Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I think that's only a viable chain of thought if the person using the service doesn't breach the contract or T&C of the service that they signed up to and agreed to honour when they took the service.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I know there is no ntl 4mb service where did i say there was?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

there

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

but by reaching a cap do u breach the T&C's or contract.....going over the cap would, reaching & being downgraded wouldnt, as you are complying with there request to moderate usage....

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Im talking about all isp's not just ntl

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

So you havent got a clue, your just a troll who found his way from under the bridge. Well i will not be feeding you anymore, I have far better things to do on a sunday night.

Now where is that ignore button

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

You would be downgraded for breaching the new Usage policy attached to your contracted service. If you just achieve the cap limit and then stop your usage then I expect that you would be ok but then how many people would hit the cap exeactly and stop? ;) From what I have read NTL will only downgrade peoples tier levels if they consistantly breach the cap by a large margin.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Imaginary scenario ... as understood from most related posts

* 3 users on the same UBR as me download anything they can 24/7, which causes me problems.
* NTL twigs they're power users and charges them extra for exceeding the cap.
* I still have degenerated sevice, power users still download 24/7, NTL generate income.
*I still have bad service :rolleyes:

The only way my service would improve is if the power users were dropped to a low tier .... with the threat of a permanant drop for repeated overuse.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Shame you are doing so in an NTL cap discussion thread. Wonder how many people are going to hit the ignore button soon, personally I'm not as I'm just waiting for your next jewel of a post :)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I don't think NTL have annonced what they will do, but the indication on this forum is that they will do exactly what you suggest, and for the reason you indicate - i.e. drop to a lower tier for the rest of the month. If there is sufficient demand, I suspect they may well introduce metered broadband and use the income to upgrade the hardware and put the metered users on a lower contention ratio. Just my thoughts though.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

As long as you live in the 20% of the country that will be able to get it, AND you don't mind the fact that BT have admitted that most of the time the throughput will be arond 2mb.

Oh, and it won't be uncapped either.

Apart from that, 100% spot on! :tu:
__________________

I don't mind all the discussion on both sides, but I think it's time something was done about the obvious trolls that are just posting crap.

Anyone with a name like 'big ba*tard' is clearly here for one reason only, and that's to disrupt the board.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Has anyone touched on the subject of when people use their connection most?

If NTL decide to introduce hard caps, wouldn't people be using their connections most in the evening when they can be infront of the PC and carefully watching the amount they download?

Wouldn't that have a noticeable impact on other users?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Mines on most of the day but only really gets used on an evening for a few hours quake 3 freezetag :D :D :D plus whatever the rest of the family do .

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Well you could give him a red rep but frankly I don't see how that will help.You could try the ignore option too.Or you can unsubscribe from this thread.

I'm getting near to the unsubscribe option myself because I'm finding this thread rather tedious at present.We are just going round in circles and some exchanges have gone beyond heated...to downright rude.. :(

Incog.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Here here.. Someone else who realises what this 'cap' is all about. Milking a few more pounds out of the service. Who will see the benefits - Shareholders and the boses who will get yet another bumper bonus.

To all those who state that as average user usage increases companies such as NTL will re-evaluate their caps. Yes right. Once the caps are in place they will stay. We will end up paying a standing charge, which includes X GBs, and then pay per GB over that.

IMO caps are the thin end of the wedge which will allow ISPs to milk their service over time and turn it into another PaYG system.

And to those saying its consumer choice to move ISPs. Yes it is. Pity it's such a ball ache moving from NTL to an alternate ISP. Get a BT line installed. Get Sky installed. Get the BT tested for DSL use (and your stuffed if it fails). Get DSL. Once your on DSL then switching is a breeze but getting there is a major pain.

I hope the rumours I heard recently about Cable operators being forced to open their networks for competitors to use was more than a rumour as then switching ISPs would be far easier.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I disagree with them. :wavey:

I'm all for caps - I like my service nice and fast, without the 24 x 7 bandwidth hogs who feel the need to download the entire internet each month. Caps are the obvious way to limit such people - and if it drives them away from ntl then even better. :D
__________________

