to, and feel safe, but with the world the way it is today, you can't do that - and whist I don't think you can say someone was 'asking' for a crime (whether it be a mugging, or a robbery), a lot of life these days is about not exposing yourself, or your loved ones to excess risk.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

True. But at the end of the day, who committed the crime, the rapist, or the one who was raped?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well the only things i have heard which came from family and friends and the mc'canns themselves were that they did not feel they had done anything wrong. That was repeated many times for quite a while so maybe this new approach is because there has been such a backlash or maybe the new pr people are earning their crusts.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

It's over a month old. (Fox, August 7th)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I wouldn't put it so bluntly - it is more a "shift of focus" from the main issue.

The more we "limit the risks", the more the bad guys win.

There was an awful lot of anger directed to the McCann's, which should have been directed to the people responsible for the abduction.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

All of which serves to underline the point being made by that Times wifey this morning - the folly of trial by gossip and rumour which has been going on in this thread and dozens like it all over the internet.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Chris i think you know only too well that no one on here is even remotely thinking like that. If she has been abducted then of course ultimate blame lies with the abductor. But at the end of the day people can only be abducted if the oppurtunity allows it and routinely leaving anyone that is vulnerable is a stupid thing to do sadly sicko's live i our society and will take notice of chances to do what they want. Would maddie have been abducted if she had not been left alone in that apartment

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...284393,00.html

Sky again as usual so potentially sentationalism (sp?) but.......

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

In the case of the McCanns there are people who think they acted negligently and MAddie was abducted, as well as others who think they might be invoved in the dissapearance. Those who only believe they acted negilgently are not saying, as far as I am aware, that they deserved for their daughter to be abducted. They are not saying they are guilty of their kid being taken away.

So the rapist analogy isn't relevant. I dont see anyone here posting saying that the McCanns desrved what happened to them, maybe you can tell me otherwise. What people are saying is that they did act negligantly, I do not think that can be questioned and as a result Maddie is gone.

If you dont agree that their actions whilst on holiday is irresponsible or not negligent then thats your perogative. But to make assumptions of what we are thinking by comparing it with the comparisons that you have used is unwarranted and shows that you lack an understanding of what we are saying.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

So we shouldn't allow children to play outside the house? To cycle to school? To get on a bus?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Not if you have doubt that they are safe NO. But what people do in their home town or city is different to going abroad and taking a risk. So you think it was ok for them to go off all\most nights leaving the kids alone you think thats an acceptable risk ??? it is something you would do ???.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

How is it different to let your kids go out sight in this country and another country ? Sorry, I fail to see a difference, perhaps you can enlighten me ?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

No I don't and I wouldn't, and my first (and many since) post on this thread stated I believed they were negligent in doing this.

But posters are, like the newspapers, makings statements based on supposition rather than facts.

We had "they wont accept any responsibilty" and "it is their continuing declaration they have done nothing wrong", and when it was pointed out that they had, in fact, said how guilty and sorry they were, it was assumed they had only just done it, when in fact it was over a month before (it may have been before that, but I just took the first two I found).

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well my kids are now 14 and 16 and yes i let them out of my sight but at age four no i didn't. Does anyone on here allow their four year old to just wonder off on their own. The age of maddie plays a large part in this while as a parent i might want to wrap my kids up tight to protect them from anything bad as they get older i have to accept they have the right to go. But at age four safe distance was the end of my arm or my wifes arm and vision wise never more then a couple of metres from me when the wife had them.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

They didn't say that at the start. But then they have had PR management from very early on to 'assist' them. A month or so ago is a far cry from their original thoughts.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

They were adamant for at least a month and nearer two months forever that they were blameless in this situation that is a matter of record and yes i missed the updated version but i am sorry i am cynical about it.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

You appear to be missing the point; people stated (frequently) on this thread that they had never said sorry or regretted their actions - they, in fact, have.

It appears (imho) to show that people often see what backs up their viewpoint, not what is available.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

So why didn't they from the start why did they ever say they were blameless.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

But it also shows how confusing to see what is and what isn't the truth. So can you now see even on that different point. The differences in their story, going from 'we did nothing wrong and not blameless' to 'we were wrong and guilty' Is that not their thoughts or is that from their PRs.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

As the Times article pointed out this morning, what you are doing is judging the actions of a couple who were - and still are - under immense emotional pressure.