Well passing lightly over the fact that you have no proof that anybody's internet connection has been degraded by other users downloading 24 x 7, this attitude is utterly astonishing. The only possible excuse for you is a vested interest in ntl's profits.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Yes, there will be more users online during the peak evening and weekend times but a lot depends on how they are using their connection. Just because a user has the 3Mb service doesn't mean that he HAS to max that out all the time he is sat at his computer and continue doing this for the rest of the day when he is nowhere near it. Most users will not be maxing out at all. "What's the point in having 3Mb if you're not going to use it" some will answer. There can be many reasons for having 3Mb other than having to max it out all the time but the blinkers some high users have on prevent them from seeing this. It could be that some deterioration in speed is seen, but that is contention coming into force and it is contention that keeps prices so low. If you have a 3Mb connection you will get the full 3Mb if the sites you are visiting can give you it that fast and the route between you can do the same. You will not be able to get the full 3Mb if there are many users on your UBR at the same time as you and they are mostly trying to get the full speed of their connection. It is the same with ADSL where BT state that with 8Mb you may only get 2Mb at peak times.

There is an assumption from some users that if they have a 3Mb connection or whatever speed they are on, that they should get this speed all the time. This is not guaranteed by any ISP and the likelihood is that the faster speeds become, the less they are able to get the full speed of the connection.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

"There can be many reasons for having 3Mb other than having to max it out all the time but the blinkers some high users have on prevent them from seeing this."

List these many reasons.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

But you can hit the cap on a 3mb connection is around 60ish minutes, what i dont understand is that if what most people are saying on here is that the majority of servers on the internet cannot handle multiple connections at high speed due to their bandwidth restrictions, then whats the point of a 3mb tier ?, I dont gain anything other that hitting a cap set far too low for a 3mb connection, the argument you can surf faster is cr*p, what difference does it make surfing at 2mb over 3mb sod all as far as i can see...the only reason for a 3mb tier is for downloading nothing else and if its restricted whats the point ?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Yeah, that's right, I have a vested interest in ntl's profits :rolleyes: next you'll be saying they pay me :dozey:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

So if you haven't, why are you "all for caps"? What possible reason could you have for wanting a capped service?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Time for one thing is very precious to many people. I am on the lowest tier because that is sufficient for my normal needs. I have switched to the highest on a couple of occasions, once to quickly upload something where time was of the essence. Some people like to download a big file fast and then get on with the thing they needed that file for. If you want to download something that takes an hour on a 1Mb connection and you only have half an hour to do it in then the only option is to get a faster connection.

I don't subscribe to the idea that you need only have a connection that is just fast enough to download your daily needs in 24 hours. neither do I subscribe to the idea that you have to max out your connection all of the time and certainly not 24/7.

I could give you many reasons but why should I? It doesn't take much imagination to think of reasons for having a fast connection and not using it at the max 24/7.
__________________

Read through this thread again and you will probably find the answer. :) :)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Read back and you will see - I'm not repeating myself yet again. :zzz:
__________________

Hmm, lets see, why would I want a faster connection ? - oh, I know, because it's faster. :dozey:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I am interested in the tech side of things what can ntl do about bandwidth to improve the situation some tests are being run on adsl 2 which could mean 20 meg connections next year then if its not messed up theres vdsl which could offer 40 meg.I think a mistake was made a long time ago im not sure what the mistake was as i dont know enough about ntl and cable to know but i know 20 meg is available in france with no cap and 100 meg in japan the write up was in a resent micromart about how we in the uk are falling behind,so to reiterate my question what can ntl do to change the situation and create a speed comparable to what adsl2 at least and bandwidth broadening to allow for higher caps,Im only asking out of interest without moaning whining or having a go at someonelol lol lol http://www.nwfusion.com/news/tech/20...echupdate.html adsl2 link

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

So your answer for wanting a faster connection is time is precious to many people? Are you serious? You think people want a 3Mb connection as opposed to a 1Mb connection due to time constraints? Why should you give me many reasons? Because you said that there were many and I asked you to give them.

I could read through this thread all night without seeing a reason for people actually desiring caps. Are you saying you would prefer a capped service to an uncapped one given the choice?

Yes Paul, you want a faster connection because it's faster. Well that showed me, what a cracking agruement!

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Yes I am serious. Just because I said there were many reasons doesn't mean that I HAVE to give you them. Even if I did you would say that they were all rubbish just as you have with the time constraint reasoning so why should I bother.

Given a choice I would prefer an uncapped service in an ideal world. The problem is that we are not living in an ideal world when you have people arguing because they can't max out their connections 24/7. There have been many reasons given in this thread for wanting caps but blinkers mean that anything contrary to your ideas are not valid.

Tell me something? If NTL were to start charging broadband customers the exact cost of providing it to them would you have any objection to paying that amount. That is the cost of maintaining your account and the cost of the bandwidth you yourself use without making a penny profit for themselves.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I certainly wouldn't say they were all rubbish unless they were. I didn't say you have to give them to me, but seeing as you've stated there are many reasons I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask for some of them.

Ok fair enough, I just wanted you to be clear that you would prefer an uncapped service. Blinkers mean that anything contrary to your ideas are not valid? Pot, kettle?

No not at all, I'm sure I would pay less under those terms. That's not the point though is it? It's the thin end of the wedge and I disagree with it on principle. Unlike you I don't care how much money ntl make I just want the best deal I can get for myself.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Maybe they are milking those extra pounds to help pay for some of the upgrades the network needs?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

That's the problem, we all have our own ideas of what is rubbish and having seen your definition it would be pointless giving any reasons.

Blinkers mean that you are unwilling to change your views even if someone proves you are wrong.

I dont' know how you can be sure that you would pay less as you have no idea of the true costs involved and I couldn't say as I don't know your usage.

I don't care how much money NTL make as long as they make enough to maintain and upgrade the networks. We all like to have the best deal and my view is that we aren't getting the best deal as long as 5% of broadband customers are using over 50% of its bandwidth. These 5% are costing NTL and ultimately all its customers to pay more than they need.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Well don't make statements if you're not prepared to back them up.

Hmmm.

I use between 2 and 3 GB per month.

Where are you getting these satistics from?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I did give you one reason which you refused to accept that anyone would do that so it seems pointless to give any more.

Statistics came from the same place as when you previously asked http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...postcount=1271 and have appeared in many news articles and posted about on here by members such as Ignition who works for NTL and has all the usage stats at his fingertips.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

So because I don't agree with your one reason from many (your words, not mine) you refuse to give any more?

Well I asked where Ignition got his facts from and he didn't reply.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

If you had been a member for any length of time you would know a lot more about Ignition and accept his knowledge on the things he talks about. Try Googling for the facts yourself if you still cannot accept the figures.

A few more then.

They have 3Mb because they can afford it.

They want the fastest in everything.

There are some apps that need high bandwidth that they use at odd times now and again.

They need the upload speed and aren't too bothered about the download speed.

They have 3 computers networked which at odd rare times need the 3Mb.

You seem to forget that most broadband customers only use their connection for a few hours daily and are not tied to it 24/7.

Now tell me why any of those are not reasons for having the fastest tier available.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Well I don't dispute that Ignition may have a lot of knowledge, I'd just like to see that backed up becuase franky all I've seen from you is bull****.

Your first two reasons I agree with, the second two are nonsense, the fifth one is completely contrary to what all the pro-cap people are claiming (i.e. if you have 3 computers networked you should pay for it), and your sixth one is complete and utter rubbish.
__________________

And I'm going to bed!

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Well that's nice, so everything that Ian has posted is BS and according to you no-one would get the 3Mb service so that they had a good upload speed? Strange that since there are a number of people on this forum that use their connections to download and upload files to servers for work, who run forums/ websites and therefore have to maintain the files related to those and there are those people that work with digital images who need to upload their files for printing/ display.
As to your opinion that the 6th reason is utter rubbish, there are many people who are on the lowest tier of service as all they do is occassional browsing because they have the service for email purposes. These people will rarely touch their usage cap and will probably not even understand that other users seem to feel the need to download every last file available on the internet just because they have a 3Mb connection.
There would probably be a few people here that would view all your posts as BS and rubbish, are they right and you wrong?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Absolutely don't accept what I say as gospel I'm as likely to be misinformed or just plain get it wrong as anyone else.

When I have more time will go back through this thread and find what I was asked to provide proof for, and will do so as far as possible within the restrictions of NDA.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

That won't ever happen.

The reason BT is forced to open its networks to competitors is because it has a monopoly, and its network was built with taxpayers money.

ntl's network was built with private money. The people who stumped up the cash are entitled to try and get some return on that investment. Why should they then see that investment capability undermined by being forced to allow competitiors to use it to undercut their own prices?

To do this ntl would have to paid hundreds of millions of pounds, if not billions of pounds, in compensation, and that money would have to come from the taxpayer, which as a taxpayer myself I'd object to vehemntly.