Your question, and your judgement which is implicit within it, simply isn't fair.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Why's that? Because of something you read?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Neither was that article that sought to completely put the blame for all this on the public. End of the day this whole affair has been fanned by leaks from all sides, by the press that goes oneway oneday and then another way the next. Fair treatment is treatment based on what people have seen and heard and on this forum people have been considerably fairer then on many many other forums. I am judging them yes i am i am judging them by my standards and the standards i see day in day out. If i had done what they did i would expect to be judged

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I used to go off on my own when I was 4 in Saudi at the shopping centres.
Used to do the same at the Havant Hypermarket, I'd go to the toy aisles while my mum did the shopping, then, while looking for her I'd normally get picked up by someone and taken to customer services where they'd call mum over the tannoy :D

I'd also snorkle up and down the first reef (about 100m from shore) in the Red Sea on my own.
Spent 5 years doing that, disapointedly, I only saw 2 sharks, both during the last weekend I was there :(
Oh and up in the mountains at Taif, I'd go off rock climbing on my own.

Also at 4 I used to go to the woods behind our estate where the older kids had built a BMX track.
The woods were full of kids back then, either racing round the track, building dens or daming the stream.
It's funny, back then, the woods were always full of life and sunny.
5 years later, and the older kids had grown up and moved on, and the younger one's parents were too scared to let thier kids out of their sight.
The river no longer got damed, no dens were made, no laughter was heard in the woods, they were darker, scarier.
Such a shame.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

#Back in the summer of '69 #

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I am not saying the world is a better place xaccers i wish i could feel comfortable letting my kids have the freedoms i had when i was a kid. I guess thats the joy of a media that revels in the dark side of life it does make you paranoid to a point and over protective and i am guilty of both of those.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Oi! I'm not that old!
We're talking 81 onwards here.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Touchy abut age you just know he is getting nearer to thirty then twenty :D.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I think it's more that the media are getting better at making parents feel uncomfortable about the world outside rather than there actually being a real reason to be that way.
Next generation will only be allowed in the same room as their parents.

Problem is, if everything is done for you, you don't learn how to be responsible for your actions, or even how to think for yourself.
I've seen that with several kids recently, they have absolutely no imagination.

There were paedophiles back when I was growing up too, they aren't a recent invention, I remember Charlie saying not to go off with strangers, and to ask mum first even if it means missing out on a trip because she's busy with the milkman (or was she on the phone?).

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Your right definately i would also put the playstation up there for the lack of imagination when i was a kid a wood was a place for many many hours of entertainemnt nowadays kids come home switch on the tele or the playstation and wollah life drains away. Thats the part of this that is so heartbreaking the thought that a little girl won't have the chance of all that or anything else although some people myself included are not always as good at communicating that as they are at criticising.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I had a freind in my early teens who'd phone up to see if you fancied doing something, I'd get round there and he'd be on his console, wouldn't share, as though all he wanted was an audience.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Never let facts get in the way.........

May 26th 2007 'The Guilt Will Never Leave Us'
""I think it's fair to say that the guilt that we feel, having not been there at that moment - irrespective of whether we had been in the other bedroom or not - will never leave us."
Kate said they blamed themselves for the disappearance in the early stages."

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Could it be that it took them 3 weeks to change their story to suit their public campaign?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

All we need now is few a more of you, enough to make a mob. We'll light some torches grab some pitchforks and have ourselves a good old hangin'

What do you say?........

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

What are you saying? That there are people saying they DID have something to do with her disappearance? Are we talking about the neglective parents? Hearsay? Media? Specific articles that cancel out everything since day one??

Would you like me to copy paste my thoughts from #1412

What exactly are we debating here?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

What about your thoughts from post #1121, or were you just hypothesising?

It appears from your posts if they had stated they were sorry two days after the child had disappeared, you would say why didn't they say it the first night.....
The three weeks was the time it took for the first TV interviews (as it said in the link).

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I have already seen that BBC item, but nowhere are there any quotes from the McCanns saying they accept any responsibility. Expressing regret or feeling sorry isn't the same as accepting responsibility.

btw, just for completeness that second quote should read:- "Kate McCann said in interviews published Sunday in Britain that she is haunted with guilt over leaving the girl alone while she and her husband went to dinner — a decision has raised questions in Britain and abroad."

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

So the McCanns saying things like ""We are just so desperately sorry. Every hour now, I still question, 'Why did I think that was safe?'" or "haunted with guilt over leaving the girl alone" isn't accepting responsibility?

Strange - I was brought up to believe you said sorry because you had done something wrong, and accepted what you had done was wrong; isn't that accepting responsibility?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Again no expression of responsibility. Actually that article also says:- "Kate said: "At worst we were naive. We are very responsible parents""

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

But the world has not become any less safe it is just as parents we percieve it to be (I'm pretty sure the statistics bear this out but don't have time to find any now) and as the times article points out we have competitive parenting resulting in the situation of who can be the most overprotective parent.

An interesting decade old story from here in NY
http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/14/denmark.parents/ (wow CNN had online stories back in 1997)
and a comment on that.
http://www.justmorons.com/articles/day040114.html
Cultural differences on how we parent can be significant.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Foreverwar, I don't have the answers, I don't have everything presented in front of me, laid out in a such a way that the answers flow so easy to me, sorry about that.