See, this is just yet another example of people who don't understand even the simplest basics of the market making pronouncements about it.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

While this thread has provided some great heated debate, some statistics, and a fair bit of resentment, i think it's pretty worn out. :(
There's those in favour of a cap [each to their own] those who think its totally wrong, [cant say i disagree] and a very few who think a caps not totally unreasonable, just that the size of this ones pathetic [and your right as well].
There's no point closing it, its bound to re-emerge, its a shame none of this gets read by the people at ntl that actually put things like this into force.
And even if it was, how many firms have the courage to say "we got this one wrong"? I bet you can count them on the finger of one finger. :)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Milking a few more pounds out of a commercial product. Yes, isn't that disgraceful in a free market economy, especially for a company that makes no profit at the moment. :rolleyes:

People criticise ntl for not marketing their products in such a way that they could actually make some money and thus invest in the network, then when they try they are criticised for that too. DAMNED IF THEY DO, DAMNED IF THEY DON'T.
__________________

I'm NOT in favour of caps. But, as happened with unmetered dialup services, the morons who max out their connections 'just because they can' have spoiled it for the rest of us.

The reason other European countries are less tightly capped than the UK is because they don't have as many people who act like morons.

In Germany you get many cafes that allow 'unlimited topups' on drinks and sometimes even food. The Germans take what they need and are happy. In the UK it wouldn't work as too many people would cram their plates with hundreds of portions that they don't need and run off with it. That's our moronic mentality and we get what we deserve as a result.

Pizza Hut proved this theory when they introduced their 'all you can eat' deal in the UK. It had to be scrapped through the sheer greed of people taking far too much, more than they could ever it, and then it getting thrown in the bin. Yet it works for them in almost every other country they do it in...except the tourist areas of Spain of course where there's loads of Britons.

Expect several people to reply to this saying 'if such a company offers that they should expect it' which proves the concept 100%.

As with so many other walks of life, we get precisely what we deserve in this country because too many of us are greedy, selfish morons. :(

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Dammit, stop making so much sense. People will begin to think you don't actually work for Ntl :)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I'm thinking of going for the upgrade from 300k to 1meg and cap be damned, i dont think ill ever hit the cap but i'm betting in NTL figuring out that just raising everyone to 2meg as the base will save money in the long run as they can stop looking for all those 1megers going over the cap and having to harass them to upgrade
__________________

by the way - is the cap going to be a rolling total or is it going to be reset every month

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I think that your response illustrates quite well the futility of trying to reason with you.

So, nobody uses any apps that need high bandwidth that they use at odd times now and again. Do you know what every user does with their connection and what apps they use?

Is it nonsense to say that some users need the upload speed and aren't too bothered about the download speed. There are many on here that would disagree with that. What about gamers who want to host games? What about people that want to upload many pictures or videos quite regularly but don't want to download verymuch at all. Don't these people exist?

Why is having 3 computers networked which at odd rare times need the 3Mb contrary to what the pro-cap people are saying. There are many people with more than one computer networked that have a usage level below the caps. My brother has three computers networked which are often all used at the same time but the kids are limited in the time they are allowed to spend at their computers and this is nothing to do with capping. I still stand by the idea that having more than one computer connected is no reason for having a larger cap and that such usage should cost more if they are using more bandwidth than a single user.

So you think that saying most broadband customers only use their connection for a few hours daily and are not tied to it 24/7 is complete and utter rubbish. I think that you must be living in cloud cuckoo land.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

As a silver surfer who is trying hard to understand this Capping issue, i listen to internet radio a lot so what does 1g per day relate to with things like that?

NTL Blocked DOCSDIAG
 

Well apparently ntl have blocked programs like DocsDiag from seeing just how under utilised their network is. ntl no longer permit SNMP access to the ISP-side addresses of cable modems, so the -traffic facility of DocsDiag will no longer work.

The upshot is that if ntl say that a customer is degrading the network due to excessive use then that customer no longer has any way of defending themselves.....except maybe if a customer is accused of downloading at 100% line speed for hours on end this in itself could be used as proof that the network is not congested otherwise how would they be able to consistently manage 100% usage on a contended network? ;)

Just thinking out loud.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Why not just install a bandwidth monitoring program like NetMeter, and you can see how much you use each day.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

You would have to listen to most internet radio stations for 24hours a day to go over 1GB. If all you're doing is surfing, email and a bit of internet radio then you've got nothing to worry about.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

its proibably all bluff and bluster anyway - how many people did ntl contact about going over the previous cap?
that said - the trend seems to be to increase speed while lowering the amount of data you can transfer - anybody like to extrapolate how long before were all on 25meg connections with a 1.44 megabyte per mont cap? no contested areas then i guess

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

You need to calm down Bill :Peaceman:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.