I don't like your tone that mostly all you do is argue the case rather than adding your own thoughts. To me that's very easy to do. Is it points that you are trying to score from certain people?

No one here is saying that the parents are to blame for the disappearance of the girl (yet, maybe, or never), but there are people are saying they do have something to answer to/for.

If people can say the parents ARE innocent, then as equal as that they can be guilty (as of this moment in time). To say one way or the other and say that is 'FACT', now that is opinionated, prejudice and pointless and not worth the paper it's printed on.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I suppose it depends on how you want to interpret it.

It would seem strange, though, that they would imply, in a roundabout way, that they were partially responsible, while at the same time telling us (in all 3 TV interviews, I think) that they were "very responsible" parents. Bit of a contradiction.

Also, I note from one of your earlier quotes "Kate said they blamed themselves for the disappearance in the early stages." So any responsibility they did feel soon wore off.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I feel for madeleine because no matter what anyone says she has suffered through the absolute stupidity of her own parents.:(

dinner/goodtime is ALWAYS<your children.:mad:

Edit:When this first happened it was a case of i hope they catch the people who took her and find her alive, because everyone knows what the world is like in this day and age *shakin me head* you just would never leave your children alone like that *dumb founded*

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well said. Some people just cant except that other people might not agree with their opinion. It must make their lives very difficult.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Sorry to post again so quick but
"Kate said they blamed themselves for the disappearance in the early stages."

Well that is true IF they had eaten at home that night none of this would have happened?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

You have a great example of group behaviour here though, all the parents in the group are doing it (don't know the ages of their children) so it becomes an acceptable behaviour.
They could well be not the only group of parents there doing this.
I imagine there are many parents who holiday there and in other similar resorts around the world thinking 'there for the grace of god go I'

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I have tried to present a balanced case based on facts, not emotions or tabloid reporting, so I am sorry you don't like my tone - if you had read my posts, you would have seen that I was defending the principle of "presumed innocent until proven guilty", whilst also stating that I believed they were negligent in leaving the children alone.

I am not trying to score points, just pointing out discrepancies in people's positions.

Not in the least - I just try and base my reasoning and beliefs on reported facts from official sources, not reported innuendo and latest breaking news/leaks which are contradicted hours/a day later.

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion - it's just a shame when posters descend to guarded insults when they are disagreed with. :dozey:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Kate & Gerry McCann are claiming that the DNA found in the hire car, could have come from soiled nappies used by the twins, Sean & Amelie.

Surely they would have been put in nappy sacks first though? Would they have put soiled nappies in the boot of the car without wrapping them up in a plastic bag first?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2...430482,00.html

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Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I am getting sick and tired of leaks from both sides. All it is doing is muddying the waters beause this latest thing comes from friends of the mc'canns as so much seems to. I will wait for further FACTS to emerge before commenting here again all this "that friend said this and that friend said that" is something i can't be doing with if the mc'canns have something to say damn well come out and say it yourself stop letting it drip feed out via your friends and family.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

... which just goes to show how little you understand about how messy the business of changing a nappy can be. ;)

---------- Post added at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------

I agree, although I wish it was as simple as that. The media, and forums like this, have the family (and their friends as well, now, it seems) on trial. You can't blame the family for trying to defend themselves and to exercise their right to reply.

If the rumour and allegation was not getting printed, I suspect the family would be happier for everything to quieten down. It'll be a long, cold day in hell before that happens though.

Incidentally, it's McCann, not mc'cann, their name is rendered in English, not Klingon. ;)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Oi! I've changed a fair few nappies over the years...unfortunately. :sick::D.


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Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I can

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offender_profiling

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Shurley you can't have forgotten how easy it is to get turd all over your fingers!

Doubtless full of dna that could be smeared all over the outside of a nappy sack, even if the turd fingerprints are invisible to the naked eye. Plus there's the fact that nappy sacks can get quite static-charged and could easily pick up and carry hairs.

Anyway, nuff said about nappies, the better.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

not forgetting when they've done a massive runnyish one, which squirts out the top at the back of the nappy when they lie down on the changing mat - as happened to me just this Sunday.
I said something along the lines of 'Oh Bother'.

..and before anyone (yes, I'm looking at you foreverwar & mrmistoffelees :) ) comes in and makes some comment about me wearing nappies, it wasn't me, it was my son.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Technically thats not you telling me though is it ?


;)

---------- Post added at 15:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:56 ----------


I find it harsh that you should think that I would put a slur(ry) against your good (well, mediocre, erm, poor ? erm, erm) name :erm:;)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

You know what they say - like father, like son...........

Do you, sorry, he, wear these?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

And every time you have had a nappy sac on hand. Congratulations.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

They wouldn't necessarily put it in a nappy bag if it was just wet and not soiled :shrug:

Not that this adds much, just thought i'd point it out :D

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Depends whether it's a real nappy or a disposable, really...